Guest guest Posted December 30, 2000 Report Share Posted December 30, 2000 The sruti has it thus: "this Self cannot be attained by instruction, nor by intellectual power, nor even through much hearing(katha up 1.2.23; Mund.Up 3.23) In other places also it is said thus: No purpose is served by the uselfess repetition of the collected texts of many scriptures, in the form of , as it we4re a patched garment (as the ruminating a peirce of suce a garment by a cow or the like is useless). Those who have learned about the inner Light sho8ld attempt to realizae IT. (Muktikopanisad 2. 63) Even after studying the four Vedas and all the Dharmasatras many times one may not know the essence of Brahman just like the ladle has no knowledge of the taste of the food... To the Brahmana who has known the Self, all the Vedas are of so much use as a reservoir is, when there is a flood everywhere...(ibid 2.46) Moreover, the desire for learning is impure since it is the cause of insolence. In the sixth Chapter of the Chandogya Upanisad it has been described that Svetaketu having learned all the Vedas in a short time, out of pride did not behave with humility even before his father. Similarily, it is described in the fourth chapter of the Kausitaki Upanisad and in the first brahmana of the second chapter of the Brhadaranyaka Upanisad that Balaki was very proud because of his knowledge of a few forms of worship: he went in a conquering spree, to many countries, beginning with Usinara and humiliated many brahmanas by the pre-eminence of his erudition. And at last at Kasi he had the audacity to offer instructions to Ajatasatru the most eminent among the knowers of Brahman.... All that i have posted was only to say that instead of spending all your time debating scripture and word after word and term after term... look at the fact that all scripture etc. only points to Brahman... you will only in the end know the truth of Brahman when directly experienced.....Why the Silence - Why not Mind There is a quote " Those that speak do not know and those that know do not speak" There are those that have reached that have tried to speak... but always must say there are not adequate words... you cannot describe That Which Is or the Constant or God beyond Form or the Source.... it is impossible.. many have tried but it becomes a lesson in futility... through trying the great works such as the vivekchudamani and the ashtavakra gita came into being.... now the answer as to why it is impossible.... Because the Word is thought... and word and thought are ceation... and creation is duality... All words conotate form.... even those that state formless just give another quality to form.... Mind and thought create the Maya Realm of form and the transient... That Which Is the Constant is beyond all division and duality and form... So when you speak Maya comes into existance... The moment you speak you are separate from That Which Is... So now how to reach.... That is why the Silence... inner silence... why emotions and mind and thought must stop.... only then will you go beyond the intellect... only then can you reach the un-reachable... only in the silence... when mind and thought stop.... then you go beyond to that which Is... then you go beyond the transient to the Constant.... In silence the world of Maya ends... in non-thought then true knowledge IS.... in Pure Awareness that which is Reality Is.... to reach you must be willing to drop the world of the transient that you have held so dear... the fear that you cease to exist is unfounded... for you will find that while that which is seen as personality ends.... you are One in the lap of reality... You are what the transient world proceeds from... You are the Essence of Existance and beyond Existance... then if you desire personality and form go for it... for you will find you are and have always been free.... this is Moksha... to finally understand that there is Nothing that you need freedom from.... that it was and is All only a play of mind in the ever-changing transient realms... realms of desire and experience... The dream state of Maya... realization is beyond experience.... although experience is the closest word of duality to explain Being in That... Experience has a beginning and an end... and truth has no beginning nor end... Self has never been born nor has ever died... although it sustains and gives life and meaning to form the experience of form does not touch it.... you are the perfection untouched by any experience of form and Maya.... just as you are untouched by your dreams at night... the You of Self is untouched by the Maya realm of dream and mind... Go within to the Silence.... drop the thought... just observe... have no pre-conceptions.... Just BE!!!! Those that know do not speak - for in speaking you call forth existance... And those that speak do not know.... That which is is beyond conventional language and ideations of duality. for in speaking you separate yourself into ego form and are separated from the pure awareness of Now beyond form and Maya.... In the Silence you Are - you cannot not KNOW when you are in rational thought and mind processess.... Stay in the silence beyond mind and thought - once you reach it is possible to stay in the silence... but be aware if desire comes you will once again drop into mind and Maya... but you will know that it is only a game... so have no fear.... Continue on dropping the illusions.... Love and Blessings Only one Janani will recognise another... they do not speak for this reason that when they do their words are discounted and vilified... of what gain is it to the Janani to speak? it is simpler only to sit back and rest within the Bliss of Self than to battle mayas illusions.... But one plays out the karma path and is moved by the surface waves of consiousness.... but rest assured never, never deluded by the dreams illusions of maya..... it is only emptiness.... and within its emptiness non-dual in nature.... as the man while dreaming believes he is the doer and enjoyer upon awakening he realizes that it was all only empty illusions... never has he done anything - never has anything been enjoyed... and all that exists is Brahman the Constant Formless beyond all time and divison and untouched by any of mayas play...... once again Love and Blessings .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2000 Report Share Posted December 31, 2000 --- Ganga Karmokar <crystalkundalini wrote: > To the Brahmana who has known the Self, all the > Vedas are of so much > use as a reservoir is, when there is a flood > everywhere...(ibid 2.46) Dear Gangaji, Could you kindly let me know the name of the Text referred by 'ibid' 2.46 above? It does not appear to be an Upanishad.Is it a Smriti text? I shall be grateful for your response. Hari Om! Swaminarayan Photos - Share your holiday photos online! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2000 Report Share Posted December 31, 2000 advaitin , Shree Ganga Karmokar wrote: > [...Shruti...] >Love and Blessings Dearest Ganga-ji and Dearest Jaishankar-Ji Your discussions were great scholarly exchanges and I for one, each day, looked forward to read more and to learn more. I am confident that I can look forward to more in future and in the new year. Sometimes, I picture the Kurukshetra-Dharmakshetra war going on within my own mind where a battle goes on between good and evil and trying to get focus using Krishna's knowledge. Sometimes in the war, Arjuna also gets hurt by fierce arrows of his own mind. This is part of the Lord's game plan in the quest for Brahman. Nara and Narayana together are invincible in the pursuit of Brahman. With Love, Raghava Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2000 Report Share Posted December 31, 2000 advaitin , raghavakaluri wrote: >. > > Sometimes, I picture the Kurukshetra-Dharmakshetra war going on > within my own mind where a battle goes on between good and evil and > trying to get focus using Krishna's knowledge. Sometimes in the war, > Arjuna also gets hurt by fierce arrows of his own mind. This is part > of the Lord's game plan in the quest for Brahman. Nara and Narayana > together are invincible in the pursuit of Brahman. > > With Love, > Raghava namaste - If you haven't read as yet, you may enjoy reading the Chandi Path.. This is not to suggest that you should become a devotee of Durga, or Kali... but it is a wonderful illustration that the demons that we battle are those of mind... and the last most vicious is that of the illusion of ego its self... Love and Blessings may your search prove most fruitful in the coming year...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2000 Report Share Posted December 31, 2000 Please permit to quote Bhagawan Sri Krishna's advice which is always very helpful: Etadatatmani jagan,mano,vak, pranasmhitam sarvam maya iti tarkena swasthyah tat tyaktwa nata smaret Understanding by discrimination that this entire universe,mind,speech and energy propensities (including good and evil thoughts) are all only Maaya superimposed on the atma,establish yourself in the Reality and forget this maaya (do not be preoccupied by it).. Happy New Year to All! Ananda Sagar Tasmaad asat abhidhyanam yadaa swapna manoradham hitwaaMayi samaadhaswa mano Madbhava Bhavitam Therefore get rid of this mental propensity of constant involvement with the Asat (Unreal,Maya and its mischief) which is only a mental concoction like a dream, and get reassurance (peace) by Me,knowing and realizing in the mind that I (the Reality) am all.(Vasudeva sarvam) Ganga Karmokar <crystalkundalini wrote: advaitin , raghavakaluri wrote: >. > > Sometimes, I picture the Kurukshetra-Dharmakshetra war going on > within my own mind where a battle goes on between good and evil and > trying to get focus using Krishna's knowledge. Sometimes in the war, > Arjuna also gets hurt by fierce arrows of his own mind. This is part > of the Lord's game plan in the quest for Brahman. Nara and Narayana > together are invincible in the pursuit of Brahman. > > With Love, > Raghava namaste - If you haven't read as yet, you may enjoy reading the Chandi Path.. This is not to suggest that you should become a devotee of Durga, or Kali... but it is a wonderful illustration that the demons that we battle are those of mind... and the last most vicious is that of the illusion of ego its self... Love and Blessings may your search prove most fruitful in the coming year...... eGroups Sponsor Discussion of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ For Temporary stoppage of your Email, send a blank email to <advaitin-nomail > To resume normal delivery of Email, send a blank email to <advaitin-normal > To receive email digest (one per day) send a blank email to <advaitin-digest > To to advaitin list, send a blank email to <advaitin-> Photos - Share your holiday photos online! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2001 Report Share Posted January 1, 2001 advaitin , Swaminarayan T <tvswaminarayan> wrote: > > --- Ganga Karmokar <crystalkundalini@h...> > wrote: > > To the Brahmana who has known the Self, all the > > Vedas are of so much > > use as a reservoir is, when there is a flood > > everywhere...(ibid 2.46) > > Dear Gangaji, > > Could you kindly let me know the name of the Text > referred by 'ibid' 2.46 above? It does not appear to > be an Upanishad.Is it a Smriti text? I shall be > grateful for your response. > > Hari Om! > > Swaminarayan > NAMASTE- Yes that quote is from the Bhagavadgita 2:46 Here is another that backs the last post and also what was posted before... >From the VIVEKA-CUDAMANI V: 56 Neither by Yoga, nor by Sankhya, nor by work, nor by learning, but by realization of one's identity with Brahman is liberation possible, and by no other means... V: 57 The beauty of a guitars form and the skill of playing on its chords serve merely to please a few persons; they do not suffice to confer sovereignty.... v: 58 Loud speech consisting of a shower of words, the skill in expounding the scriptures, and likewise erudition - these merely bring on a little personal enjoyment to the scholar, but are no good for liberation... V: 59 the study of scriptures is useless so long as the highest Truth is unknown, and it is egually useless when the highest Truth has already been known.... V: 60 The scriptures consisting of many words are a dense forest which merely causes the mind to ramble... Hence men of wisdom should earnestly set about "knowing" the true nature of the Self... * V: 65 As a treasure hidden underground requires (for its extraction) competent instruction, excavation, the removal of stones and other such things lying above it and (finally) grasping, but never comes out by being (merely) called out by name, so the transparent Truth of Self, which is hidden by Maya and its effects, is to be attained through the instructions of a "knower of Brahman", followed by reflection, meditation, and so forth, but not through perverted arguments..... Love and Blessings my postings can be backed always by scripture... P.S. within the same texts you can find that it also states that "realization" is only gained through Nirvakalpa Samadhi and a still mind (no thoughts) this is another good quote from the Astavakragita V95 The man of Knowledge is devoid of thought, even when he is engaged in thought: he is devoid of the sense organs, even though he has them; he is devoid of intelligence, even though endowed with it: and he is devoid of the sense of ego, even though possessed of it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2001 Report Share Posted January 1, 2001 Dear Gangaji, Thank you so much for your response. I have always seen BG as abbreviation for Bhagavat Gita. I wonder what these letters i,b,i and d stand for in this abbreviation used for BG. With warm regards, Hari Om, Swaminarayan. --- Ganga Karmokar <crystalkundalini wrote: > advaitin , Swaminarayan T > <tvswaminarayan> > wrote: > > > > --- Ganga Karmokar <crystalkundalini@h...> > > wrote: > > > To the Brahmana who has known the Self, all the > > > Vedas are of so much > > > use as a reservoir is, when there is a flood > > > everywhere...(ibid 2.46) > > > > Dear Gangaji, > > > > Could you kindly let me know the name of the Text > > referred by 'ibid' 2.46 above? It does not appear > to > > be an Upanishad.Is it a Smriti text? I shall be > > grateful for your response. > > > > Hari Om! > > > > Swaminarayan > > > > > NAMASTE- > Yes that quote is from the Bhagavadgita 2:46 > > Here is another that backs the last post and also > what was posted > before... > Photos - Share your holiday photos online! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2001 Report Share Posted January 1, 2001 Harih OM Gangaji: Namaskar, I am happy to see read your foot note with the refreshing statement, "my postings can be backed by scripture...." This statement is quite significant and correctly recognizes that all thoughtful statements needs the necessary ratification from the scriptures. It is nice of you to bring support to your assertions using the Upanishads, Gita, Viveka Chudamani, and other texts. Thanks again for sharing your wisdom and I am looking forward to your thoughtful posts with appropropriate backings from the scriptures. warmest regards, Ram Chandran advaitin , "Ganga Karmokar" <crystalkundalini@h...> wrote: > .... > Love and Blessings > my postings can be backed always by scripture... > P.S. within the same texts you can find that it also states > that "realization" is only gained through Nirvakalpa Samadhi and a > still mind (no thoughts) > > this is another good quote from the Astavakragita > V95 The man of Knowledge is devoid of thought, even when he is > engaged in thought: he is devoid of the sense organs, even though he > has them; he is devoid of intelligence, even though endowed with it: > and he is devoid of the sense of ego, even though possessed of it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2001 Report Share Posted January 1, 2001 advaitin , Swaminarayan T <tvswaminarayan> wrote: > Dear Gangaji, > > Thank you so much for your response. > I have always seen BG as abbreviation for Bhagavat > Gita. I wonder what these letters i,b,i and d stand > for in this abbreviation used for BG. > > With warm regards, > > Hari Om, > g: Having gone back to the book and text it was observed that it stood for ongoing chapters and verse from the preceeding referance... Love and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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