Gita Satsang - Chap 1

November 28, 2000

Hello. I would like to join in discussion too (lightly ~ leaving

myself open).

advaitin , "sunder hattangadi" <sunderh@h...> wrote:

> Namaste,

>

> Chapter 1: Arjuna's Distress

>

> Arjuna requested Krishna to move the chariot to the centre of the

> battlefield so that he could view the rival forces.

I just want to acknowledge this word "centre".

Recently I have been exploring the circle & the cross & the square. It

seems to me that being in the center allows first of all witnessing.

Attachment may still be there at first.

> Krishna drove the chariot forward and Arjuna saw his kith and kin,

> his uncles, granduncles, teachers, maternal uncles, cousins, sons

and

> grandsons and friends and well-wishers facing him. He was overcome

> with compassion.

I also notice that it is divine which drives Arjuna inward to the

center. Arjuna has asked though?

Without divine help we could not make the journey.

>

> Arjuna was trembling. His gandiva, the bow given to him by one of

the

> gods, slipped from his hands. He was shaking with grief born of

> conflict between the demands of the heart and the mind.

I know about this one! I would just like to share what Maharishi says

about this because it helped me when I needed it.

I realise that this opportunity of revisiting Gita will be very good

for me & I will dive into Maharishi's & Yogananda's translations, &

everyone else's sharings too .. Hope no one minds. I am exploring

myself.

Verse 28 Chapter One

Possessed by extreme compassion, spoke this in grief:

Seeing these my kinsmen, O Krishna, gathered eager to fight,

"Within man there is mind & there is heart. These, by their very

existence as two, hold the possibility of suffering. When they are

united, when there is harmony between a heart & mind full of

righteousness & noble inspiration, suffering cannot arise. But when

there is a lack of coordination or a conflict between them, suffering

automatically results. Arjuna's 'grief' is born of the basic

difference between the heart & the mind.

Religious scriptures prescribe a mode of conduct to save man from

falling into error & suffering. They induce man to do good & to spurn

evil.

The Bhagavad Gita, the scripture of the eternal religion of

realization, in its diagnosis of suffering is not satisfied by the

rejection of evil or the acceptance of virtue alone; it finds that

suffering can result even from two good qualities. For a life to be

free from suffering, it is not enough for heart & mind to be free from

the stain of sin & established in righteousness.

The Bhagavad Gita undertakes to solve the problem of suffering

completely. It locates the ultimate cause of suffering & provides a

means to eliminate it. The seed of suffering in life is located in the

duality inherent in the characteristic difference between the

qualities of heart & mind. The Bhagavad Gita therefore takes Arjuna,

already most noble, sinless & most highly developed in both heart &

mind, & sets him down in an environment which further stimulates his

heart & his mind. As both continue to grow more active in their

respective domains, the basic difference in their structure becomes

greater. When heart & mind are both at their best, each is full in

itself & is no longer concerned with the other; there is no link left

between them. The heart, fully saturated withg love, naturally becomes

sufficient unto itself & oblivious to the decisions of the mind.

Likewise, the mind becomes oblivious to the cry of the heart.

Separately they are each in a state of fulfilment. But because there

is no communication between them, both cease to contribute to activity

in life. That is why Arjuna is in a state of suspension without

activity.

Activity starts with the flow of desire. When the heart feels the lack

of something & the mind responds to it, or when the mind feels the

lack & the heart responds, then a stream of desire arises from between

them & flows towards the object in view, engaging different faculties

of heart, mind & body as well as the available material in the

surroundings. This makes it clear that communication between heart &

mind must exist for desire to arise. And if the flow of desire is in

the direction of the natural current of evolution, it is further

supported by the invisible influence of nature & will find fulfilment.

Arjuna is in a state where the mind & heart are held high in the

fullness of their respective qualities with no link between them. In

the fullness of heart & mind, where both are contented in themselves,

neither feels the lack of anything, & hence there exists no room for

desire to arise. Absence of desire leaves Arjuna in a state of

suspension in which the entire personality loses its dymanic structure

& is faced with seemingly insuperable problems whenever the need for

action arises in any sphere of life.

Thus the Bhagavad Gita portrays a situation in which life can be full

of problems even when it is established in fulfilment of heart & mind.

By resolving such an extreme situation, it brings to light the wisdom

& technique of living life without suffering on any level. It

establishes that life must be without suffering . No one should ever

suffer in life: this is the teaching of the Bhagavad Gita.

Duality is the fundamental cause of suffering. But when the entire

field of life is dual in nature, how can life be free from suffering?

This has always been a serious problem of metaphysics & indeed of

practical life as well. The solution lies in the infusion into the

field of duality of a non-dual element which blesses man's life with a

status unaffected by suffering, even while he remains in the field

while suffering is possible."

Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

He was torn

> between love and duty, his heart full of love for his relations and

> his mind ringing with the call of duty.

"No one should ever suffer in life"

Now if I was gonna be cheeky I'd say that zero point is no one &

nothing:-) (impersonal) Is singular point in the center This?

Just playing,

Peace,

Colette

November 28, 2000

Greetings Coletteji:

I am delighted to see you posting with translations and profound

commentaries from Maharishi and Paramhansa Yoganand. Sunderji and

Madhavaji are looking forward to your active participation (and also

participation from every member of this list) in Gita Satsang.

Warmest regards,

Ram Chandran

advaitin , colette@b... wrote:

> Hello. I would like to join in discussion too (lightly ~ leaving

> myself open).

> .............>

> Just playing,

>

> Peace,

>

> Colette

November 28, 2000

Namaste,

A few thoughts on some of the statements:

>

> Activity starts with the flow of desire. When the heart feels the

lack

> of something & the mind responds to it, or when the mind feels the

> lack & the heart responds, then a stream of desire arises from

between

> them & flows towards the object in view, engaging different

faculties

> of heart, mind & body as well as the available material in the

> surroundings. This makes it clear that communication between heart

&

> mind must exist for desire to arise. And if the flow of desire is

in the direction of the natural current of evolution, it is further

> supported by the invisible influence of nature & will find

fulfilment.

****This may not be necessarily so. We do act when we are full of

joy; the Infinite is said to be nothing but joy, and the Tandava

Dance of Nataraja

is the prototype of a joyous activity.

> Duality is the fundamental cause of suffering.

****This is well-said indeed.

>

> He was torn

> > between love and duty, his heart full of love for his relations

and

> > his mind ringing with the call of duty.

****The 'love' for the relatives was an 'attachment' which over-rode

the love for duty or DHARMA; the warrior's duty is to defend dharma

at the cost of life even. So this false dichotomy had to be repaired.

***Going into the etymology of the word 'vishhaada', is an

interesting exercise also. The root verb 'sad' has one of its

meanings as 'to sit in despair.'

The prefix 'vi' is indicative of separation.

The word vishhaada is formed from vi + sad, sitting despondently due

to separation. [sad changes to shhad].

In Gita Ch.6, verse 23 is given one of the definitions of yoga:

......duHkha sa.nyoga viyoga.n yoga sa.nj~nitam.h .

severance from union with pain is called Yoga.

The realization of 'advaita' can be the only solution, and 'saayujya

mukti', liberation through absolute unity, the only true freedom.

Regards,

s.

>

> "No one should ever suffer in life"

November 28, 2000

advaitin , "sunder hattangadi" <sunderh@h...> wrote:

> Namaste,

>

> A few thoughts on some of the statements:

It feels good to have what I share embraced & discussed, thanks Ram &

sunder.

> > Activity starts with the flow of desire. When the heart feels the

> lack

> > of something & the mind responds to it, or when the mind feels the

> > lack & the heart responds, then a stream of desire arises from

> between

> > them & flows towards the object in view, engaging different

> faculties

> > of heart, mind & body as well as the available material in the

> > surroundings. This makes it clear that communication between heart

> &

> > mind must exist for desire to arise. And if the flow of desire is

> in the direction of the natural current of evolution, it is further

> > supported by the invisible influence of nature & will find

> fulfilment.

>

> ****This may not be necessarily so. We do act when we are full of

> joy; the Infinite is said to be nothing but joy, and the Tandava

> Dance of Nataraja

> is the prototype of a joyous activity.

Yes the statement is one I find difficult to understand myself.

At a stretch I might try getting awfully abstract & implying that

perhaps a state of fulfilment may be beyond joy. The impersonal

fullness of sunya?

In That there is no activity. So full nothing (no attributes).

Yet this same unified conscious field of Being, also manifests through

moving (actively) .. waves of consciousness dance in motion on a

unified ocean (Nataraja). This indicates to me that desire to act &

experience can come direct from Nature (not just the conditioned

persona).

> The realization of 'advaita' can be the only solution, and 'saayujya

> mukti', liberation through absolute unity, the only true freedom.

>

Well said. Thanks for sharing.

:-)

Colette

>

> Regards,

>

> s.

>

> > "No one should ever suffer in life"

November 28, 2000

Namaste

Paramahamsa Yogananda's alternative commentary on the Gita is simply

refreshing and leans more towards the need of practising Kriya Yoga for

one's moksha. I found it to be immensely interesting while studying it.

Perhaps, Coletteji can provide us glimpses of the great Yogi's thoughts on

the Gita. Regards.

Kathi

>

> Ram Chandran [sMTP:rchandran]

> Wednesday, November 29, 2000 5:53 AM

> advaitin

> Re: Gita Satsang - Chap 1

>

> Greetings Coletteji:

>

> I am delighted to see you posting with translations and profound

> commentaries from Maharishi and Paramhansa Yoganand. Sunderji and

> Madhavaji are looking forward to your active participation (and also

> participation from every member of this list) in Gita Satsang.

>

> Warmest regards,

>

> Ram Chandran

>

> advaitin , colette@b... wrote:

> > Hello. I would like to join in discussion too (lightly ~ leaving

> > myself open).

> > .............>

>

> > Just playing,

> >

> > Peace,

> >

> > Colette

>

> Discussion of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of

> Atman and Brahman.

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November 29, 2000

Namaste,

advaitin , colette@b... wrote:

>

> Yes the statement is one I find difficult to understand myself.

>

> At a stretch I might try getting awfully abstract & implying that

> perhaps a state of fulfilment may be beyond joy. The impersonal

> fullness of sunya?

>

> In That there is no activity. So full nothing (no attributes).

****That is also known as LOVE, or 'paraa bhakti'. This may be the

only 'spiritual law' that the Spirit cannot bend or change!

Three classic examples are given:

"Walk one step towards Me, and I shall walk ten towards you".

The flow of milk doubles when the calf suckles at the udders.

The Spirit gives the devotee the pride to say:"Oh God! You pervade

the whole universe; but you make me greater than you because I can

hold the whole of you in my tiny heart!"

Regards,

s.

November 29, 2000

Namaste Sunderji:

advaitin , "sunder hattangadi" <sunderh@h...> wrote:

> Namaste,

> ......

> The flow of milk doubles when the calf suckles at the udders.

Your beautiful example is quite relevant in the context of Gita. The

famous Sanskrit verse in Gita Dhyana Slokas, likens these Upanishads

to a cow and the Gita becomes the cow's milk:

sarvapanisadogavah, dogha gopala-nandanah

parthovatsah sudhibhokta dughdham gitamrtam mahat.

The Gita, the milk, is milked by Lord Krishna himself, who is

presented as an avatar of the Lord in the Mahabharata and in the

Bhagavata. He is the one who is teaching the Gita to Arjuna. Arjuna

serves as the calf to whom the milk, the message of the Gita, is

given. All of us who read the Gita are also like the calf, the more we

read, we get more and this flow of milk (messages) will never stop!

warmest regards,

Ram Chandran

>

> The Spirit gives the devotee the pride to say:"Oh God! You pervade

> the whole universe; but you make me greater than you because I can

> hold the whole of you in my tiny heart!"

> Regards,

>

> s.

December 1, 2000

In a message dated 12/1/00 6:59:43 AM Pacific Standard Time,

sada writes:

<< Hai KrishhNa, you! who is so powerful and who could destroy so many

demons single handedly including Kamsa, using all your force tried to

get out of my embrace and stand aside as if you have accomplished a

great thing! Are you really that strong! Let me see how strong you

are! I have locked you up in my heart permanently. If you are

really strong, now try to get out of my heart! - Obviously Krishna

cannot! That is the love of God! In your bondage He gets bound!

Swami Tejomayanandaji used to tell us - we should have one hand above

his feet holding him and one hand below his feet - so that He cannot

run away from us and we can not run away from Him >>

***********************8

Dear Sadanandaji

Jai Sri Krishna, Thank you for sharign above topics of Bhakti.

Here I would like add some saying of Vritrasur from Bhagbatam.

Raghabananda.

Aham Hare taba padaikamuladasanudaso bhavatasmi bhuyo..........24-27(book

6/11)

(Turning mentally towards the Lord),

May I, O Hari, be born again (after death) as a servant of those devotees who

have solely taken refuge in your lotus feet.

Let my mind ponder and tongue celebrate the excellences of the Lord of my

life (yourself) and let my body do your service (alone). (24)

O Storehouse of all blessedness and grace ! without you I crave neither the

abode of Dhruva (which is placed above Indra's paradise) nor even the realm

of Brahma (the highest heaven) nor the sovereignty of the entire globe nor

the lordship of the subterranean regions nor the (superhuman) powers (Anima

and so on) attained through Yoga nor Liberation (freedom from rebirth). (25)

Even as unfledged birds (left behid in their nest) are eager to see the

mother bird, young calves tormented with hunger (and kept away from the

mother cow) seek the milk (of its udders) and a beloved wife depressed in

spirits (due to desolation) longs to see her beloved husband, absent from

home, my mind, O lotus-eyed one, is keen to behold you.(26)

Let there be my friendship with the devotees of the Lord of excellent renown,

revolving as I do in the whirligig of transmigration due to my own deeds. And

let him whose mind is attached through your Maya (deluding potency), to his

body, offspring, wife and home, O Lord, have no friendship with me. (27)

Radhe Radhe Govinda Govinda Radhe. ....

December 1, 2000

>advaitin , colette@b... wrote:

>

>****That is also known as LOVE, or 'paraa bhakti'. This may be the

>only 'spiritual law' that the Spirit cannot bend or change!

>

>The Spirit gives the devotee the pride to say:"Oh God! You pervade

>the whole universe; but you make me greater than you because I can

>hold the whole of you in my tiny heart!"

>Regards,

>

>s.

This reminds me an interesting episode of a Gopi with Krishna that I

read somewhere.

A gopi, out of her abundant love holds on Lord Krishna in her

embrace. Krishna just to tease her gets out her embrace and stands

apart with his characteristic smile - with the look - see you can not

hold me imprisoned in your embrace!

Gopi out of anger with love challenges Krishna!

hastamuchchipya vyaapnoti balaat krishhNa kim adbhutam|

hR^idayadyasi nirvaasi gaNayaami paurushante||

(not sure of reference nor its correct version - anushhTup seems to be O.K.)

Hai KrishhNa, you! who is so powerful and who could destroy so many