The turning point

[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

In the 18th chapter of the Gita, Sri Krishna asks Arjuna to

drop all considerations about Dharma and surrender Him alone

(sarva dharma parityajya maamekam saranam vraja). How is one

allowed to drop Dharma ?

 

A question to that effect was posted in philist a

few days back.

 

During the course of the spiritual life, there are two phases,

which are clearly perceptible in several cases. The philosophy

of life takes a radical turn at the juncture.

 

Before the "turning point", the person considers himself as the

doer and the Lord as the bestower of the fruits of action -

karma phaladaataa. The person strongly feels his freewill. All

ethical considerations are to be held with great diligence. God

is seen as the transcendant Being. If the person is an atheist,

he feels that it is the law of cause and effect which reigns.

 

At the "turning point", the person sees only One. There is no

doer and no deed. There is no world. The beauty is that there

is no mind to "see" this "point", but an after-effect lingers.

 

After the "turning point", one thing which is clearly seen is

that the person does not have any doubt about any spiritual

matters. He is able to answer any question put to him from a

deep memory of an unknown experience. The person feels that

it is God who has become everything and that God is doer of

all actions. If the person is an atheist, he feels that

things appear to happen spontaneously without any specific

cause.

 

Arjuna faced the "turning point" when he had the Vishvarupa

darshana. So the rules to be applied after that are different.

After the experience of the Lord or the Absolute, basic concepts

like cause-and-effect, freewill, space, time and individuality

drop off. It is after the "turning point" that all considerations

of dharma can be dropped.

 

This "turning point" is a point of no return. Even though the

person might apparently be involved in all worldly activities,

as Sri Krishna says, it is the Gunas which interact with each

other. The person has no sense of doership at all. He is

always fully aware that the world and its objects are mere

concepts. He is fully aware that the Pure Consciousness alone

is real.

 

Sri Ramakrishna gives a nice example. There is a pillow. A

person does not know what is in the pillow. One day he opens

the pillow and sees what is in. Then he stitches it back as

it was before. He may continue to use the pillow as before, but

there is a difference. What the pillow is made of is no longer

unknown. There is still another state where the person gets a

capacity to see through the cover of the pillow. The pillow

becomes transparent. He sees the pillow and what is inside too.

 

Maya, which is the basic phenomenon by which we see pure

Consciousness as the world, has two faculties - veiling (tamas)

and projection (rajas). In deep sleep rajas is not there, but

tamas is there. So there is no perception of the world, but

there is no intutive awareness of Consciousness. In dream and

waking states, both tamas and rajas are present. This leads

to the perception of objects but not the awareness of

Consciousness. In Savikalpa samadhi, the tamas drops off. So

though objects are seen, the person is aware of their real

nature also. In Nirvikalpa samadhi, both the tamas and rajas

drop off. The experience cannot be described by the tools of

the mind, because it is beyond the mind.

 

After the "turning point", the person is either in Savikalpa

samadhi or Nirvikalpa samadhi. Once a devotee asked Sri Ramana

Maharshi if he was in Savikalpa samadhi or Nirvikalpa samadhi.

He replied that when his eyes were open, he was in Savikalpa

samadhi and when his eyes were closed, he was in Nirvikalpa

samadhi. What he meant was that when he perceived objects, he

was in Savikalpa samadhi and when he did not perceive objects,

he was in Nirvikalpa samadhi.

 

I hope that makes it clear, though there was a diversion.

 

With love,

Gomu.

 

=====

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[Guest guest]

advaitin , Gokulmuthu Narayanaswamy

<gokulmuthu> wrote:

> After the "turning point", the person is either in Savikalpa

> samadhi or Nirvikalpa samadhi. Once a devotee asked Sri Ramana

> Maharshi if he was in Savikalpa samadhi or Nirvikalpa samadhi.

> He replied that when his eyes were open, he was in Savikalpa

> samadhi and when his eyes were closed, he was in Nirvikalpa

> samadhi. What he meant was that when he perceived objects, he

> was in Savikalpa samadhi and when he did not perceive objects,

> he was in Nirvikalpa samadhi.

>

> I hope that makes it clear, though there was a diversion.

>

> With love,

> Gomu.

 

 

Hi. I would like to ask everyone if they can explain what these two

samadhis are like? Are they related to nirguna & saguna?

 

Peace,

 

Col

>

[Guest guest]

The "Sarva Vedanta Siddhanta Sara Sangrah" by Acharya Sankara is a

compendium and a precise restatement of all that has been thought of

and set down about the Self from a purely philosophical view point.

The compendium contains 1006 Sanskrit verses. The translation of

these verses was originally by Swami Tattwananda and later revised by

Swami Jagadananda of the Ramakrishna Mission with a view to make it

simpler for the general public. Verses 819 to 826 discuss the

distinction between relative and absolute Samadhi.

 

==================================================

Samadhi relative and absolute

 

819. There are, two kinds of samadhi. Of them, one is known as the

savikalpa samadhi. It represents deep concentration at the relative

plane. The other is the nirvikalpa samadhi which is at the absolute

plane of consciousness. We shall now describe the nature of,

savikalpa samadhi; listen attentively.

 

820. in the relative plane of consciousness, one is aware of

Brahman as permeating the whole of one's field of consciousness. In

as much as one has yet to establish complete identity with that which

one contemplates, it is called 'relative'.

 

821. A clay elephant reminds us of a living one, even though it is

only clay. In the same way, the apparent distinction of the knower,

the known and the knowledge of it, although unreal, yet helps one to

realize the ultimate Truth; and such is the nature Savikalpa samadhi.

 

822. It is called `samadhi' because' it is helpful in leading to the

transcendent Reality. It is called 'savikalpa' which means 'subject

to modification,' because there still linger the threefold

modifications of the knower, knowing and the known.

 

823. That stage of awareness is known as the nirvikalpa samadhi, in

which, after having cast off the idea that one is the knower, one is

firmly established in that on which one contemplates.

 

824. It is as though the salt that has been thrown into water hits

lost its separateness, and remains in the form of water only.

 

825. When our individuality merges in the absolute 'Brahman' from

which it has emerged, it loses its sense separateness; and all that

remains is the one nondual Brahman. (Individuality depends upon the

modifications of the mind such as the idea 'I am Brahman'.)

 

826. on account of the absence of the knowledge of the knower and the

like, this type of deep concentration is referred to as the

'absolute'.

It is the presence or the absence of the mental modifications that

distinguishes the savikalpa from the nirvikalpa samadhi.

 

advaitin , colette@b... wrote:

> Hi. I would like to ask everyone if they can explain what these two

> samadhis are like? Are they related to nirguna & saguna?

>

> Peace,

>

> Col

>

> >

[Guest guest]

On 11/29/00 at 1:27 PM colette wrote:

 

[...]

ºHi. I would like to ask everyone if they can explain what these two

ºsamadhis are like? Are they related to nirguna & saguna?

º

ºPeace,

º

ºCol

 

There can't be a "proper" explanation but to give an idea, with the eyes opened,

seeing, hearing, talking, walking, all these are happening without any awareness

of "I", "you" or "world": awareness is perceiver, perceiving and perceived, as

well as responder, responding and that, responded to. With the eyes closed,

awareness is Self-awareness. Yet, one cannot say there is any distinction

whether the eyes are closed or not. But there is something, "left out of the

picture": the potential enabling to close or to open the eyes. This will

disappear at physical death but it only means "eyes closed".

 

Love,

Jan