Guest guest Posted January 23, 2001 Report Share Posted January 23, 2001 Vasant G Godbole [vashug] Thursday, August 24, 2000 4:40 AM advaitin Re: Provocative comment ***We all have a deep longing and a deep fear of the discovery of what we are, and the mind devises any way it can to avoid this discovery. The most effective way it avoids awakening is to seek it." *** Namaste, I don't think the statement deserves the caustic scorn and contempt heaped by Harshaji. _______ I agree Vasantji. I withdraw the caustic scorn and contempt that may have been heaped. My main concern was aimed at the last sentence which states: "The most effective way it (mind) avoids awakening is to seek it." Vasantji, the sentence being absolutist in nature appears superficial to me. The sentence is also logically absurd as it implies that "seeking" is the worst culprit in preventing realization whereas perhaps other "non-seeking" activities such as gambling, wrestling, engaging in pie eating contests would hinder Self-Realization less. I view the "anti-seeking" crowd as the modern parrots of nonduality. Even Ramana Maharshi was a "seeker" for the few minutes it took him to Realize the Self. To say that "seeking" effectively prevents Realization is good in theory but patently false in the experience of great sages. This "no seeking" sentiment cannot be taken as sound universal advice as it contradicts scriptures and sages who say that an intense desire for liberation and hence "intense seeking" is a prerequisite for liberation. At the time of Realization only "Seeking" vanishes in a natural way. Love to all Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2001 Report Share Posted January 23, 2001 advaitin , "Harsha \(Dr. Harsh K. Luthar\)" < > Ramana Maharshi was a "seeker" for the few minutes it took him to Realize > the Self. To say that "seeking" effectively prevents Realization is good in > theory but patently false in the experience of great sages. This "no > seeking" sentiment cannot be taken as sound universal advice as it > contradicts scriptures and sages who say that an intense desire for > liberation and hence "intense seeking" is a prerequisite for liberation. At > the time of Realization only "Seeking" vanishes in a natural way. > > Love to all > Harsha Namaste - There is a time for one pointed focus and seeking.. and there is a time for surrender of All... both must be... the desire for liberation must be absolute and the seeking must be one pointed... but scripture states also that there is a point where even the desire for liberation must be surrendered.... When all has been done that may be done and the wall is reached then ALL is surrendered... this is the point where the ego dies.... but the timing must be right... those that say not to seek will never reach.... nor those that continue to search when it is time to surrender will reach... this is why a Guru that is realised must be there to guide and instruct... in this timing is everything..... and the liberated One alone is able to guide one along the path which he has already trod an knows.... And yes upon "realization" there is no longer any search.. for only Truth remains.... Love and Blessings Sat-Chit-Anand Shanti-shanti-shanti Om Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2001 Report Share Posted January 24, 2001 Ganga Karmokar [crystalkundalini] Wednesday, January 24, 2001 12:01 AM advaitin Re: Vasantji/ Provocative comment Namaste - There is a time for one pointed focus and seeking.. and there is a time for surrender of All... both must be... the desire for liberation must be absolute and the seeking must be one pointed... but scripture states also that there is a point where even the desire for liberation must be surrendered.... When all has been done that may be done and the wall is reached then ALL is surrendered... this is the point where the ego dies.... but the timing must be right... those that say not to seek will never reach.... nor those that continue to search when it is time to surrender will reach... this is why a Guru that is realised must be there to guide and instruct... in this timing is everything..... and the liberated One alone is able to guide one along the path which he has already trod an knows.... And yes upon "realization" there is no longer any search.. for only Truth remains.... _____________ Seeking is due to Grace only. The seeking mind drops and merges into the Self, That Is Nirvikalpa. This is also not an act of will but due to Grace only. As I have said before, just as a constipated man who takes a laxative need not worry about what will bring the laxative out, after everything else comes out, the sincere spiritual seeker need not worry about what will stop the seeking, etc. Surrender to the Lord of the Heart happens automatically due to Grace at a certain point. The teaching that every desire, even the desire for enlightenment, must be surrendered is one of the highest teachings. It is understood clearly in the ending stages. The True Yogi with his depth of experience and knowledge and wisdom knows it intimately as his/her first hand knowledge and not borrowed knowledge based on second hand testimony. Sri Ramana has clearly stated that Grace is vouchsafed for the True Yogi who has made the effort with all his heart and mind. Surrender become possible then. Love and Blessings Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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