Guest guest Posted March 31, 2001 Report Share Posted March 31, 2001 Thinking of the recent turmoil, and my own need for repentance, I found the following to be balm to my soul. I offer it with love to others and with the hope we all can walk more fully in this Love that the poet Hafiz speaks of so beautifully. Steve I know the Way You Can Get I know the way you can get When you have not had a drink of Love: Your face hardens, Your sweet muscles cramp. Children become concerned About a strange look that appears in your eyes Which even begins to worry your own mirror And nose. Squirrels and birds sense your sadness And call an important conference in a tall tree. They decide which secret code to chant To help your mind and soul. Even angels fear that brand of madness That arrays itself against the world And throws sharp stones and spears into The innocent And into one's self. O I know the way you can get If you have not been drinking Love: You might rip apart Every sentence your friends and teachers say, Looking for hidden clauses. You might weigh every word on a scale Like a dead fish. You might pull out a ruler to measure >From every angle in your darkness The beautiful dimensions of a heart you once Trusted. I know the way you can get If you have not had a drink from Love's Hands. That is why all the Great Ones speak of The vital need To keep remembering God, So you will come to know and see Him As being so Playful And Wanting, Just Wanting to help. That is why Hafiz says: Bring your cup near me. For all I care about Is quenching your thirst for freedom! All a Sane man can ever care about Is giving Love! 'I Heard God Laughing - Renderings of Hafiz' - Daniel Ladinsky http://www.allspirit.co.uk/hafiziknow.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2001 Report Share Posted March 31, 2001 Thanks for sharing this Sri Steve Ji but repent not. You acted according to your nature, your Dharma, as all of us do and have to according to our destiny. Sri Krishna says to Arjuna in Bhagavad Gita that he (Arjuna) would be forced to fight even if he did not want to. Krishna pointed out to Arjuna that his very nature would compel him to join the battle. The lesson for Arjuna was to follow his Dharma (karmic obligations) but not yearn for the fruit of his actions. Let no one feel any guilt or shame in trying to do what they feel is right. There were many benefits also of the previous discussions. Here are some. The moderators gained more experience in how to manage situations like these. Sri Frankji had a good laugh at some of our jokes. Many members had an opportunity to get things off their chest and now feel better. I could go on with the many positive outcomes. Overall, it was a good time. We all had our roles to play and we played them well. After the play is over, there are no good guys and bad guys. Who was a hero and who was a villain is in the eye of the beholder. In any case, the heroes and the villains can sit down for a cup of tea if they have not identified with their roles. I suspect there will be many nominations for Oscar Awards from all this, both for the main actors and the supporting cast. Love to all Harsha stevenfair [stevenfair] Saturday, March 31, 2001 5:03 PM advaitin A message of Love for the Group Thinking of the recent turmoil, and my own need for repentance, I found the following to be balm to my soul. I offer it with love to others and with the hope we all can walk more fully in this Love that the poet Hafiz speaks of so beautifully. Steve I know the Way You Can Get I know the way you can get When you have not had a drink of Love: Your face hardens, Your sweet muscles cramp. Children become concerned About a strange look that appears in your eyes Which even begins to worry your own mirror And nose. Squirrels and birds sense your sadness And call an important conference in a tall tree. They decide which secret code to chant To help your mind and soul. Even angels fear that brand of madness That arrays itself against the world And throws sharp stones and spears into The innocent And into one's self. O I know the way you can get If you have not been drinking Love: You might rip apart Every sentence your friends and teachers say, Looking for hidden clauses. You might weigh every word on a scale Like a dead fish. You might pull out a ruler to measure >From every angle in your darkness The beautiful dimensions of a heart you once Trusted. I know the way you can get If you have not had a drink from Love's Hands. That is why all the Great Ones speak of The vital need To keep remembering God, So you will come to know and see Him As being so Playful And Wanting, Just Wanting to help. That is why Hafiz says: Bring your cup near me. For all I care about Is quenching your thirst for freedom! All a Sane man can ever care about Is giving Love! 'I Heard God Laughing - Renderings of Hafiz' - Daniel Ladinsky http://www.allspirit.co.uk/hafiziknow.html Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Please Note the New Changes at the Mail Server For details, visit: /local/news.html Post message: advaitin Subscribe: advaitin- Un: advaitin URL to Advaitin: advaitin File folder: advaitin Link Folder: advaitin/links Messages Folder: advaitin/messages Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2001 Report Share Posted March 31, 2001 Namaste Harsha: Thanks for summarizing the essence of Gita beautifully and I fully agree with your assessment. Honestly, we don't need the notion of the notion of destiny and we can just say that we acted according to our True Nature. We definitely do not control whatever that happened, happens and will happen. But we should take everything that happens as an opportunity to act and learn to accept the outcome without excitement or disappointment. Dr. Radhakrishnan, a great philosopher and a past president of India had an official visit to USA during early sixties. John Kennedy was the president of USA at that time and an official welcome ceremony was arranged in the Rose Garden. However, the garden ceremony was cancelled at the last moment due to rain. The venue for the welcome ceremony was changed to the East Room. President Kennedy just informed Dr. Radhakrishnan about the change in the program. Dr. Radhakrishnan, the philosopher told the President that none of us can ever control the event that happens in the nature. Dr. Radhakrishnan continued his remark and said: "We can't stop the rain coming but we can always take appropriate steps to avoid suffering from the effects of rain!" President Kennedy was a great admirer of Dr. Radhakrishnan and told him that the rain gave another opportunity to hear some wisdom from the Vedantin. warmest regards, Ram Chandran advaitin, "Harsha" <harsha-hkl@h...> wrote: > Thanks for sharing this Sri Steve Ji but repent not. You acted according to > your nature, your Dharma, as all of us do and have to according to our > destiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2001 Report Share Posted March 31, 2001 advaitin, "Harsha" <harsha-hkl@h...> wrote: > Thanks for sharing this Sri Steve Ji but repent not. You acted according to > your nature, your Dharma, as all of us do and have to according to our > destiny. <snip - to save space> Harsha, Thanks for your kind note. I agree that much was learned, and yes, I did act true to my nature <g>, and so would probably continue to speak the truth as I understand it. I would just try to do it with more love and compassion. Your kind initial response, quoted above, got me thinking about some of the ideas I have seen here on the forum, and in Ramana's writings, and if I may, I would like to use your words as a jump-off point for some sharing of viewpoints and questions. I realize that the whole concept of "repentance" is so tied to the orthodox Christian understanding of "sin" that any discussion can become terribly complicated, especially when talking to someone outside this tradition who may find the whole Christian concept of "original sin" appalling (as I do, by the way.) But if we can drop those associations for a moment, by way of explanation, what I would "repent" of is that which does not reflect the divine nature or Self. That is the One "nature" I would more fully and complete demonstrate, or to use a term from my own tradition, to "make flesh" or to make incarnate -- that is, embodied and lived as one's own life and unselfconscious sense of being. Humanly, as well as divinely, I see no divide between being and doing, or doing and being. They are one, and thus, as I see it, the only "proof" or evidence that we know Truth is that "do" Truth in our thought, actions, and life. Is not this oneness of being and doing what we love in the spiritual Masters? My Buddhist friends liken my perhaps nontraditional view of "repentance" to living out the second great truth of the Noble Eight-fold path: right intention, that is the wholehearted resolution and dedication to overcoming the dislocation of self-centered craving through the development of loving kindness, empathy and compassion. It seems to me that to achieve this, requires that one must always be ready, non-judgmentally and with a sense of divine Love as being the only reality, to "re-think" his thought and actions, that they reflect more of the divine nature in word and deed. While one might argue, from the highest standpoint, the Divine is beyond all human sense of right or wrong, as humans don't we need to have the recognition of some action as having been "wrong" in order to do what is "right?" Of what good would following Jesus in the Way, or the Buddha in the Noble Eight-fold Path, or your beloved Shankara in his teachings, if we could not make this spiritual discernment, and "re-think" our actions in light of the the Divine's call for greater loving kindness, empathy, and compassion? May I argue that "to repent" needn't have all sort of negative connotations; in my tradition, it simply means to "re-think" things in the light of divine Love itself, and to let thought and actions come into accord with that Love through our natural attraction to the divine Good, which is our only and true Self. Along the "way" or "path" I expect to do more than a little "re-thinking" lest I fall into the error that Truth can be "known" abstractly or intellectually but not lived and embodied. May I have your, and others, thoughts on these statements? With all respect and love, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2001 Report Share Posted April 1, 2001 stevenfair [stevenfair] Saturday, March 31, 2001 8:35 PM advaitin Re: A message of Love for the Group May I argue that "to repent" needn't have all sort of negative connotations; in my tradition, it simply means to "re-think" things in the light of divine Love itself, and to let thought and actions come into accord with that Love through our natural attraction to the divine Good, which is our only and true Self. Along the "way" or "path" I expect to do more than a little "re-thinking" lest I fall into the error that Truth can be "known" abstractly or intellectually but not lived and embodied. May I have your, and others, thoughts on these statements? With all respect and love, Steve ________ What you say is true Sri Steveji. A man/woman of good conscience will reflect on his/her actions and change if need be in accordance with the higher laws of divine love, nonviolence, and universal compassion. A continuous contemplative attitude towards one's actions and thoughts is a type of meditation and a great purifier of intelligence. Any spiritual practice with sincere intent and faith when carried out leads to Self-Realization. Love to all Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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