Is Advaita the way for eradicating the menace of Varna System

[Guest guest]

OM

Pranam

>From Yoga As A Universal Science By Sri Swami Krishnananda

http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/univ_00.html

 

Varnashrama - An Aid to Free Ourselves from the Grip of

Nature

 

People generally think that Varna means caste, but it is

not that. It means a class. The principle of the

classification of society is called the Varna-Dharma. It is

a classification, not a 'castification'. To say that Varna

means caste is to give it a wrong name and an erroneous

interpretation. No man is complete in himself, and

therefore, no man can be satisfied merely in his own self

without the co-operation of other persons. Man is, among

other things, intellect, will, emotion and energy. There

are certain people with a tremendous physical capacity, but

intellectually they are poor. There are others who are

rationally and intellectually brilliant, but physically

weak. The other two aspects, namely, emotion and will, are

also distributed disproportionately among people. Everyone

is not possessed of these characteristics in the same

measure. Inasmuch as everyone's intention is the welfare of

all human beings, the solidarity of mankind in general, it

is necessary that we share among ourselves the commodities

that we have. The commodities are not necessarily physical

ones; they can be psychological ones also. If one has great

intellectual capacity and spiritual acumen, which are

necessary for the welfare of society, but not other

facilities, he will share the knowledge and wisdom and the

directing intelligence that he has, with others, for the

facilities which he does not have. The mutual co-operative

activity of society - spiritually, administratively,

economically and manually - forms the essence of the Varna

system. The classification into Brahmanas, Kshatriyas,

Vaisyas and Sudras is not a categorisation of people into

superior and inferior types, into bosses and subordinates,

but it is a classification of the functions of individuals

according to their knowledge and capacities, for the

purpose of a complete co-operative organisation of

humankind, with a noble intention and purpose. This is one

way in which we can be happy in this world. Otherwise, we

will be in misery every day, every moment. The desires of

ours are classified in this manner, and they are given an

opportunity of permissible satisfaction, by a mutual co-

operation horizontally in this manner.

 

There is the other side, namely, the vertical side,

which is the Subject of the Ashrama-Dharma, or duties

pertaining to the different Ashramas, or stages of life.

Just as we have totally misunderstood the meaning of the

Varna system, we have also misunderstood the meaning of the

Ashrama system. Just as we condemn the classification of

Varna as caste distinction, we convert the classification

of the stages of one's life by way of Ashrama, into a kind

of dead routine of religion. Neither Varna nor Ashrama is a

routine. Varnashrama is a vital participation in the

processes of life, externally as well as internally.

Externally it goes by the name of Varna, and internally it

goes by the name of Ashrama. The idea behind this is the

fulfilment of the requirements of the human personality, in

the way it would be required, for the purpose of a

transcendence of all limitations, with the great goal of

Moksha, or liberation of the spirit, in mind. What a

glorious psychological organisation this Varnashrama is! No

item in this classification is unimportant, because nature

catches us by the throat, with such a firm grip, that we

cannot free ourselves from its compulsive pressure without

the aid of the Varnashrama-Dharma. We are caught firmly by

Nature socially, physically, vitally; psychologically,

rationally and even spiritually. So, we have to free

ourselves from these clutches or pressures by a gradual

dissociation of ourselves from nature, as we untie its

knots one by one.

 

If we tie a thread into a dozen knots, and then want

to untie them and straighten out the thread, we do not go

to the bottom knot first, but rather to the topmost one.

The topmost knot is untied first, then the previous one or

the eleventh knot, then the tenth, then the ninth and so

on, till at last we come to the very first knot. We cannot

touch the last knot in the very beginning. Similarly, in

spiritual life, the first problem is treated last, and the

last problem is taken up first. Because, the first is more

subtle and more proximate to the realities of things than

the later ones which are the evolutes of the causes. The

effects have to be taken care of first, and the causes

later on. So, outwardly as well as inwardly, these systems

of organisation known as Varna and Ashrama, are procedures

enjoined upon every person, for untying the various knots

of entanglement in life, engendered by one's needs which

are social, physical, vital, emotional, intellectual and so

on.

 

Such a vast involvement is associated with this

little thing called Brahmacharya, by the practice of which

we do not merely put on a conduct personally and socially,

but establish ourselves in a status of strength, where we

are so tuned to things that our energies do not move at all

in any direction, but are held up in such a way that there

is no urge within ourselves to transfer our energies to

outside things for the fulfilment of our desires. Desires

have to be fulfilled, and also, they are not to be

fulfilled. Both these statements are correct statements.

But, the statements must be understood in their proper

meaning. For instance, hunger has to be appeased, though

hunger is a disease of the body, though it is a canker that

eats into every man's vitals and compels him to remember

always that he is a body. Can anything be worse than this

that one should be made to feel always that one is a

prisoner? One may be a captive in a prison, but why should

one be made to think everyday that one is a prisoner? But,

that is precisely what hunger does. All the time it makes

you remain body- conscious. Such an evil thing it is, but

how can one get out of it? By meeting the demands of the

body, while exercising very great caution simultaneously.

That is why we put on clothes when we feel chilled; we go

to sleep when we are tired; we eat a meal when we are

hungry. We go for a walk and we do many things. Now, all

these activities are so far removed from the goal of our

life, as the north pole from the south, and yet they are

taken as necessities. We may call them necessary evils, if

we like. They are evils, no doubt, but they are necessary

evils. So, they have to be befriended first, in order that

we may sever ourselves from them ultimately. The intention

behind the practice of the canons of Varna and Ashrama in a

graduated manner is not the indulgence of desires, but

their graduated, scientific, systematised and cautious

fulfilment in a measure that is permissible and required

under the circumstances for the purpose of freeing oneself

from them finally. So, we do not eat because we want to

eat, but because it is necessary to reach a stage where we

need not eat at all. There is, therefore, a deep background

behind the psychology of the canons known as the Yamas and

a clear understanding of this background will help us to

practise these canons better.

See also:

CASTE PROBLEM IN INDIA By Sri Swami Vivekananda

http://www.sivanandadlshq.org/messages/caste.htm

OM

Pranam

> Dear Friends

>

> I find the Hindu Varna system as most

disturbing,disgusting thing

> about hinduism.

> It may be meant as way of division of labour or something.

> But today we find it as a real menace that has sown the

seeds of

> hatred mistrust among different communities of the

hindus. To the

> extent one particular community is refusing to be called

hindus and

> says it has nothing to do with hinduism and desribe it as

religion of

> brahmins who oppress the fellow beings? and horrible

violent God

> worshipping cult!!.

> Now my question is does Advaita can answer this question

what does it

> has to say on this,or if we understand advaita to be

practised in our

> daily day today life and spread advaita among people can

misgivings

> on this can be rectified

>

> Peace to you all

> OM

> Ganesh

>

>

> Discussion of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of

nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman.

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[Guest guest]

Dear Friends

 

I find the Hindu Varna system as most disturbing,disgusting thing

about hinduism.

It may be meant as way of division of labour or something.

But today we find it as a real menace that has sown the seeds of

hatred mistrust among different communities of the hindus. To the

extent one particular community is refusing to be called hindus and

says it has nothing to do with hinduism and desribe it as religion of

brahmins who oppress the fellow beings? and horrible violent God

worshipping cult!!.

Now my question is does Advaita can answer this question what does it

has to say on this,or if we understand advaita to be practised in our

daily day today life and spread advaita among people can misgivings

on this can be rectified

 

Peace to you all

OM

Ganesh

[Guest guest]

The Bhagavad Gita clearly explains what the

Varnashrama system is. Bhagavan Krishna says that the

4 fold Varnashram system was created by Him.

It is division of work according to division of

qualities (Gunas) and not division of work according

to birth. Advaita is a state of realization and it is

nirguna. Therefore Advaita cannot be practised, it can

be experienced. In fact there are puranas where you

are warned that you should not practise Advaita

towards worldy circumstances. Therefore for Him who

has realized Adavita there is no Varna (no Samsara at

all).

When a court prosecutor questioned Bhagavan Ramana

Maharshi as to "Which Ashrama (he was refering to

Ramana Ashram) do you belong to ?"

Bhagavan (who was the very embodiment of advaita)

said, "I belong to Atiyashrama". When he was asked as

to what that was, He replied, it was beyond the four

common Ashramas, Brahmacharyashrama etc.

Same thing holds good in Varnas also. They are meant

for the Sadhaka, not the Advaitin. For the Gita tells

us to worship the supreme according to pur duty and

our duty comes through Varna (by division of Gunas and

not birth).

However the aim is to rise above GUnas and hence above

Varnas too.

"Trai Gunaya Vishaya Vedaaha, Nisthraigunyo

Bhavaarjuna.

Nirdwandwo Nithya Sathvastho Niryogakshema Athmavan".

 

"The Vedas describe the divison of three Gunas.

Transcend the three GUnas, O Arjuna. Be nondual,

constant in the Self without attachments".

 

Regards,

Anand

 

 

--- Ganesh Deivasikhamani <ganesh_d

wrote:

> Dear Friends

>

> I find the Hindu Varna system as most

> disturbing,disgusting thing

> about hinduism.

> It may be meant as way of division of labour or

> something.

> But today we find it as a real menace that has sown

> the seeds of

> hatred mistrust among different communities of the

> hindus. To the

> extent one particular community is refusing to be

> called hindus and

> says it has nothing to do with hinduism and desribe

> it as religion of

> brahmins who oppress the fellow beings? and horrible

> violent God

> worshipping cult!!.

> Now my question is does Advaita can answer this

> question what does it

> has to say on this,or if we understand advaita to be

> practised in our

> daily day today life and spread advaita among people

> can misgivings

> on this can be rectified

>

> Peace to you all

> OM

> Ganesh

>

>

 

 

 

 

Get email at your own domain with Mail.

http://personal.mail./

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

"Another visitor asked Bhagavan [Ramana Maharshi] if it was not

necessary that the varnashrama differences should go if the nation

was to pogress.

 

Bhagavan: How can one say whether it is necessary or not necessary? I

never say anything on such subjects. People often come and ask me for

my opinion on varnashrama. If I say anything, they will at once go

and publish in the papers, 'So and so also is of such and such

opinion'. The same scriptures which have laid down varnashrama dharma

have also proclaimed the oneness of all life and abheda buddhi as the

only reality. Is it possible for anyone to teach a higher truth than

the Unity or oneness of all life? There is no need for anyone to

start reforming the country or the nation before reforming himself.

Each man's first duty is to realise his true nature. If after doing

it, he feels like reforming the country or nation, by all means let

him take up such reform.

Ram Tirtha advertised:'Wanted reformers---but reformers who will

reform themselves first.'

No two persons in the world can be alike or can act alike. External

differences are bound to persist, however hard we may try to

obliterate them. The attempts of so-called social reformers to do

away with such classes or divisions as varnashrama has created, have

not succeeded, but have only created new divisions and addeda few

more castes or classes to the already existing ones, such as the

Brahmo-Samajists and the Arya-Samajists. The only solution is for

each man to realise his true nature.".....

 

[from "Day by Day with Bhagavan", by A. Devaraja Mudaliar

page 93; 1968, Ramanashram.]

 

 

If someone has any doubts as to the above answer to Sri Ganeshji's

question, this list is not the forum to discuss the issue.

 

Regards,

 

s.

 

 

 

advaitin , "Ganesh Deivasikhamani" <ganesh_d@h...>

wrote:

> Dear Friends

>

> I find the Hindu Varna system as most disturbing,disgusting thing

> about hinduism.

> It may be meant as way of division of labour or something.

> But today we find it as a real menace that has sown the seeds of

> hatred mistrust among different communities of the hindus.

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

Hindus who feel offended by the Varna system should be aware that the

classification of labor by job category is prevalent almost every

where. Let me try focus the discussions regarding the Varna System

using three verses in Gita. It is quite possible to misinterpret

these verses and come to the wrong conclusion that Gita promotes and

protects the Caste System! The first starting point of this

discussion is repeat these verses again with their translations:

 

caaturvarnyam mayaa srstam gunkarmavibhaagasah

tasya kartaaram api maam viddy akartaaram avyayam -- Bhagavad-Gita

4:13.

 

"According to the three modes of material nature (goodness, passion,

ignorance) and the work associated with them, the four divisions of

human

society (Brahmin/Ksatriya/Vaisya/Sudra) are created by Me. And

although I am

the creator of this system, you should know that I am yet the nondoer,

being

unchangeable."

 

bhayaad ranaad uparatam mamsyante tvaam mahaarathaah

yesaam ca tvam bahumato bhuutvaa yaasyasi laaghavam -- Bhagavad-Gita

3:35.

 

"It is far better to perform one's svadharma (prescribed duties), even

though

faultily, than another's duties perfectly. Destruction in the course

of

performing one's own duty is better than engaging in another's duties,

for to

follow another's path is dangerous."

 

The above verse is Repeated again with slight variation in chapter

18:

 

sreyaan sadharmo vigunah paradharmaat svanusthitaat

svabhaavaniyatam karma kurvan naa 'pnoti kilbisam -- Bhagavad-Gita

18:47.

 

"It is better to engage in one's own svadharma (occupation), even

though one

may perform it imperfectly, than to accept another's occupation and

perform it

perfectly. Duties prescribed according to one's own nature are never

affected

by sinful reactions."

 

Are there any problems in the classification of human society into

four classes according to the `svadharma' of the individuals? The

answer is obviously no. Also such classifications are inevitable and

for example, universities classify their employees by: administrators,

professors, clerks and manual workers. Do we have any quarrel with the

universities? No, not at all!! It should be made clear to those with

doubts that the Vedic classification as spelled out in Gita is exactly

the same. Five thousand years back, all jobs can be classified into

four unique categories according to the ability of the worker. There

is no credible historical evidence to show that these classifications

were by birth. A Sanskrit proverb (I don't remember the exact words

in Sanskrit) declares as follows: "The holiness of a River depends on

the purity of its water and not by its origin; Also the declaration of

a person as a Rishi (a pious scholar) depends only by qualifications

and not by birth origin. The reason that we find the classification

as a menace because we have forgotten the golden rule articulated in

the above Sanskrit proverb. India's Vedic tradition is degenerated to

the present day condition due to lots of factors. In more recent

times people do recognize this menace and there is some progress in

the right direction. As an advaitin, our duty should be read and

follow the Gita with proper understanding and dedication. Let us not

wait someone else to bell the cat, each of us can contribute as much

as we can to eradicate this problem..

 

regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

 

Note 1: Gita's suggestion as stated in verse 3.35 is close to the

position proposed by Adam Smith, the architect of capitalism in the

well known book, Wealth of Nations. He argued that Division of Labor

is quite important for the maintenance of comparative advantage.

 

Note 2: I agree with Sunderji that any greater discussion on the

questions raised by Ganeshji is beyond the scope of this list.

 

advaitin , "Ganesh Deivasikhamani" wrote:

> Dear Friends

>

> I find the Hindu Varna system as most disturbing, disgusting thing

> about Hinduism.

> It may be meant as way of division of labor or something.

> But today we find it as a real menace that has sown the seeds of

> hatred mistrust among different communities of the hindus.

[Guest guest]

OM

Pranam

Very well spoken. You have spoken along the lines of Sri

Swami Vivekananda and Sri Swami Krishnananda.

It is a measure of the progress into the science of "life"

back into the Vedic era that the Saints came up with the

Varna Dharma. Present day sociology is not yet able to

provide answers to simple day to day problems.

Class exists in every society.

Pranam

OM

 

> Namaste,

>

> Hindus who feel offended by the Varna system should be

aware that the

> classification of labor by job category is prevalent

almost every

> where. Let me try focus the discussions regarding the

Varna System

> using three verses in Gita. It is quite possible to

misinterpret

> these verses and come to the wrong conclusion that Gita

promotes and

> protects the Caste System! The first starting point of

this

> discussion is repeat these verses again with their

translations:

>

> caaturvarnyam mayaa srstam gunkarmavibhaagasah

> tasya kartaaram api maam viddy akartaaram avyayam --

Bhagavad-Gita

> 4:13.

>

> "According to the three modes of material nature

(goodness, passion,

> ignorance) and the work associated with them, the four

divisions of

> human

> society (Brahmin/Ksatriya/Vaisya/Sudra) are created by

Me. And

> although I am

> the creator of this system, you should know that I am yet

the nondoer,

> being

> unchangeable."

>

> bhayaad ranaad uparatam mamsyante tvaam mahaarathaah

> yesaam ca tvam bahumato bhuutvaa yaasyasi laaghavam --

Bhagavad-Gita

> 3:35.

>

> "It is far better to perform one's svadharma (prescribed

duties), even

> though

> faultily, than another's duties perfectly. Destruction in

the course

> of

> performing one's own duty is better than engaging in

another's duties,

> for to

> follow another's path is dangerous."

>

> The above verse is Repeated again with slight variation

in chapter

> 18:

>

> sreyaan sadharmo vigunah paradharmaat svanusthitaat

> svabhaavaniyatam karma kurvan naa 'pnoti kilbisam --

Bhagavad-Gita

> 18:47.

>

> "It is better to engage in one's own svadharma

(occupation), even

> though one

> may perform it imperfectly, than to accept another's

occupation and

> perform it

> perfectly. Duties prescribed according to one's own

nature are never

> affected

> by sinful reactions."

>

> Are there any problems in the classification of human

society into

> four classes according to the `svadharma' of the

individuals? The

> answer is obviously no. Also such classifications are

inevitable and

> for example, universities classify their employees by:

administrators,

> professors, clerks and manual workers. Do we have any

quarrel with the

> universities? No, not at all!! It should be made clear to

those with

> doubts that the Vedic classification as spelled out in

Gita is exactly

> the same. Five thousand years back, all jobs can be

classified into

> four unique categories according to the ability of the

worker. There

> is no credible historical evidence to show that these

classifications

> were by birth. A Sanskrit proverb (I don't remember the

exact words

> in Sanskrit) declares as follows: "The holiness of a

River depends on

> the purity of its water and not by its origin; Also the

declaration of

> a person as a Rishi (a pious scholar) depends only by

qualifications

> and not by birth origin. The reason that we find the

classification

> as a menace because we have forgotten the golden rule

articulated in

> the above Sanskrit proverb. India's Vedic tradition is

degenerated to

> the present day condition due to lots of factors. In

more recent

> times people do recognize this menace and there is some

progress in

> the right direction. As an advaitin, our duty should be

read and

> follow the Gita with proper understanding and dedication.

Let us not

> wait someone else to bell the cat, each of us can

contribute as much

> as we can to eradicate this problem..

>

> regards,

>

> Ram Chandran

>

>

> Note 1: Gita's suggestion as stated in verse 3.35 is

close to the

> position proposed by Adam Smith, the architect of

capitalism in the

> well known book, Wealth of Nations. He argued that

Division of Labor

> is quite important for the maintenance of comparative

advantage.

>

> Note 2: I agree with Sunderji that any greater discussion

on the

> questions raised by Ganeshji is beyond the scope of this

list.

>

> advaitin , "Ganesh Deivasikhamani"

wrote:

> > Dear Friends

> >

> > I find the Hindu Varna system as most disturbing,

disgusting thing

> > about Hinduism.

> > It may be meant as way of division of labor or

something.

> > But today we find it as a real menace that has sown the

seeds of

> > hatred mistrust among different communities of the

hindus.

>

>

> Discussion of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of

nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman.

> Advaitin List Archives available at:

http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/

> For Temporary stoppage of your Email, send a blank email

to <advaitin-nomail >

> To resume normal delivery of Email, send a blank email to

<advaitin-normal >

> To receive email digest (one per day) send a blank email

to <advaitin-digest >

> To to advaitin list, send a blank email to

<advaitin->

>

>

>

>

 

 

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