On the discussion about "discovering God without faith"

[Guest guest]

OM OM OM Dear Atman, OM OM OM

>>>>>>namaste. Last night, I attended a discourse by swamini saralananda of

ArSha vidya gurukulam on "Discovering God without faith".

 

My Dearest,

I don't know what she means by the word "faith", but if she means "shraddha"

in Sanskrit, then I would have asked for the first that does she know that

all the vedic hymns are consisting out of Shraddha to the Supreme God? And

then does she know what the Upanishads say, "he who has faith in God, and as

much in Guru, to him all these greater truths are revealed"? And does she

know what Krishna says, "a person containing Shraddha obtains Atma-jnana"?

And then much more than all this. Please tell her to study the Arsha vidya

= the vidya as taught by the Rishis) with a sampradaaya method, serving a

master, and than...Otherwise they would present it that it would look like a

gardabha vidyaa, at least to a learned scholar...

And I can also not understand, how the rest about her is related with this?

It sounds a bit illogical...most probably I'm not quite understanding it.

Understand Shraddha better, vishvaas (dry faith, like a person has in the

bank-officers, giving all his money and wealth to them and still condemning

them for their laziness) + prema (love) = shraddhaa. And yes, one thing

more, it is absolutely something different from andha-vishvaasa (blind

faith), that is utter stupidity. Shraddha = whatever the scriptures say it

must be true, let me contemplate on it, let me meditate on it, let me

experience it, this is shraddha and without this NO DISCOVERING OF GOD.

Believe me...please...I mean it just for your best...

Please ponder on the two words frequently used in Gita, jnaana and vijnaana.

Jnaana becomes vijnaana, when mixed with experience.

>>>>>>>>But I hope this gives material for people to ponder that what we see

as creation and what we see as jagat is an admixture of our guNA-s only and

nothing else.

 

Dear Atman,

In this way you are trying to import the theory of "kshanika-vijnana-vada"

(Buddhism) in to Gaudapaada and Shankara's Advaita Vedanta, an error

committed by many scholars, because not experiencing, what Shankara did.

Take one rose from your garden, look in to it (don't look at it, but IN TO

IT, we all symply look at it). Do you see a red color? A nice form? Yes, you

do. Can you call it by a name? Yes, you can! rose in english, gulab in Hindi

and Paatala in Sanskrit.

Can you touch it? Yes, how soft it is! Can you smell it? What a great and

nice fragrance! But wait for one day, and look at it tomorrow, then?

Nothing! The entire rose has changed! You may say, but the name has not

changed, it is still a rose! OK, then wait, till it becomes a small bunch of

dust! No more a rose. And that is why the rose is mithya, an illusion, a

mere karya of the three gunas and avidya (which couse of the three

gunas). But that's only what you can see and that is why many

misunderstanding of Vedanta do occur.

Couldn't you see something more than that IN that rose? The existence of the

nice rose, the existence of the dried rose and the existence of the earth,

and the existence of what vanished on the second day, you surely perceived

its existence on the first day. It is this existence, which is called SAT

(the word is derived from the root "as" = to be), in the Upanishadic terms

and this very EXISTENCE is called Brahman, and this is called the Self of

everything, this deeper existence transcends

everything and is in everything. It is also in the Gunas and the boiling

cauldron of soup, which you had been mentioning in your post and everything

else which you have not mentioned ;-)

Please try to realize this pure existence through meditation

(nididhyaasana)!

That is why it is said, meditate! Contemplate. People just do Shravana

(hearing), some one does Manana (thinking), but non does Nididhyasana

(meditating), that is why they fail the game.

And if they do nididhyasana (meditation), than it is without Shravana and

Manana. (you must have seen doing them this, in many Yoga-asana or

Meditation Centers). Do you think, any fruit they obtain? Except some mental

piece, and that also due to the restless life of today, they feel it, that

is all. But is meditation only meant for this? No, for supreme peace, for to

obtain the peace which is even there whe a person is living in this restless

life of today, for to obtain the peace which doesn't vanish when you are

standing in the

market...that is the peace, about which Advaita-vedanta tells us, that is

the

peace which Shankara had, and he had it even when he was in his worst time

and nearly dying because of his Illness and pain. Because of that peace,

about him we say, shrimacchankaraachaaryo vijayatetaraam....because of this

peace advaita-vedanta is the highest philosophical system and the most

successful one among them in the field of Self-realization.

Now, if there is nothing else than the three gunas and if this existence is

not there (which is not a karya of the three gunas), then...how would the

world look like, I can't imagine ;-)

Now, to perceive this existence, to realize it, a very very pure heart is

needed, and for this devotion, faith etc. are needed. There is no other way.

If we can split "the discovery of God" (as she has mentioned it) in two

portions, ability to stand before this immensely shining sun of knowledge,

called GOD (satyam jnaanam anantam brahma = Taittiriya Upanishad) and then

standing before it; the first is utterly impossible without faith, yes, you

may say the second...I can not judge, you may judge with your own

realization. But, still then how the second, if you don't have the first?

Because faith helps one through saadhanaa (which is for purification of the

mind, intellect etc.), without faith no saadhana is possible. One needs

shraddha (faith) in the scriptures, Guru, and in his own self. If no

saadhana, then

no realization. Without saadhanaa one may realize every thing, but not the

Ultimate Supreme Anandamaya. I mean many in the history have realized

Kaama-ananda (the sensual pleasure) as parama-ananda or brahma-ananda, and

if you don't beleave me look in to the tantrik books.

Believe me, if no saadhanaa, than all this can happen...

Shrimacchankaraachaaryah punaatu mama vaaNiim...OM

Loving Regards,

OM OM OM Siddhartha Krishna OM OM OM

[Guest guest]

Namaste!

 

Precise definitions of Janana and vignana are given in Uddhava Geetha by Lord

Sri Krishna Himself!

 

Jnanam-Ekaatma darsanam !

 

Vignam-Etat triyavasthamangam gunatrayam kaarana karya kartu !

 

Regards

 

Sagar

 

 

 

 

Siddhartha Krishna <siddharthakrishna wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Mail Personal Address - Get email at your own domain with Mail.

 

 

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 15 Jan 2001, Siddhartha Krishna wrote:

> OM OM OM Dear Atman, OM OM OM

>

> >>>>>>namaste. Last night, I attended a discourse by

swamini saralananda of

> ArSha vidya gurukulam on "Discovering God without

faith".

>

> My Dearest,

> I don't know what she means by the word "faith", but

if she means "shraddha"

> in Sanskrit, then I would have asked for the first

that does she know that

> all the vedic hymns are consisting out of Shraddha

to the Supreme God? And

> then does she know what the Upanishads say, "he who

has faith in God, and as

> much in Guru, to him all these greater truths are

revealed"? And does she

> know what Krishna says, "a person containing

Shraddha obtains Atma-jnana"?

> And then much more than all this. Please tell her to

study the Arsha vidya

> = the vidya as taught by the Rishis) with a

sampradaaya method, serving a

> master, and than...Otherwise they would present it

that it would look like a

> gardabha vidyaa, at least to a learned scholar...

> And I can also not understand, how the rest about

her is related with this?

> It sounds a bit illogical...most probably I'm not

quite understanding it.

> Understand Shraddha better, vishvaas (dry faith,

like a person has in the

> bank-officers, giving all his money and wealth to

them and still condemning

> them for their laziness) + prema (love) = shraddhaa.

And yes, one thing

> more, it is absolutely something different from

andha-vishvaasa (blind

> faith), that is utter stupidity. Shraddha = whatever

the scriptures say it

> must be true, let me contemplate on it, let me

meditate on it, let me

> experience it, this is shraddha and without this NO

DISCOVERING OF GOD.

> Believe me...please...I mean it just for your

best...

> Please ponder on the two words frequently used in

Gita, jnaana and vijnaana.

> Jnaana becomes vijnaana, when mixed with experience.

>

 

Dear shri Siddhartha Krishnaji,

 

praNAms.

 

Thank you very much for your response. Some of the

points which you raised came up in the discussion

following the discourse. To be fair to the swamini,

I must say I might not have presented her points

here fairly, and I think we should give her that

benefit. She is not a member of the List and

discussing her presentation based only on what

I wrote in those brief sentences may be unfair.

 

---

 

Now, re later half of my original post where I

discussed convection cells, how the material gets

completely recycled all the time, they are my

half-baked thoughts and can be explored further.

> >>>>>>>>But I hope this gives material for people to

ponder that what we see

> as creation and what we see as jagat is an admixture

of our guNA-s only and

> nothing else.

>

> Dear Atman,

> In this way you are trying to import the theory of

"kshanika-vijnana-vada"

> (Buddhism) in to Gaudapaada and Shankara's Advaita

Vedanta, an error

> committed by many scholars, because not

experiencing, what Shankara did.

> Take one rose from your garden, look in to it (don't

look at it, but IN TO> IT, we all symply look at it).

Do you see a red color? A nice form? Yes, you

> do. Can you call it by a name? Yes, you can! rose in

english, gulab in Hindi

> and Paatala in Sanskrit.

> Can you touch it? Yes, how soft it is! Can you smell

it? What a great and

> nice fragrance! But wait for one day, and look at it

tomorrow, then?

> Nothing! The entire rose has changed! You may say,

but the name has not

> changed, it is still a rose! OK, then wait, till it

becomes a small bunch of

> dust! No more a rose. And that is why the rose is

mithya, an illusion, a

> mere karya of the three gunas and avidya (which

couse of the three

> gunas). But that's only what you can see and that is

why many

> misunderstanding of Vedanta do occur.

> Couldn't you see something more than that IN that

rose? The existence of the

> nice rose, the existence of the dried rose and the

existence of the earth,

> and the existence of what vanished on the second

day, you surely perceived

> its existence on the first day. It is this

existence, which is called SAT

> (the word is derived from the root "as" = to be), in

the Upanishadic terms

> and this very EXISTENCE is called Brahman, and this

is called the Self of

> everything, this deeper existence transcends

> everything and is in everything. It is also in the

Gunas and the boiling

> cauldron of soup, which you had been mentioning in

your post and everything

> else which you have not mentioned ;-)

 

Your example of rose is a very nice one. Whether we

see the material as a beautiful rose or as a speck of

dust is based on our guNA-s. If we know the Truth, we

see it as SAT, and are completely unaffected whether

it is a rose or a speck of dust. That is, our emotions

would be the same whether we see it as a rose or as a

speck of dust. The reason we feel happy when we see it

as a rose and we are not as much happy when we see it

as a speck of dust, is based on our admixture of

guNA-s. If we have the same feeling whether we see

it as rose or as speck of dust, then our guNA-s are

not misleading us.

 

I mentioned in one of my earlier posts that the

subject of experience is the soul, i.e., any

experience is felt by the soul; how we interpret

this experience is a measure of the wisdom of the

man. All the pairs of opposites emanate out of

this interpretation of experience of the soul.

If it is felt exactly the same way, whether a rose

or a speck of dust is seen, then the soul has

reached the nearness of nirguNa brahman.

 

My reason in bringing up convection cells into

discussion is: there also the material gets completely

recycled like creation, sustenance and destruction

(ShruShTi, sthiti, laya) and the reason why this

recycling process starts in convection cells is the

temperature *gradient*, the difference in the

properties of the medium. If there were no difference,

there would be no recycling and no convection cells.

Similarly, for us also to see sruShTi, sthiti, laya

as *different*, there has to be an admixture of

guNA-s. If we are full of sattwa, do we see any

*difference* in sruShTi, sthiti, laya, do we not

see only SAT?

 

Yes, shraddha and cittashuddhi are the essential

prerequisites for SELF-realization and I have argued

this consistently through many years.

 

I would be most grateful if you can comment on the

above, based on your sAmpradAyak teaching gained

through the revered teachers of kailAsh Ashram.

> [...]

> Loving Regards,

> OM OM OM Siddhartha Krishna OM OM OM

>

 

 

praNAms and regards

Gummuluru Murthy

--------------------

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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