Reicarnation

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Anand Natarajan responded: -

>>b) we believed that it was possible to choose to

>>behave in one way rather

>>than another.

>This is a matter of realization. If someone threw

>burning charcoal at you, would you stand in its way

>saying I have no will to act ? Would you not rather

>say "I can choose how to behave" and move out of its

>way?

 

I suppose that belief in reincarnation does depend on belief in karma

(lawful cause and effect in action) and, crucially, upon free-will. I'm sure

I made a similar response (to the one that follows) once before to the sort

of statement you now make but received no satisfactory answer.

 

What you say just is not so. If someone throws burning charcoal at me, of

course I move out of the way but there is not an iota of choice involved.

Indeed (and if you observe, I am sure you will have to agree) in such a

situation the response is made before one has time to even think about what

to do. It is pure cause and effect at a subconscious level. There are less

dramatic situations where it is possible to imagine that one does have

choice, for example whether or not I respond to this post. However, given my

interest in Advaita (long developed in response to all of the experiences,

reading, people I have met etc.) and my involvement in the list, my wish to

air this topic (probably an egotistical desire to press home my point)

etc. - again there is no choice involved. It is purely and simply cause and

effect. It seems so obvious to me - why are people disagreeing? We don't

have to invoke Benjamin Libet, we can see it for ourselves in all that

happens to us if we open our minds to the possibility and reflect on it.

 

Dennis

[Guest guest]

--- Dennis Waite <dwaite wrote:

> What you say just is not so. If someone throws

> burning charcoal at me, of

> course I move out of the way but there is not an

> iota of choice involved.

> Indeed (and if you observe, I am sure you will have

> to agree) in such a

> situation the response is made before one has time

> to even think about what

> to do. It is pure cause and effect at a subconscious

> level. There are less

> dramatic situations where it is possible to imagine

> that one does have

> choice, for example whether or not I respond to this

> post. However, given my

> interest in Advaita (long developed in response to

> all of the experiences,

> reading, people I have met etc.) and my involvement

> in the list, my wish to

> air this topic (probably an egotistical desire to

> press home my point)

 

 

Thats fine Dennis, You have the free will to disagree

with me ):-.

 

Getting away from that quagmire, the Bhagavad Gita

says,

"Jaathasay Hi Dhruvam Mrthyuhu, Dhruvam Janma

Mruthasyacha.

Tasmaat Pariharyaerthe Na Twam Shochitum Arhasi."

 

"Death is certain for that which is born. Birth is

certain for that which dies. Knowing this to be

inevitable, you should not grieve."

 

Therefore if we consider ourselves to be an individual

entity (and therefore taking birth), death is certain

for that individual. This same individual will

metamorphise into some other individual depending on

the latent tendencies.

 

Therefore, a wise person who can get away from this

chain of births and claim like you do, that the Self

alone exists and nothing else, needs to first of all

become a Dwijaha (the twice born).

This means spiritual birth. Be born again in spirit.

Get away from body consciousness.

The Bhagavad Gita again says,

"Nainam Chindanti Shastraani, Nainam Dahati Paavakaha.

Na Chainam Kletha Yanthyapo, Na Shoshayathi

Maaruthaha."

 

"The weapons do not cleave it, the fire does not burn

it, the water does not wet it, the wind does not dry

it."

 

If you feel this Sholoka describes your experience,

then you have neither birth nor death.

 

 

Anand

 

 

 

 

 

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