Guest guest Posted March 26, 2001 Report Share Posted March 26, 2001 PBV Rajan wrote (among other things): "Advaitins are Hindus who ..." I beg to disagree. I think most Advaitins may be Hindus, but not ALL need to be. I consider myself an Advaitin, insofar as I believe that all there is is Consciousness, and that whatever is perceived is only an appearance in Consciousness. But I don't consider myself a Hindu. I don't agree with many things that most Hindus accept (many gods, reincarnation, castes, etc.) ------ K Kathirasan wrote (among other things): "this list is for the discussion of Advaita Vedanta and not just Advaita". Could you please expound on this distinction? Miguel-Angel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2001 Report Share Posted March 27, 2001 >"Miguel Angel Carrasco" <macf12 >advaitin ><advaitin> > Hindu Advaita? >Tue, 27 Mar 2001 02:13:31 +0100 > >PBV Rajan wrote (among other things): "Advaitins are Hindus who ..." > >I beg to disagree. I think most Advaitins may be Hindus, but not ALL need >to >be. >I consider myself an Advaitin. YOu are absolutely right - advaita is not a religion - it is the essense of the truth and hence sanaatana dharam in a way. calling any thing about advaita is itself inconsistent with the understanding of advaita. I know Shre Rajan did not mean that. but words are always misleading. Hari OM! Sadananda _______________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2001 Report Share Posted March 27, 2001 :-) INTERESTING :-) If you accept the concept which starts with the statement "All that is there..." then what is that you are recognizing as that "All" in side the "All that is there..." :-) The "All" as perceived may differ from individual to individual. May be you are not aware, but by accepting the statement "All that is..." you are implying all the belief systems of the world... Specifically the things which Hindus believe in. If conscious can appear as a Tree, Stone, Ice-block, table, chair, human, bird --- blah blah blah... then why can't the conscious appear as Kali (as Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa seen it), Panduranga (As Saint Tukaram seen it), Ganesh, Hanuman, Rama, Krishna and thousands of other Angels who are listed in the epics! I think not being able to see the Angels, or not believing in any such thing, is a limitation in the personal consciousness (they are limited in their own thinking I mean).... Just like a person who is sitting in his home in India can't see a person who is dwelling in America, humans --- being limited by their own consciousness --- though intelligently think that "All that is there is consciousness" but not really up to that mark where they can see each and everything as consciousness :-) They know the rules of the game very well, but they can't play the game. Cricket Game is known by Millions of people. They can watch and enjoy it. However, only 12 people really stand on the ground and play it! I believe Advaita is a big game where you find millions of spectators but only few real players. No matter how much a spectator can tell-tale the rules of the game, the bliss can be experienced only when one really plays it :-) MEDITATE, MEDITATE AND MEDITATE ON THE INDIVISIBLE TRUTH EVERY DAY... EVERYONE SHALL EXPERIENCE IT SOME DAY! I hope I made myself clear... I remain yours, Madhava > > Miguel Angel Carrasco [macf12] > Tuesday, March 27, 2001 4:14 AM > advaitin > Hindu Advaita? > > > PBV Rajan wrote (among other things): "Advaitins are > Hindus who ..." > > I beg to disagree. I think most Advaitins may be Hindus, but > not ALL need to > be. > I consider myself an Advaitin, insofar as I believe that all > there is is > Consciousness, and that whatever is perceived is only an appearance in > Consciousness. > But I don't consider myself a Hindu. I don't agree with many > things that > most Hindus accept (many gods, reincarnation, castes, etc.) > > ------ > K Kathirasan wrote (among other things): "this list is for > the discussion > of Advaita Vedanta and not just Advaita". > > Could you please expound on this distinction? > > Miguel-Angel > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> > Make good on the promise you made at graduation to keep > in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million registered > high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click./03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/XnRVlB/TM > ----------------------------- > ------> > > Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of > nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. > Advaitin List Archives available at: > http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > Please Note the New Changes at the Mail Server > For details, visit: /local/news.html > Post message: advaitin > Subscribe: advaitin- > Un: advaitin > URL to Advaitin: advaitin > File folder: advaitin > Link Folder: advaitin/links > Messages Folder: advaitin/messages > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2001 Report Share Posted March 27, 2001 > >PBV Rajan wrote (among other things): "Advaitins are Hindus who..." > >I beg to disagree. I think most Advaitins may be Hindus, but not >>ALL need to be. I consider myself an Advaitin. Sri Sadanandaji wrote: > YOu are absolutely right - advaita is not a religion - it is the > essense of the truth and hence sanaatana dharam in a way. > calling any thing about advaita is itself inconsistent with the > understanding of advaita. I know Shre Rajan did not mean that. but > words are always misleading. Hari Om! I think, just as Advaita is not a religion, so too Hinduism is not a religion too. But when we speak in "vyaavahaarika" terms just as we say Hinduism is my/your/our/their religion, so too it is true to say, Advaitins are Hindus who believe in Advaita! I really don't understand how anyone can say they are Advaitin, and not Hindu! Advaita _IS_ one of the major Hindu philosophies, isn't it?? After all it is Hinduism that gave birth, nurtured and still follows and supports the Advaita philosophy. How can we imagine _any_ exponents of Advaita beginning from Sri Krishna, Shankara, Vivekananda and even till Swami Chinmayanandaji without Hinduism??? Is there any Hindu ritual or prayer that hasn't been influenced by the Advaitic philosophy?? > calling any thing about advaita is itself inconsistent with the > understanding of advaita. Well, when there is true realization of advaita, there may not be any need to "call anything" to begin with- who will call whom??!! But when we are discussing/learning it is pre-supposed we are in the realm of dualities and I strongly feel and believe that separation of Advaita from the Hinduism is like chopping off nice face of mother Hinduism for our convenience and say this is now a separate entity! This reminds me of the sad event that happened few years ago when someone even contested that Ramakrishna Mission was different from Hinduism and even tried to contest it (without much success) in courts! This doesn't mean intolerance or disrespect to any -isms or religions. Hinduism recognizes and respects all paths as equally valid. But this is only an attempt to give credit where it is due. With best regards. -Srinivas Nagulapalli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2001 Report Share Posted March 27, 2001 Hello Srinivas, As a Westerner, non-Hindu, let me take a stab at this :-) It all depends on how you define "Advaita." If you define it so that it entails Hinduism, then it comes out circularly that all Advaitins are Hindus. But there are two much more common definitions (D1 and D2 below) of Advaita in vogue these days. As I've heard in English among English-language seekers, D2 is much more common than D1: (D1) A bit orthodox: Advaita Vedanta is the philosophy of Adi Shankaracharya, also as expounded in the Bhagavad Gita, Upanishads and Brahma Sutras. Advaita is largely, but not solely, a philosophy. Studying it benefits by familiarity with Sanskrit, as well as with Hindu culture and religion. Devotion to one's chosen deity is encouraged - yet choice of one particular deity over another is not a large issue. One need not belong to any particular caste or nationality, and one may remain Catholic or Jewish, for example, and benefit greatly by studying Advaita. "Advaita does not require you to change your religion; rather it helps you understand your own religion." (Paraphrase from a monk from the Ramakrishna Mission, personal conversation years ago - he used the word "Vedanta.") (D2) Non-orthodox, popular, Westernized: Advaita needn't be Vedanta at all, it is just "non-dualism." It is the core of every religion, and crosses cultures freely. Sanskrit and deities not required, in fact many adherents are proud of not having these extra added accoutrements. Advaita shows up in the East as Zen and Taoism, and in the West as philosophy and psychotherapy, and as "satsang" taught by travelling teachers charging $100-$500 for a weekend retreat. The main teaching is "You are already That - Stop the seeking, embrace Love, which is your True Self." If there are devotional objects, they tend not to be dieties at all, but rather the satsang teacher herself/himself. Many adherents of D1 object strenuously to the use of the term "Advaita" as per D2! Many adherents of D2 respect D1, but believe that it puts a lot of extra, unnecessary stuff like Sanskrit into the mix. There is another, much more orthodox definition than D1, used on the ADVAITA-L mailing list.... Hari OM! --Greg At 06:32 PM 3/27/01 -0000, snagul wrote: >>>> > >PBV Rajan wrote (among other things): "Advaitins are Hindus who..." > >I beg to disagree. I think most Advaitins may be Hindus, but not >>ALL need to be. I consider myself an Advaitin. Sri Sadanandaji wrote: > YOu are absolutely right - advaita is not a religion - it is the > essense of the truth and hence sanaatana dharam in a way. > calling any thing about advaita is itself inconsistent with the > understanding of advaita. I know Shre Rajan did not mean that. but > words are always misleading. Hari Om! I think, just as Advaita is not a religion, so too Hinduism is not a religion too. But when we speak in "vyaavahaarika" terms just as we say Hinduism is my/your/our/their religion, so too it is true to say, Advaitins are Hindus who believe in Advaita! I really don't understand how anyone can say they are Advaitin, and not Hindu! Advaita _IS_ one of the major Hindu philosophies, isn't it?? After all it is Hinduism that gave birth, nurtured and still follows and supports the Advaita philosophy. How can we imagine _any_ exponents of Advaita beginning from Sri Krishna, Shankara, Vivekananda and even till Swami Chinmayanandaji without Hinduism??? Is there any Hindu ritual or prayer that hasn't been influenced by the Advaitic philosophy?? > calling any thing about advaita is itself inconsistent with the > understanding of advaita. Well, when there is true realization of advaita, there may not be any need to "call anything" to begin with- who will call whom??!! But when we are discussing/learning it is pre-supposed we are in the realm of dualities and I strongly feel and believe that separation of Advaita from the Hinduism is like chopping off nice face of mother Hinduism for our convenience and say this is now a separate entity! This reminds me of the sad event that happened few years ago when someone even contested that Ramakrishna Mission was different from Hinduism and even tried to contest it (without much success) in courts! This doesn't mean intolerance or disrespect to any -isms or religions. Hinduism recognizes and respects all paths as equally valid. But this is only an attempt to give credit where it is due. With best regards. -Srinivas Nagulapalli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2001 Report Share Posted March 27, 2001 In that case D2 is to be called Non-Dualism and not Advaita-Vedanta as A-dwaita and Vedanta are necessarily Sanskrit and of Hindu faith. They go hand in hand. No doubt the concept occurs in more than one society/culture/religion- just call it Non-Dualism in the non-orthodox, popular, Westernized philosophy!! Zen and Taoism in Eastern non Hindu Philosophy!! etc There will be no more confusion what belongs where and to whom. Geetha - Gregory Goode <goode <advaitin>; <advaitin> Tuesday, March 27, 2001 2:29 PM Re: Re: Hindu Advaita? > Hello Srinivas, > > As a Westerner, non-Hindu, let me take a stab at this :-) > > It all depends on how you define "Advaita." If you define it so that it > entails Hinduism, then it comes out circularly that all Advaitins are > Hindus. But there are two much more common definitions (D1 and D2 below) > of Advaita in vogue these days. As I've heard in English among > English-language seekers, D2 is much more common than D1: > > (D1) A bit orthodox: Advaita Vedanta is the philosophy of Adi > Shankaracharya, also as expounded in the Bhagavad Gita, Upanishads and > Brahma Sutras. Advaita is largely, but not solely, a philosophy. Studying > it benefits by familiarity with Sanskrit, as well as with Hindu culture and > religion. Devotion to one's chosen deity is encouraged - yet choice of one > particular deity over another is not a large issue. One need not belong to > any particular caste or nationality, and one may remain Catholic or Jewish, > for example, and benefit greatly by studying Advaita. "Advaita does not > require you to change your religion; rather it helps you understand your > own religion." (Paraphrase from a monk from the Ramakrishna Mission, > personal conversation years ago - he used the word "Vedanta.") > > (D2) Non-orthodox, popular, Westernized: Advaita needn't be Vedanta at > all, it is just "non-dualism." It is the core of every religion, and > crosses cultures freely. Sanskrit and deities not required, in fact many > adherents are proud of not having these extra added accoutrements. Advaita > shows up in the East as Zen and Taoism, and in the West as philosophy and > psychotherapy, and as "satsang" taught by travelling teachers charging > $100-$500 for a weekend retreat. The main teaching is "You are already > That - Stop the seeking, embrace Love, which is your True Self." If there > are devotional objects, they tend not to be dieties at all, but rather the > satsang teacher herself/himself. > > Many adherents of D1 object strenuously to the use of the term "Advaita" as > per D2! Many adherents of D2 respect D1, but believe that it puts a lot of > extra, unnecessary stuff like Sanskrit into the mix. > > There is another, much more orthodox definition than D1, used on the > ADVAITA-L mailing list.... > > Hari OM! > > --Greg > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2001 Report Share Posted March 27, 2001 Namaste Miguel Just to add to what Gregji has written. Advaita literally means non-duality. Advaita Vedanta is the philosophy of non-duality as expounded by the Upanishads (which happens to be the end portion of the Vedas, therefore Veda + anta (end)). That is the primary difference. In the Vedantic tradition, the sadhaka heavily relies on the scriptures as a valid means of knowledge (pramana) to know the Self. Since the Atma (self) is not an object of perception, the need for an external authority to show you the means to know the Atma is there. Here the Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita and the Brahma Sutras help one by being the external authority. Regards, Kathi > > Miguel Angel Carrasco [sMTP:macf12] > Tuesday, March 27, 2001 9:14 AM > advaitin > Hindu Advaita? > ------ > K Kathirasan wrote (among other things): "this list is for the discussion > of Advaita Vedanta and not just Advaita". > > Could you please expound on this distinction? > > Miguel-Angel > > > > Sponsor > www.debticated.com > <http://rd./M=170602.1361328.2950093.2/D=egroupmail/S=1700075991: > N/A=551015/?http://www.debticated.com> > < > <http://us.adserver./l?M=170602.1361328.2950093.2/D=egroupmail/S= > 1700075991:N/A=551015/rand=818873431> > > Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of > Atman and Brahman. > Advaitin List Archives available at: > <http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/> > Please Note the New Changes at the Mail Server > For details, visit: </local/news.html> > Post message: advaitin > Subscribe: advaitin- > Un: advaitin > URL to Advaitin: <advaitin> > File folder: <advaitin> > Link Folder: <advaitin/links> > Messages Folder: <advaitin/messages> > > > > Terms of Service > <>. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2001 Report Share Posted March 27, 2001 Hari Om Gregji: In addition to your excellent observations, let me add some additional historical facts. Jagatguru Adi Sankaracharya is unique in the history of India as he combined in himself the attributes of a philosopher, a devotee, a mystic, a poet and a religious reformer. Though he lived twelve hundred years ago, India and the world feels the impact of the life and work of this spiritual genius even today. Sankaracharya was born during the 8th century. By those times, Buddhism was widely spread in the country, but in a very much changed form from that of the pure and simple ethical teachings of the Master; Jainism also had its influence and a wide following. Both the religions, as per common comprehension, i.e. as per lay men's understanding, were bereft of the concept of God, with the result that atheism was becoming vogue and the general creed of the people. Hinduism itself was broken up into numberless sects and denominations, each opposed to and intolerant of the other. The religious coherence in the land was lost and, besides, many unwholesome excrescences such as the vows of the Saivas and the vamachara of the Saktas, Ganapatyas, Sauras and Bhagawatas which crept in, were corrupting the purity and spirit of religion. What the times needed was an integration of all thought so as to stop the waning of the eternal principles of Dharma, to arrest the religious decadence, disharmony, and discord mounting up among the various sects of the Hindus, and bringing about a moral, religious and spiritual harmony, integration and renaissance in the land. Such a mighty and stupendous task only God could do.... and Sankara came, undertook it and accomplished it too. During the brief span of 32 years of life, Sankara established firmly the Advaita Vedanta philosophy as the essential unifying basis of the Hindu Religion. He brought about religious harmony, spiritual coherence and moral regeneration of the country. Sri Sankara established Maths (Hindu Religious Missions advocating Advaita Philosophy) in four places; in Sringeri in the south; Badri in the north, Dwaraka in the west and Jagannath Puri in the east. He chose these places of beauty of their natural environments amidst snow-clad mountains, forests and rivers or on the shores of the ocean, places where heaven and earth meet and transport man's thoughts to sublime heights. He placed Sri Sureswaracharya at the head of the Math in Sringeri, Sri Padmapada in Dwaraka, Sri Totaka in Badri and Sri Hastamalaka in Puri. The establishing of these Mathas indicate Sri Sankara's realization of the physical and spiritual unity of India. He wrote in Sanskrit, the lingua franca of cultured India of those times, which alone could appeal to all the intellectuals all over the land. Sankara made the edifice of Hindu religion strong by his rational and scientific exposition of the Upanishadic philosophy so that Sanatana Dharma could face all the challenges during the vicissitudes of history till modern times. His contribution to Indian philosophy is so great and lasting that all the later philosophers have only tried to refute him or to elucidate his ideas. In foreign countries, Indian philosophy has always come to be identified with Sankara's Advaita. Sankara symbolizes the great Rishi-culture whose greatest exponent he was. In conclusion, on historical ground we can't deny the fact that Shankara's establishment and propagation of Advaita Philosophy was to revitalize the Hindu Religion at that time. He was a great visionary and the very first missionary of Hinduism to counter the influence of Buddhism and Jainism. regards, Ram Chandran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2001 Report Share Posted March 28, 2001 Srinivas Nagulapalli wrote : > I think, just as Advaita is not a religion, so too Hinduism is > not a religion too. But when we speak in "vyaavahaarika" terms > just as we say Hinduism is my/your/our/their religion, so too > it is true to say, Advaitins are Hindus who believe in Advaita! > I really don't understand how anyone can say they are Advaitin, > and not Hindu! Advaita _IS_ one of the major Hindu philosophies, > isn't it?? I partially disagree. Adavaita IS one of the Hindu philosophies. That's a historical truth. So far so good. But that doesn't mean I must consider myself a Hindu, if I am a follower of Nisargadatta. I may be an Advatin, but not a Hindu. The only thing about Hinduism that I like is Advaita. I profoundy dislike everything else, which is a lot. Miguel-Angel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.