Guest guest Posted December 9, 2000 Report Share Posted December 9, 2000 Swaminarayan T wrote: > > Dear Dennis, > > There indeed is no need to be mystified! > > Do not the Vedas proclaim: " Satyam gyaanam Anantham > Brahma "."Ayam Atma Brahma" and "Aham Brahmaasmi"? > > Ashtavakra in his Gita gives us the following food for > thought: hariH OM! swamiji- yes, astavakra samhita, in its last chapter, I AM SIVA!, is imo the essence of ajatavada method of advaita vedanta, the most powerful destroyer of the philosophical Mind... likened to a zen koan sutra.. formidable peacemaker! :-) namaste, frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2000 Report Share Posted December 10, 2000 Dennis Waite [dwaite] In the same way, once realisation is attained, the scripture is no longer needed. If realisation has indeed taken place in a particular body-mind mechanism, where is the need to go to the Vedas or any other pramaaNa for verification? Surely only the ego could want to check to see if the ‘state’ experienced corresponds with a description given in the Vedas? If there is genuine realisation, there would no longer be any ego or state. There can be no need to go and look to check in which direction the finger is pointing if he is now looking directly at the moon himself. Dennis ____________ Well put Dennis and you raise an important issue and I will pass this on to HarshaSatsanga as well. Confirmation is relevant for those who are in the "in-between" stage. We can see this in the conversation between Sri Ramana and Kunju Swami. When Kunju Swami experienced the Self in the presence of the Sage, he was satisfied and went home. He was, however, unable to become steady in his knowledge. Upon going back to Arunachala, he asked to have his doubts clarified. I believe Sri Ramana asked Kunju Swami to get the scripture "Kaivalya Navneeta" from the shelf and read a particular verse which means that the experience of the Self, even when gained once, can be lost due to the strength of vasanas (latent tendencies). To steady oneself in the Supreme Knowledge one has to hear the truth again and again from the Guru and reflect on it and remain aware of it holding on to it. When the vasanas have substantially thinned out, Self-Awareness dominates and no room is left for doubt, thoughts, questions, etc. As Ramana Maharshi has stated again and again, while Kevala Nirvikalpa Samadhi gives Direct Knowledge in Total Clarity of The Self, the latent tendencies will at times appear to draw the mind of the Yogi out again. Therefore, the Sage of Arunachala has said that the aim should be to become aware fundamentally of one's true primal state. This is the easy and natural state our sages refer to as Sahaj Samadhi. Here the question of the mind being drawn out of its source does not exist at all and therefore all talk about confirmation of Self etc., is moot. Self is the Self. It is beyond all concepts and scriptures. The Guru disappears in the Self. Self Refers to It Self as Pure Consciousness That Is Whole. It Reveals It Self Continuously as It Is. Once Realized, who remains to confirm or deny it? Love to all Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2000 Report Share Posted December 10, 2000 advaitin , Shree Sunder Hattangadi" <sunderh@h...> wrote: > Namaste, > > Dennis's point is confirmed by the Vedas themselves! One who > realises the Self transcends even the Vedas. Those who are not ready > for this leap, Vedas act as a sure guide, because those who have > realised the Self confirm their authenticity. > > Colette's comment is interesting and has a most remarkable > reference to back it up: > > Gurudev Ranade [1887-1957], the mystic-philosopher par excellence, > writes this: ["The BhagavadGita as a Philosophy of God-Realisation", > 3rd ed. 1982, Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan; p. 63] > > "Jnaneshvara next makes a very original contribution to the > philosophy of mysticism. This is what might be called his doctrine of > asymptotism. Under this we shall discuss two points: 1) asymptotic > realisation; and 2) the doctrine that perfection can be attained only > gradually. Namaste. Shree Suderji's details are wonderful !!! As we all agree, Brahman is outside of the domain of space-time-karma- maya-mind-intellect-senses-etc. Hence, by mathematics, the laws of sequential nature may not apply at all. It is because, whatever is done, is done in a domain that is not Brahman and so may not really matter. So, the question then comes why purity, control of mind, etc ? This is probably because not only Sages but some great but mis-informed sages also achieved and fell again due to impurity. Uncultivated lands may get as much rain as cultivated lands, but ... may 'rain' then be blamed for partiality ? Thanks and regards, Raghava Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2000 Report Share Posted December 10, 2000 Dear Dennis, There indeed is no need to be mystified! Do not the Vedas proclaim: " Satyam gyaanam Anantham Brahma "."Ayam Atma Brahma" and "Aham Brahmaasmi"? Ashtavakra in his Gita gives us the following food for thought: 1.If you detatch yourself from the body and rest in Conciousness,you will atonce be happy,peaceful and free from bondage. 2.You are the one seer of all and are really ever free. Verily this alone is your bondage that you see yourself not as the seer but as something other. 3.Knowledge, knower and the knowable-these three do not exist in reality. I am the stainless Self in which this triad appears through ignorance. 4.O Pure Inteligence,do not disturb your mind with affirmations and negations.Be calm and abide happily in your own self which is Bliss itself. 5.Completely give up even contemplation and hold nothing in your mind.You are verily the Self, free.What will you do by thinking? Hari Om! Swaminarayan. --- Dennis Waite <dwaite wrote: > > I confess to being mystified! > > We have spoken before about any scripture (or other > means) being like the > pole that a pole-vaulter uses to raise himself to > the bar. Once the body > reaches the bar, he must release the pole in order > to be able to pass over. > In the same way, once realisation is attained, the > scripture is no longer > needed. If realisation has indeed taken place in a > particular body-mind > mechanism, where is the need to go to the Vedas or > any other pramaaNa for > verification? Surely only the ego could want to > check to see if the ‘state’ > experienced corresponds with a description given in > the Vedas? If there is > genuine realisation, there would no longer be any > ego or state. > > There can be no need to go and look to check in > which direction the finger > is pointing if he is now looking directly at the > moon himself. > > Dennis > > Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2000 Report Share Posted December 11, 2000 > > >There can be no need to go and look to check in which direction the finger >is pointing if he is now looking directly at the moon himself. > >Dennis > Beautiful Dennis. I was overwelmed by your post. God bless you. You are absolutely right. Once you are on the other side of the pole, there is neither a pole nor a pole-vault left to check even whether one has crossed or not since there is nothing to cross. I stand corrected. It is only the sadhak that needs a pramaaNa. Once one has realized - that state in fact is referred even in the scriptures as 'aprameyam' - beyond any pramaaNa-s - since all definitions and pramaaNa-s are within the realm of plurality. My hats-off to you and thank you for correcting me. Hari Om! Sadananda -- K. Sadananda Code 6323 Naval Research Laboratory Washington D.C. 20375 Voice (202)767-2117 Fax:(202)767-2623 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2000 Report Share Posted December 11, 2000 Dear Sadanandaji, When you stated ," since there 'is' nothing to cross" I am sure you meant to state ,"since there 'was' nothing to cross" !! Warm regards, Hari Om! Swaminarayan. --- "K. Sadananda" <sada wrote: there is neither a pole nor a pole-vault left > to check even > whether one has crossed or not since there is > nothing to cross. > > Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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