Ramana Maharshi on the dream state, dreamless sleep, and awakening

[Guest guest]

The Mountain Path

Vol. 1 - JULY 1964 - No. 3

 

Above The Three States

Nagamma

 

6th September, 1947

 

Last month, while my sister-in-law was staying here, the proof of. the

Telugu version of Vichara Mani Mala was received from the printer. In the

afternoon Bhagavan corrected it and then passed it on to me. On reading it,

my sister-in-law asked me the meaning of swapnathyantha nivritthi. I wasn't

quite sure myself so I said something or other but she was not quite

satisfied. Bhagavan noticed and said: "What is the matter? Is there some

mistake?"

 

 

"No," I replied; "she is asking the meaning of swapnathyantha nivritthi."

 

 

"It means absolutely dreamless sleep," Bhagavan said kindly.

 

 

"Would it be true," I asked, "to say that a Jnani does not have dreams at

all?"

 

 

"He has no dreamstate," Bhagavan replied1.

________

1 - Taken as it stands, this cryptic reply could be misleading. Actually,

the Jnani experiences the dreamstate as much as, but no more than, the other

two states of waking and deep sleep. Bhagavan did sometimes have dreams and

he might relate one to devotees, just as he might speak about some waking

action, but his Real State, as is explained lower down in this letter, was

beyond both. The state of the Jnani is referred to as Turiya the 'Fourth'

being beyond the three states commonly experienced. (Editor).

 

 

My sister-in-law was still not satisfied, but as people began to talk about

other things we had to leave the matter there. Only at night she said to me:

"It is said in Vasishta that the Jnani only appears to perform actions but

they do not affect him at all. We ought to have asked Bhagavan the real

meaning of this."

 

 

"You know how compassionate Bhagavan is," I replied. "He will find some

occasion to remove your doubts."

 

 

When we went to the Ashram at 8 o'clock next morning it so happened that

Bhagavan was just explaining this very point to Sundaresha Iyer. Eagerly

availing herself of the opportunity, my sister-in-law again took up the

subject. "It is not only the dream state but all three states that are

unreal to the Jnani," Bhagavan told her. "The real state of the Jnani is

where none of these three states exist."

 

 

"The waking state also is equivalent to a dream, isn't it?" I asked.

 

 

"Yes," he replied. "Whereas a dream lasts for a short time, this lasts

longer. That is the only difference."

 

 

"Then is sleep also a dream?" I asked.

 

 

"No," he replied, "sleep is an actuality. How can it be a dream when there

is no mental activity? However, since it is a state of mental vacuum, it is

avidya (nescience) and therefore must be rejected."2

________

2 - When thought ceases it can be superseded either by a blank, as in sleep,

or by pure Awareness, as in samadhi or Turiya. Sleep is, therefore, a sort

of dark counterpart of the luminous state of undifferentiated

BeingAwareness. That is why Bhagavan says it must be rejected as not being

the true alternative to multiplicity but only a simulacrum of it. (Editor).

 

 

"But is sleep also said to be a dream-state?" I persisted.

 

 

"Some may have said so for the sake of terminology," Bhagavan admitted, "but

really there is nothing separate. Short and long duration apply only to the

dream and waking states. Someone may say we have lived so long and these

houses and belongings are so clearly evident to us that it surely cannot be

all a dream; but we have to remember that even dreams seem long while they

last. It is only when you wake up that you realise it only lasted a short

time. In the same way, when one attains Jnana (Realization) this life is

seen to be momentary. Dreamless sleep means nescience; therefore it is to be

rejected in favour of the state of pure Awareness."

 

 

My sister-in-law then interposed: "It is said that the bliss that occurs in

deep sleep is experienced in samadhi as well, but how is that to be

reconciled with the statement that sleep is a state of nescience?"

 

 

"That is why sleep also is to be rejected," Bhagavan replied. "It is true

that there is bliss in sleep but one is not aware of it. One only knows

about it afterwards when one wakes up and says that one slept well. Samadhi

means experiencing this bliss while remaining awake."

 

 

"So it means waking or conscious sleep? I asked."

 

 

"Yes, that is so," he said.

 

 

My sister-in-law then brought up the other cognate question that had worried

her. "It is said in Vasishta that a Jnani seems to others to be engaged in

various activities, but actually he is not affected by them at all. Is it

because of their different outlook that it seems so to others, or is he

really unaffected?"

 

 

"He is really unaffected," Bhagavan replied.

 

 

"People speak of favourable visions both in dream and while awake; what are

they?" she asked.

 

 

"To a Jnani they all seem the same," he replied.

 

 

However she persisted: "It is stated in Bhagavan's biography3 that Ganapati

Muni had a vision of Bhagavan when he was at Tiruvottiyur and Bhagavan at

Tiruvannamalai and that at the very same time Bhagavan had a feeling of

accepting homage. How can such things be described?"

________

3 - See Ramana Maharshi and the Path of Self-Knowledge, p. 96, by Arthur

Osborne, Rider & Co. (Editor.)

 

 

Bhagavan answered cryptically: "I have already stated that such things are

what are known as divine visions." He then assumed silence, indicating that

he was not willing to continue the talk.4

________

4 - See the footnote on 'Silence', in Nagamma's previous letter in The

Mountain Path of April, 1964. (Editor).

[Guest guest]

>________

>1 - Taken as it stands, this cryptic reply could be misleading. Actually,

>the Jnani experiences the dreamstate as much as, but no more than, the other

>two states of waking and deep sleep. Bhagavan did sometimes have dreams and

>he might relate one to devotees, just as he might speak about some waking

>action, but his Real State, as is explained lower down in this letter, was

>beyond both. The state of the Jnani is referred to as Turiya the 'Fourth'

>being beyond the three states commonly experienced. (Editor).

 

Sir - j~naani does not dream and at the same time j~naani dreams -

both are correct provided with what reference state one is looking.

j~naani eats, sleeps, dreams, walks, breathes, etc, yet he does not

eat, sleep, dream,walks, breathes. But actually not only j~naanii

even the so called aj~naani is also in the same state. In both cases

it is only the prakR^iti that does it - prakR^ityaiva cha karmaani

kriyamaanaani sarvashhaH| all actions are done by prakR^iti only, all

the time. Only difference is aj~naanai identifying with the

equipments assumes that it is he who eats, walks, sleeps, dreams etc.

while j~naani knows that he is not the equipments and he is the one

who lends his support to the equipments so that they can do all

things that is attributed to. The second point is since j~naani

lives - life of aarjavam - a straight forward path - where there is

no crookedness and there is a prefect alignment of thought, speech

and action, there is no suppressions and oppressions, and if at all

they exist, they are minimal - hence the need for the mind to dream

to cleanse itself is not much even if it is the process of the

prakR^iti - the driving factors for the mind to have dream are very

minimal for a j~naaani's mind. Hence his mind's dreams are rare and

in between. while the aj~naani who lives the life of agitatated

samsaari will have to dream to cleanse his mind.

 

In both cases the dreams are products of the prakR^iti only -In both

case one does not really dream while the dream goes on due to the

nature of the prakR^iti. The j~naani knows that and the other does

not know that. The other thinks he is the dreamer. That is all the

difference.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

--

K. Sadananda

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