readiness of a student for AtmavidyA

[Guest guest]

namaste.

 

We all know that the disciple has to be ripe for receiving

AtmavidyA. AtmavidyA cannot be had by everyone. Many AcAryAs

over the years stressed the great importance of sAdhanacatuShTaya

and the maturity of the mind of the disciple to be eligible to

receive this teaching.

 

While the AtmavidyA is taught by the guru (teacher) to a shiShya

(disciple), AtmavidyA, from my understanding, is the transformation

from within of the shiShya to recognize his/her true identity. Thus,

it is an outgrowth from within rather than an ingrowth from the outside.

 

In any case, the objective of this post is to compare the presentation

in the bhagavadgItA, in shri shankara's texts and even in the upanishads

with regard to the readiness of a student for AtmavidyA. shri shankara

says in almost all the prakaraNa texts, and particularly in the

vivekacUDAmaNi, what should be the mental state of the disciple.

shri shankara describes how the disciple should approach the teacher

and learn from Him. Br^ihadAraNyaka and chAndogya upanishads also

describe the disciple's environment and frame of mind. BrahmasutrA-s

start with athAto brahma jignAsA with athAto meaning then therefore,

emphasizing the ripeness of the student's mind for the brahma jignAsa.

 

BhagavadgItA describes Arjuna's condition before he received the

teaching. Particularly in BG 2.7, Arjuna describes his mental state:

 

kArpaNya doShopahata svabhAvAH

pr^icchAmitvAm dharmasammUDha cetAH

yacchreyasyA nishcitaM brUhutanme

shiShyaste'ham svAdhimAm tvAm prapannaM

 

Now, my question is: can we say the description in the early part

of vivekacUDAmaNi (where the disciple approaches the teacher) is

similar to Arjuna's condition in the bhagavadgItA? Or, in other

words, from what we know of Arjuna and of disciples in the upanishads

and in shri shankara's works, does Arjuna have the ripeness and maturity

of mind to receive the teaching of AtmavidyA?

 

I think the answer to this question (are the disciples in shri

shankara's works and in upanishads similar to Arjuna, the disciple

in the BG) can be inferred from BG 4.16, 4.17, 4.18 which were the

subject of discussion on the List recently. Krishna says in BG4.18

the one who sees inaction in action and action in inaction is wise

(buddhimAn) among men. A buddhimAn is still not a realized person

but has all the ingredients for receiving the knowledge of the SELF.

 

Can this buddhimAn see action in inaction *and* also inaction in

action? (please note the emphasis on *and* above) or is it an *or*

rather than *and* ? A buddhimAn disciple like Arjuna is being taught

to see inaction in action. Upanishadic disciples and shri shankara's

disciples are taught to see action in inaction. Both are essentially

the same but both lead to what we know as karma yoga (taught by the

BG) and jnAna yoga (taught by the upanishads) respectively. Isha

upanishad teaches Atmavidya to different types and levels of disciples

in its eighteen verses. Isha says in verse 2 kurvanneva iha karmANi ..

the same as what bhagavadgItA teaches.

 

As usual, comments are appreciated.

 

 

Regards

Gummuluru Murthy

------

[Guest guest]

advaitin , Gummuluru Murthy <gmurthy@m...> wrote:

>

> BhagavadgItA describes Arjuna's condition before he received the

> teaching. Particularly in BG 2.7, Arjuna describes his mental state:

>

> kArpaNya doShopahata svabhAvAH

> pr^icchAmitvAm dharmasammUDha cetAH

> yacchreyasyA nishcitaM brUhutanme

> shiShyaste'ham svAdhimAm tvAm prapannaM

>

> Now, my question is: can we say the description in the early part

> of vivekacUDAmaNi (where the disciple approaches the teacher) is

> similar to Arjuna's condition in the bhagavadgItA? Or, in other

> words, from what we know of Arjuna and of disciples in the

upanishads

> and in shri shankara's works, does Arjuna have the ripeness and

maturity

> of mind to receive the teaching of AtmavidyA?

>

> I think the answer to this question (are the disciples in shri

> shankara's works and in upanishads similar to Arjuna, the disciple

> in the BG) can be inferred from BG 4.16, 4.17, 4.18 which were the

> subject of discussion on the List recently. Krishna says in BG4.18

> the one who sees inaction in action and action in inaction is wise

> (buddhimAn) among men. A buddhimAn is still not a realized person

> but has all the ingredients for receiving the knowledge of the SELF.

>

> Can this buddhimAn see action in inaction *and* also inaction in

> action? (please note the emphasis on *and* above) or is it an *or*

> rather than *and* ? A buddhimAn disciple like Arjuna is being taught

> to see inaction in action. Upanishadic disciples and shri shankara's

> disciples are taught to see action in inaction. Both are essentially

> the same but both lead to what we know as karma yoga (taught by the

> BG) and jnAna yoga (taught by the upanishads) respectively. Isha

> upanishad teaches Atmavidya to different types and levels of

disciples

> in its eighteen verses. Isha says in verse 2 kurvanneva iha karmANi

...

> the same as what bhagavadgItA teaches.

>

> As usual, comments are appreciated.

--

Namaste.

First of all, I offer my pranams for the genius of such a wonderful

inquiry. I will put in my 2cents of understanding, Sir.

 

Savyasachi (Arjuna) could, single-handedly win the entire Kurukhsetra

war. He did that before in Virata-parvam. He does not need help from

Krishna, Bhima, and much less, from Yudhishtara and others. With his

Gandivam flashing like lightning, he is invincible ! Not even Drona,

Bhisma, Karna are any match.

However, he saw the aftermath of his personal victory and was

dejected. Aftermath as he saw it, was nothing more than annihilation

of entire clans. This dejection is only a precursor to inaction in

action that he did not yet know. By the way, it is interesting that

even in his confused state, BG2.7, he says to Krishna at the end,

"tvAm prapannaM" - I take refuge in you, do instruct me. He did not

leave his chariot and did not walk off from the battlefield with

Krishna chasing Arjuna. Arjuna could run faster anyway, if he chose

to.

To answer the question, Arjuna's state was perfect to receive Atma-

Jnana, in my opinion, because, his entire intense action was in a

flash, reduced to inaction, Kurukhsetra thus becoming DharmaKshetra,

thru Krishna's teaching of Atma-Jnana.

 

I recall from Swami Vivekananda's works that a large number of Sages

who possessed and taught Brahma-Jnana in Vedic/Upanishadic ages were

kings and not priests ! A king has a million activities to do, in any

age. Unless seeing action in inaction and inaction and action, it is

not possible to perform those million activities effectively where

all his people are happy(like Rama-Rajya).

To answer the question we can see this in Upanishads. For eaxmple,

Khandogya-Upanishad 2:11 onwards, five great householders and great

theologians came to king Asvapati Kaikeya to know the knowledge of

Brahman. The king says in the introduction, "In my kingdom there is

no thief, no miser,no person with an altar in the house, no ignorant

person,..." That was possible due to a large number of people

possessing knowledge,if not Brahma-Jnana, at least the preparedness.

How does an entire kingdom run, if everyone sees action in inaction

only ? To run like Rama-Rajya, it has to be both ways.

The king then gives a beautiful discourse later on, as documented in

the Upanishad. For example, "If Prana is satisfied, the eye is

satisfied.If the eye is satisfied, the sun is satisfied, if the sun

is satisfied, heaven is satisfied, if heaven is satisfied, whatever

is under heaven and under sun is satisfied. And through their

satisfaction he(the sacrificer or eater) himself is satisfied with

offspring, cattle, health, brighness, and Vedic splendour."

 

Once again I offer my deep reverence to the wonderful inquiry.

 

With Love,

Raghava

[Guest guest]

There is a minor syntactic but major semantic correction in my

previous post:

>The king says in the introduction, "In my kingdom there is

> no thief, no miser,no person with an altar in the house, no

ignorant

> person,..." That was possible due to a large number of people

> possessing knowledge,if not Brahma-Jnana, at least the preparedness.

 

This should be,

"...no person *without* an altar in the house..."

 

 

With Love,

Raghava

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

A different perpective may be offered on this issue.

 

Atmavidya is a birth-right of every human being! To prepare for it is

an obligation of the individual, of the parents, family, society, etc.

 

manushhyatvam, mumukshutvam, mahaa-purushha-sa.nshrayaH [human birth,

desire for liberation, and association with the sages, together is a

rarity [Vivekachudamani]. In Arjuna's case, the combination of

factors was perfect.

 

saadhana-chatushhTaya is a prerequisite for the study of Brahmasutra

and Upanishads for successful completion. But this applies

to 'nivR^itti-maarga', primarily.

 

For pravR^itti-maarga, for which Arjuna was 'adhikaarii' or

competent/qualified, only three requisites are relevant: aarta

(distressed), jij~naasu (seeker of knowledge), arthaarthii (seeker of

pleasures) [Gita 7:16].

 

Gita is the shaastra [teaching] for the pravR^itti-maarga, [...brahma-

vidyaayaa.n yoga-shaastre shrii kR^ishhNaarjuna-sa.nvaade....].

 

 

 

Sri Krishna also says:

 

loke asmin dvividhaa nishhThaa puraa proktaa mayaa anagha .

j~naanayogena saa~Nkhyaanaa.n karmayogena yoginaam.h .. 3:3

 

Again, Sri Krishna says:

 

chaturvidhaa bhajante maa.n janaaH sukR^itinaH arjuna .

aartaH jij~naasuH arthaarthii j~naanii cha bharatarshabha .. 7:16

 

The brahma-aatma-aikyam has been achieved by many through bhakti

[Kabir, Tukaram], who were householders.

 

The Guru, the manifest Paramatman, guides the disciple on the path

best suited.

 

How long the disciple takes to realise it varies: Nachiketa took a

few days, Shvetaketu a few years, Indra over a hundred years!!

 

The complete quotation is:

sah buddhimaan manushhyeshhu saH yuktaH kR^itsna-karmakR^it .

[The definition of yukta occurs later:

 

j~naana-vijnaana-tR^ipta-aatmaa kuuTasthaH vijita-indriyaH .

yukta iti uchyate yogii sama-loshhTa-ashhma-kaa~nchanaH .. 6:8.

 

kR^itsna-karma-kR^it means one who has achieved the end of all

action, viz. freedom.]

 

and is actually given as the ideal of a sage, and has no reference as

to Arjuna's 'ripeness' for Atmavidya.

 

The synthesis occurs in the word 'yoga-sa.nnyasta-karmaaNam', in

4:41, where the skill in karma yoga accomplishes sa.nnyaasa also.

 

Ishavasya's first mantra is the j~naana nishhThaa; second mantra is

the karma nishhThaa; and Gita is the explanation of these mantras.

 

It would seem from the strictures Gita makes on the karma-vadins,

that vedic religion had fallen to the level of performing yajnas for

gaining heaven only, and the authentic pravR^itti-maarga needed to be

revived.

 

The relevance of this scripture for the kali-yuga people now seems

more important than ever; even the ideal of making heaven on earth is

doomed unless the spiritual ideal of sacrifice is upheld.

 

Regards,

 

s.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

advaitin , Gummuluru Murthy <gmurthy@m...> wrote:

>

> namaste.

>

[Guest guest]

advaitin , Shree Sunder Hattangadi" <sunderh@h...>

wrote:

> Sri Krishna also says:

>

> loke asmin dvividhaa nishhThaa puraa proktaa mayaa anagha .

> j~naanayogena saa~Nkhyaanaa.n karmayogena yoginaam.h .. 3:3

>

 

Thanks to Shree SunderJi; this conveys the twofold path.

 

"The twofold path was given by Me, O sinless one, to the world in the

beginning--the path of knowledge to the discerning, the path of work

to the active."

 

 

4:11 People pursue My path, O Partha, in all ways.

 

5:4 Knowledge and performance of action are not different; he who is

truly established in one obtains the fruit of both.

 

5:5 The state reached by the Jnanis is also reached by the karma

yogis. He sees who sees Jnana and karma-yoga as one.

 

5:6 Sanyasa, O mighty-armed, is hard to attain to without karma

yoga; the person of meditation, purified by karma yoga quickly goes

to Brahman.

 

Sri Shankara's verse#66 of Vivekachudamani - "Therefore, strive by

all means in your power to be free."

 

With Love,

Raghava