Guest guest Posted March 29, 2001 Report Share Posted March 29, 2001 umbada [umbada] Thursday, March 29, 2001 10:10 AM advaitin Re: shri Sandeep Chatterjee's postings Ed is way out of line even on my list, which is known for it's minimal moderation. Has anyone else sat alone with Harsha at a table in a dark room with only a candle lit between the two of you, and conversed for an hour? has anyone here walked silently arm in arm with Harsha? I have. My support to all lists as they choose to be and to striving to know others. Things would be a lot different if we were together in a room and not on a safe email list. Jerry Katz Thank you Sri Jerryji for your support of all the lists and your kind comments as well. For those who may not know, the NDS and the HS had a joint retreat at the Providence Zen Center last summer. Sri Gregji, a co-moderator of this list was also among the people there. The pictures of the many wonderful people who attended the retreat can be found both on the HS and NDS files on . Glad the Advaitin list is calmer now. Thanks for the moderators for taking the much needed actions to bring the list back to the main course. We wish everyone well Love to all Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2001 Report Share Posted March 31, 2001 Miguel Angel Carrasco wrote: > > Thommandra, Rama K wrote: "Buddhha and Jesus weren't rude... Why were these > "dudes" (as Sandeep calls them) so considerate, polite and humane ?" > > I disagree. I don't know a lot about Buddha's life, but I do about Jesus's. > And he wasn't polite at all towards those he disagreed with. > > [...] > > Jesus sometimes even resorted to violence. Just consider this episode: "In > the temple he found the merchants selling oxen and sheep and pigeons, and > the money-changers sitting at their trade. So he made a kind of whip out of > cords, and drove them all, with their sheep and and oxen, out of the temple, > spilling the bankers' coins and overthrowing their tables. (Jn. 2,14-15) > > Or consider these words of his: "Do not imagine that I have come to bring > peace to the earth; I have come to bring a sword, not peace. I have come to > set a man at variance with his father, and the daughter with her mother." > (Matt 10,34) > > So don't tell me that Jesus was considerate and polite. > hariH OM! any enlightened master, if (s)he speaks aggressively or acts violently--if it pertains to being instructive, and not arbitrary prarabdha karma working through--does so out of compassion.. and spiritually oriented people can see that...can see their *intent* coming through. the individuals backing sandeep (who i feel wasn't mean- sprited himself, just in my view *relatively* misled about the code of conduct in this leela [sacred/mysterious Play]) seem to be enacting an agenda to evangelize their understanding, which is apparently based on the 'endgame' of the philosophical ego-Mind. i would caution them to however realize that evangelism--defined for example by way of the christian missionary to the islamic terrorist --does nothing but disturb the general peace of the society [of people's souls unfolding on the path they must]. however, even *their* element is vital to the overall Plan, as is the counter-admonition to them to be aware of their lack of empathy & vision [re the world unfolding as it must]. in short, there's nothing for anyone to really lose their cool over. the best advice i'd say for anyone is to follow the path that they feel has Heart. if they dont feel their path has Heart--and what Heart *is* they must do their best to introspectively investigate for themselves--then they should search till they find the path that does [at least for them...to the best of their understanding of it]. there are examples where evangelism is critically important too.. jesus, krishna, sankara, mohammed, vivekananda.... world-teachers who's mission was to restore balance to the prevailing a-dharma (e.g. over-emphasis on ritual-laden thus superficial religious forces leading to imbalanced social/ political consequences). namaste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2001 Report Share Posted April 1, 2001 Namaste. Jesus's "I have come to bring a sword..." has the unsettling quality of the Gospel of Thomas. Like the sayings of Jesus in the Gospel of Thomas, this saying may be seen as a statement of pure Advaita. Jesus perhaps was saying that with a sword of discrimination/viveka, one could cut through the personal attachments and identifications that constitute the bondage of moksha that covers up the atman. Regards, Kenneth > Miguel Angel Carrasco wrote: > > > > Thommandra, Rama K wrote: "Buddhha and Jesus weren't rude... Why were these > > "dudes" (as Sandeep calls them) so considerate, polite and humane ?" > > > > I disagree. I don't know a lot about Buddha's life, but I do about Jesus's. > > And he wasn't polite at all towards those he disagreed with. > > > > [...] > > > > Jesus sometimes even resorted to violence. Just consider this episode: "In > > the temple he found the merchants selling oxen and sheep and pigeons, and > > the money-changers sitting at their trade. So he made a kind of whip out of > > cords, and drove them all, with their sheep and and oxen, out of the temple, > > spilling the bankers' coins and overthrowing their tables. (Jn. 2,14-15) > > > > Or consider these words of his: "Do not imagine that I have come to bring > > peace to the earth; I have come to bring a sword, not peace. I have come to > > set a man at variance with his father, and the daughter with her mother." > > (Matt 10,34) > > > > So don't tell me that Jesus was considerate and polite. > > > > hariH OM! > > any enlightened master, if (s)he speaks aggressively > or acts violently--if it pertains to being instructive, > and not arbitrary prarabdha karma working through--does > so out of compassion.. and spiritually oriented people > can see that...can see their *intent* coming through. > > the individuals backing sandeep (who i feel wasn't mean- > sprited himself, just in my view *relatively* misled > about the code of conduct in this leela [sacred/mysterious > Play]) seem to be enacting an agenda to evangelize their > understanding, which is apparently based on the 'endgame' > of the philosophical ego-Mind. i would caution them to > however realize that evangelism--defined for example by > way of the christian missionary to the islamic terrorist > --does nothing but disturb the general peace of the society > [of people's souls unfolding on the path they must]. > > however, even *their* element is vital to the overall Plan, > as is the counter-admonition to them to be aware of their > lack of empathy & vision [re the world unfolding as it must]. > > in short, there's nothing for anyone to really lose their > cool over. the best advice i'd say for anyone is to follow > the path that they feel has Heart. if they dont feel their > path has Heart--and what Heart *is* they must do their best > to introspectively investigate for themselves--then they > should search till they find the path that does [at least > for them...to the best of their understanding of it]. > > there are examples where evangelism is critically important > too.. jesus, krishna, sankara, mohammed, vivekananda.... > world-teachers who's mission was to restore balance to the > prevailing a-dharma (e.g. over-emphasis on ritual-laden thus > superficial religious forces leading to imbalanced social/ > political consequences). > > namaste > > > Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman > and Brahman. > Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > Please Note the New Changes at the Mail Server > For details, visit: /local/news.html > Post message: advaitin > Subscribe: advaitin- > Un: advaitin > URL to Advaitin: advaitin > File folder: advaitin > Link Folder: advaitin/links > Messages Folder: advaitin/messages > > > > Your use of is subject to > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2001 Report Share Posted April 1, 2001 On Sat, 31 Mar 2001, f maiello wrote: > hariH OM! > > any enlightened master, if (s)he speaks aggressively > or acts violently--if it pertains to being instructive, > and not arbitrary prarabdha karma working through--does > so out of compassion.. and spiritually oriented people > can see that...can see their *intent* coming through. > > the individuals backing sandeep (who i feel wasn't mean- > sprited himself, just in my view *relatively* misled > about the code of conduct in this leela [sacred/mysterious > Play]) seem to be enacting an agenda to evangelize their > understanding, which is apparently based on the 'endgame' > of the philosophical ego-Mind. i would caution them to > however realize that evangelism--defined for example by > way of the christian missionary to the islamic terrorist > --does nothing but disturb the general peace of the society > [of people's souls unfolding on the path they must]. > namaste. I admire Frank's way of looking at it. I agree with Frank that shri Sandeep's posts did not show malice except a mis-guided tendency to use loose language which on the face of it, can be mis-construed. Particularly for a person coming from a Hindu background, such loose language towards what they hold in high esteem can raise serious objections. I like to take this opportunity to make a public appeal to shri Sandeep to submit his postings through shri Ram Chandran. We will all be winners in that. Shri Ram Chandran will make sure offensive language is taken out; there are some members of the List who think that what shri Sandeep is saying has some Truth and they will be happy to see shri sandeep's postings; even Sandeep may learn how Truth told in a gentle and wise way can go a long way and be conveyed much better; and we can all have a debate on what the Truth is rather than on how the Truth is packaged. I agree with Frank again that the individuals who were backing shri Sandeep seem to be on an agenda and such agenda-following, however, is not healthy for a List such as ours. > [...] > namaste > Regards Gummuluru Murthy ---- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2001 Report Share Posted April 1, 2001 Namaste, I fully agree with the assertion of Sri Gummuluru regarding Frankji and Sandeepji's postings. None of the moderators have anything personally against Sri Sandeep's philosophical ideas. The list moderators want to take this opportunity to thank all the members for their understanding and overwhelming support to the our actions. The list had 352 members before the episode of last week and we still maintain 352 members. We should thank the three angels who emerged from nowhere with the goal of disturbing the peace have opened our hearts for purification and correction. Consequently we the members have become stronger and more unified than ever before. As Frankji used to comment that all that happens are His Leela and we all fully agree. The list with the leadership of Sri Gummulur has undertaken all appropriate steps quickly and they have already been implemented. Members can send suggestions and comments pertain to list policies and guidelines to the Email Address: Advaitins warmest regards, Ram Chandran advaitin, Gummuluru Murthy <gmurthy@m...> wrote: > > I admire Frank's way of looking at it. > I agree with Frank that shri Sandeep's posts did not show malice > except a mis-guided tendency to use loose language which on the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2001 Report Share Posted April 1, 2001 Dear Ram. I agree with you. Those who can not understand their own "monkey mind" should be told quickly and politely so that they do not disturb the group. I do understand that everyone is in a different state, but if they can not see the alignment clearly they should be asked to have their own groups to satisfy their ego. I f I can not teach I should be willing to learn. If both are absent and I am trying to set things right for the Universe then I should belong to different groups! -- Vis ------------------ - "Ram Chandran" <rchandran <advaitin> Sunday, April 01, 2001 5:06 PM Re: shri Sandeep Chatterjee's postings > Namaste, > > I fully agree with the assertion of Sri Gummuluru regarding Frankji > and Sandeepji's postings. None of the moderators have anything > personally against Sri Sandeep's philosophical ideas. > > The list moderators want to take this opportunity to thank all the > members for their understanding and overwhelming support to the our > actions. The list had 352 members before the episode of last week and > we still maintain 352 members. We should thank the three angels who > emerged from nowhere with the goal of disturbing the peace have opened > our hearts for purification and correction. Consequently we the > members have become stronger and more unified than ever before. As > Frankji used to comment that all that happens are His Leela and we all > fully agree. > > The list with the leadership of Sri Gummulur has undertaken all > appropriate steps quickly and they have already been implemented. > Members can send suggestions and comments pertain to list policies and > guidelines to the Email Address: Advaitins > > warmest regards, > > Ram Chandran > > > advaitin, Gummuluru Murthy <gmurthy@m...> wrote: > > > > I admire Frank's way of looking at it. > > I agree with Frank that shri Sandeep's posts did not show malice > > except a mis-guided tendency to use loose language which on the > > > > > Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. > Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > Please Note the New Changes at the Mail Server > For details, visit: /local/news.html > Post message: advaitin > Subscribe: advaitin- > Un: advaitin > URL to Advaitin: advaitin > File folder: advaitin > Link Folder: advaitin/links > Messages Folder: advaitin/messages > > > > Your use of is subject to > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2001 Report Share Posted April 2, 2001 Try as I might , I could not say it better than you did, Frank. I have a firm belief that if a saint is harsh he is so ONLY with the benign intention of the others' spiritual upliftment. I also believe that when a saint is harsh, he is harsh towards a person performing incorrect actions. But I cannot imagine a truly enlightened person being harsh to another human being just because he holds spiritual views differing from his own. He might try to "evangelize" (as Sankara did) but talking * disparagingly * of another person's beliefs seems so contrary to the spiritual acme. > > f maiello [sMTP:egodust] > Saturday, March 31, 2001 7:59 AM > advaitin > Re: RE: shri Sandeep Chatterjee's postings > > Miguel Angel Carrasco wrote: > > > > Thommandra, Rama K wrote: "Buddhha and Jesus weren't rude... Why were > these > > "dudes" (as Sandeep calls them) so considerate, polite and humane ?" > > > > I disagree. I don't know a lot about Buddha's life, but I do about > Jesus's. > > And he wasn't polite at all towards those he disagreed with. > > > > [...] > > > > Jesus sometimes even resorted to violence. Just consider this episode: > "In > > the temple he found the merchants selling oxen and sheep and pigeons, > and > > the money-changers sitting at their trade. So he made a kind of whip out > of > > cords, and drove them all, with their sheep and and oxen, out of the > temple, > > spilling the bankers' coins and overthrowing their tables. (Jn. 2,14-15) > > > > Or consider these words of his: "Do not imagine that I have come to > bring > > peace to the earth; I have come to bring a sword, not peace. I have come > to > > set a man at variance with his father, and the daughter with her > mother." > > (Matt 10,34) > > > > So don't tell me that Jesus was considerate and polite. > > > > hariH OM! > > any enlightened master, if (s)he speaks aggressively > or acts violently--if it pertains to being instructive, > and not arbitrary prarabdha karma working through--does > so out of compassion.. and spiritually oriented people > can see that...can see their *intent* coming through. > > the individuals backing sandeep (who i feel wasn't mean- > sprited himself, just in my view *relatively* misled > about the code of conduct in this leela [sacred/mysterious > Play]) seem to be enacting an agenda to evangelize their > understanding, which is apparently based on the 'endgame' > of the philosophical ego-Mind. i would caution them to > however realize that evangelism--defined for example by > way of the christian missionary to the islamic terrorist > --does nothing but disturb the general peace of the society > [of people's souls unfolding on the path they must]. > > however, even *their* element is vital to the overall Plan, > as is the counter-admonition to them to be aware of their > lack of empathy & vision [re the world unfolding as it must]. > > in short, there's nothing for anyone to really lose their > cool over. the best advice i'd say for anyone is to follow > the path that they feel has Heart. if they dont feel their > path has Heart--and what Heart *is* they must do their best > to introspectively investigate for themselves--then they > should search till they find the path that does [at least > for them...to the best of their understanding of it]. > > there are examples where evangelism is critically important > too.. jesus, krishna, sankara, mohammed, vivekananda.... > world-teachers who's mission was to restore balance to the > prevailing a-dharma (e.g. over-emphasis on ritual-laden thus > superficial religious forces leading to imbalanced social/ > political consequences). > > namaste > > > Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of > Atman and Brahman. > Advaitin List Archives available at: > http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > Please Note the New Changes at the Mail Server > For details, visit: /local/news.html > Post message: advaitin > Subscribe: advaitin- > Un: advaitin > URL to Advaitin: advaitin > File folder: advaitin > Link Folder: advaitin/links > Messages Folder: advaitin/messages > > > > Your use of is subject to > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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