Samadhi substantiating Texts and Knowledge vrs Experience

January 20, 2001

Samadhi substantiating Texts and Knowledge vrs. Experience

Last posted item following will be the substantiating texts from the

Yoga-Vasishtha Maharamayana of Valmiki on the enlightened mind of the

Yogi and on experience versus text knowledge....

LPI-last posted item

ST -substantiating texts

LPI:Now let this be stated once and for all and then it ends....

within

the communication of duality we use the term I to denote the one

speaking.... In reality there is no longer any personality that is

perceived - it died the moment of realization... So when that

statement is made it is not coming from mind.... it is not coming

from ego for there is no ego sense that remains... Neither can it be

stated that only Self remains.... For Self is a term that would seem

to denote personality... of which there is no cognition.... Simply

what remains is the emptiness of Being... One that says "I am

enlightened" and is speaking that the ego form is truth is

deluded.... But being that there are no adequate words as all words

come from the standpoint and concept of duality there is no language

that is correct....

On this line there are those that wish to split hairs so to speak on

each word used... No words can reveal Truth... they can only point

the way to... But truth is realized within alone.... No debate can

give the experience of the ego death.... For Truth you must lay down

the life entirely.... then you no longer remain... others see the

form speaking but you are NOT.... it is perceived (in realization)

only as coming from silence into manifestation as words... It is not

from intellect as you or self (ego) no longer is....

Why does advaita which means not two.... why do they not just say

One... because within One there is division and Brahman is ever

undivided...The One takes you to I Am That I Am...for I Am to exist

there still remains subject and object... the witness sees and stands

apart... it would be closer to say the O represents Brahman for it

within itself (and do not split hairs about the term itself) has no

substance, nor separation, nor sense of mind or thought... it is

empty in nature... yet it is absolute pristine awareness...Undiluted

Conciousness without any conditionings..... Ever Pure... Beyond birth

or death....there is no witness that remains... all has merged -

nothing remains except That Which Is.... Essense.... in that moment

when ego death comes Essense Alone Is.... then the I AM returns as

witness as long as there remains physical form.... but this I AM is

not the I AM of ego identification... it is the I AM of only

witness... but there is never the deception that ego is... words come

from the silence into manifestation...

ST: Volume 4 Nirvana Prakarana "On the living Liberation of the

Prince" Chapter CXXV

29: Listen therefore to what I will now relate, regarding those that

are liberated from their grossness even in their lifetime.

30: The yogis retain of course their knowledge of the concrete, in

their conduct of the external affairs of life; but liberation is the

virtue of the mind, consisting in its freedom from subjection to

gross materials, and subsisting in the mind only and not in the body

or its sensibility.

31: But as the bodily properties are inseparably connected with the

body, and its sensibillity can in no way be separated from it; the

liberated soul is therefore no way attached to it, nor doth the yogi

ever takeany heed of it in his mind: (his thoughts being solely fixed

in the soleity of the soul)

32: the mind of the liberated yogi, is never reunited with his body,

any more than pollen is ever rejoined with its parent stalk; although

the bodily properties of the living liberated yogi, ever remain the

same as those of worldly persons. (Freedom consists in the minds and

soul, and not in the bonded body)

33: the bodies of both are of course equally perceptible by all, but

not the minds which are hidden in them; the liberated soul cannot be

seen by others; but the incarcerate spirit is known to everybody, by

its addictedness to the discharge of its bounded duties.

34: Self liberation is as well perceptible to oneself, as his

perception of the sweetness of honey and the taste of other things,

are well known to himself; and One is well acquainted with his

liberation and bondage, from his consciousness of pleasure and pain

from the one or other.

35: it is thus by ones inward perception of his liberation, that he

is called the liberate; and it is also the inward coolness of his

soul, as well as the indifferance of his mind, that constitute his

liberation even in his lifetime.

36: Neither the bondage or the liberation of the soul, nor the

pleasure or the painfulness of ones mind can be anyhow known to

another; whether you divide the body into pieces or place it upon a

royal throne. (though the features of the face, are said to be

indicators of the inward mind).

37: whether laughing or crying, the liberated soul feels no pleasure

or pain therein; because it is situated in both states in the

unalterable spirit of God.

38: The minds of the liberated persons, are settled in the divine

spirit and nowhere else, even when they are in the act of receiving

or the doing of anything with their bodies: But the learned men of

the different schools are seen to be quite wise from their

unacquaintance with liberation; (and being moved by the circumstances

of life).

39: The bodies of liberated persons, are not affected by external

events, and though such a one may appear to be weeping, yet he never

weeps in grief; nor does he die, with the death of his mortal body.

40: The great man that is liberated in his lifetime, does not smile

though he has a smiling face; nor is he affected by nor angry at

anything, though he seems to be moved by affections and anger. (ie

his feelings are never lasting)

ganga comment - nothing is ever held nor grasped your karma and

nature play out but you are unaffected by the transient happenings..

41: Undiluded he sees the delusions of the world, and unseen by any

he sees the failings of others; and all pleasure and pain seem as

ideal to him....

ganga comment - all is perfection as it is - everything is accepted

as it is with no attachments to any outer effect or affects.....

42: Everything is as nil to the liberate, as flowers growing in the

garden of the sky; and the existance of the world is non-existance

unto him, who sees the unity alone in All of existance....

Continuing on about scripture knowledge versus experience; following

is this seeming forms experience and after is substantiating text to

support: once again from the Yoga Vashisitha Maharamayan of Valmiki

Experience:

There is the appearance of variences of thought concerning the

obtaining and securing the "Knowledge of Brahman". One is that which

is propounded by the teachers of Vedic Knowledge which state the

study of the Vedas is Supreme for the understanding of Brahman. and

the other is the mystics such as Ramana Maharish that say basically

that experience negates the need of scripture study - what is "Known"

is known.

Let this awareness be here unfolded that the both knowledge of

scripture and experience are hand in hand - and here is why -

At a young age there came upon this one an experience of samadhi -

while in that experience there was no appearance of time - All that

was seen in maya was known to be interconnected and without

substance - it moved as perceiving a dream... While all was moving as

one there was still the knowing that it was being perceived by Self

or I AM which was witnessing the events at hand while being in

absoulute peace - tranquility - and bliss... but not in anyway

connected in anyway connected to the happenings.... Now

this "experience" lasted for the span of time 3 days... after that 3

days once again the thought arose " I am seeing that all of the world

is connected - but I am not attached to any of it". With this

thought came ego identification and mind.. In that moment the

awareness of Reality began to receed... Due to the fact that there

was no foundational knowledge that which could have been a

springboard to realization - instead became an experience of Truth

seen and remembered but not sustained...

If at that point there had been the philosophical knowledge of Self

versus self - and maya etc. at that point there could have been a

total surrender of witness and the samadhi state could have

transcended from samadhi with duality to the Nirvakalpa state and

Realization.... But study of the Vedas cannot take the place of

experiential intuiting of Reality.... Only then is all at an end...

Knowledge gained through the Vedas prepares the mind and points the

way to intuitional dis-covery of the Reality which is Brahman.... But

it can never take the place of direct intuiting... For only then do

the illusions of truth all shatter and the need of the Vedas end....

SE: Yoga Vasishtha Maharamayana of Valmiki Volume 4 Nirvana-Prakarana

Chapter CLXXXXVII

16: the words and the significations (Which are used in the sastras),

serve only to express the intelligible objects which are signified by

them, as the season denote the season fruits and flowers which the

bear; but the knowledge of the Supreme Being, is derived from ones

intuition, and is felt in our conciuosness alone.

ganga comment: only through direct intuiting is the Supreme Known

never through the doctrine nor study of Vedas....

17: Divine knowledge is said in the sastras, to transcend the

knowledge of all other things; and the transparency of the divine

person, surpassess the brightness of all objects, as the beauty of

the female body excells the luster of the brightest gems.

18: The transcendental knowledge of the deity, is not to be derived

from the doctrine of the sastras, nor from the teachings of our

preceptors; it cannot be had by means of our gifts and charities, nor

by divine service and religious observances, can we ever know the

unknowable One.

19: These and other acts and rights, are falsely said to be the

causes of divine knowledge, which can never be attained by them; now

attend to me, O Rama, and I will tell you the way to your rest in the

Supreme Soul...

20: The study of the sastras, serves to of course purify the mind

from vulgar errors and the prejudices; but is the want of desire or

aversion to worldly enjoyments, that makes the mind look within

itself, wherein it sees clearly the image of God shining within it...

ganga comment : once again only in self introspection is it found the

study of vedas only prepares the mind to receive....

21: This sastra establishes right understanding in lieu of ignorance,

and this right reasoning serves to drive away all gross errors from

the mind at once.

22: The sastra or learning serves pricipally to cleanse the mirror of

the mind, from its dross of errors at first, and then it purifies the

persons of it possessor by the force of its doctrines....

23: As the rising sun casts its image spontaneously, on the dark

bosom of the ocean; so doth the luminary of sastra or learning shed

of its own effort the bright light of Truth in the minds of

ignorant....

Satchitanand shanti-shanti-shanti Om

January 21, 2001

Statements worth pondering or ignoring?

---------

--- Ganga Karmokar <crystalkundalini

wrote:

> On this line there are those that wish to split

> hairs so to speak on

> each word used.

Hari Om!

Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.

http://auctions./

January 21, 2001

As one becomes egoless,one realizes the splendour and wonder of one's own body

or sareeram or tanuH.The body is no longer Deham pervaded by ego,but it is the

Divine Chariot that creates concept of Time and Space,is a Divine temple or nine

gated city in which the Lord resides, a kshetram and to a realized soul- God

Personified!

A great Sage used to say that one is progressing into Self Realization when one

looks in the mirror and puts Namaskar or Namaste,observing a wonder of wonders

of God's Creation.

Ananda Sagar

Ganga Karmokar <crystalkundalini wrote: