What are Visishtadvaita and Dvaita?

[Guest guest]

Hello my Advaitan friends! May the

light of Christ, Truth, shine in

your faces!

 

Could someone please explain the

following terms for me:

Visishtadvaita and Dvaita.

 

The terms are used in the

following passage from "The

Teachings of Ramana Maharshi" as

edited by Author Osborne:

 

Questioner - The final state of

Realization is said, according to

Advaita, to be absolute union with

the Divine, according to

Visishtadvaita a qualified union,

while Dvaita maintains there is no

union at all. Which of these

should be considered the correct

view?

 

Ramana - Why speculate about what

will happen some time in the

future? All are agreed that the

"I" exists. To whichever school of

thought he may belong, let the

earnest seeker first find out what

the "I" is. Then it will be time

enough to know what the final

state will be, whether the "I"

will get merged in the supreme

Being, or stand apart from Him.

Let us not forestall the

conclusion, but keep an open mind.

 

I would very much appreciate if

someone could explain briefly

these other schools of thought,

Visishtadvaita and Dvaita, and

also, if possible, which

teacher(s) best present these

schools of thought.

 

Also, if you would like to offer

any commentary on Ramana's reply

to the questioner, I'm sure that

would be of great value as well.

 

With affection,

Steve

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Steve:

 

A brief outline of Advaita, Dvaita and Vishistadvaita philosophies

are provided below along with WEB sites which discuss these

philosophies in greater details. There are several other websites are

provided in the Bookmarks Folder at the Site:

advaitin/

 

Advaita: According to Sankara, God is infinitely higher than ourselves

and he is also infinitely near to us. He is nearer to us than our

hands and feet. He is the Soul of our souls. He is neither the body,

nor the senses, nor the mind nor the ego nor the intellect. He is the

"I" that is none of these and is ever-present witness to all our

experiences. He is our Atman and "He" is Brahman. He is the one

Reality beyond which there is none. Sankara's contribution to

philosophy is his blending of the doctrines of Karma and Maya, which

culminated in a logical exposition of the idea of non-dualism. The

entire universe consisting of Namarupa, names and forms, is but an

appearance; Brahman, infinite consciousness, is the sole reality.

Sankara's philosophy, the essential identity between Atman and

Brahman is called "Advaita." It is a known fact that Sankara was

strongly influenced by Gaudapada, who had great regard for the

Buddhist philosophy. It is obvious that Sankara was opposed to

Buddhist thought in general, but unconsciously influenced by some of

its tenets. There is an updated version of the advaita vedAnta FAQ

at<http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~vidya/advaita/ad_faq.html>.

 

Dvaita: Madhvachar's philosophy is "Dvaita". Brahman is Hari or Visnu

definable to an extent by the Vedas. He has a transcendental form,

Vyuhas, Incarnations are His parts and Laksmi is distinct. The

qualities of Brahman are it is fully independent, the cause of all

causes, supreme bliss, devoid of false attributes but possesses all

qualities. The soul is atomic, it pervades the body by intelligence,

infinite in number, Karta and Bhokta. Creation is the actuation of

what is in the womb of matter and soul by the action of Brahman. The

cause of bondage is the divine will of the Supreme and ignorance of

the soul (svarupa). The process of release is through whole hearted

devotion, study of the Vedas and detached karma. The goal is to gain

release from samsara and restoration of one's own individual and gain

all powers except creation and there is no return. The released

souls rise to the nature of God and never to identify with Him. They

never lose their individuality, they are only released from the

bondage of samsara. In summary, Visnu is the only supreme being; and

Bhakti is the primary essential for liberation. Madhvacarya believed

that Sankara's philosophy was a disguised variety of Buddhism and was

vehemently objected to Advaita: it seemed to him presumptuous for the

individual soul to claim identity with Brahman. (See the Dwaita

home page using the link under vedanta)

http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/1415/index1.html

 

Visishtadvaita: Ramanuja's philosophy is "Visishtadvaita" and has the

following features: Brahman is not nirguna but saguna, that is, it is

not impersonal but a personality endowed with all the superior

qualities that we know of, like knowledge, power and love. The

Upanishads, when they declare the nirguna nature of Brahman, only

deny certain lower qualities and do not deny its every quality. The

universe and individual souls are also eternal, but they exist as the

body of God, as it were. In other words, God, souls and matter

together form an inseparable unity which is one and has no second.

In this sense ultimate reality is indeed one. But the distinction

between God, souls and matter must ever remain. See the web page:

http://www.best.com/~mani/sv.html

 

Ram Chandran

[Guest guest]

>stevenfair

 

>

>Could someone please explain the

>following terms for me:

>Visishtadvaita and Dvaita.

 

Steve Greetings!

 

VishiTaadvaiat and Dwaita belive that three things remain eternal:

Paramaatma or Lord or Iswara, Jiiva-s, the individual souls and jagat, the

inert world. The first two are conscious entities and the last one is inert.

The last two are in subtle form before creation. Lord out of mercy creates

a groser form or manifested forms so that they can experience and exhaust

their vasanas. Like adviata the root cause for bondage is ignorance only but

this ignorance is in terms not realizing that jiiva-s are not independent

entities (aswatantra) and they can experience, act, perceive etc only with

the grace of the Lord on whome they depend. The jiiva thinking that they

are independent act in the world yoking out their experiences and in the

process get cought up with maaya and suffer the consequences of those

actions, involving self agrandizement. With the help of proper teacher then

learn the truth and by surrendering that supreme Lord they can overcome the

shakels of the maaya and reach the everlasting permanent moksha.

 

Moksha in advaita vedanta is to recognizing that Lord is the supreme and

soul and jagat is just part of the totality that constitutes the total body

of the Lord. As every cell in the body works for the totality, the jiiva-s

and jagat function for the service of total virat purusha or the universal

person, the Lord. Hence it is vishishhTa adviata, qualified monoism. Each

cell in the body is different but yet each cell is one with the body. The

Lord is supreme with infinite auspecious qualities in contrast to jiiva-s

who are always limited in terms of size (atomic size) and in terms of their

qualities.

 

In Dwaita the moksha is different from the above. Each jiva realizes his

true nature by the grace of God who is ever compassionate. He reaches his

natural state. Just as each vessel is of different size, each jiiva is full

with happiness to the extenst that it can be full (depending on its

intrinsic capacity). In Madva philosophy there is intrinsic gradations in

the hapiness capacities or just as even though each vessel is full the size

of each vessel can be different. On the same token there are also jiiva-s

who are eternally bad and these are called raksha-s and they reach their

natural state too. This is somewhat controversial aspect of Madva

philosophy. Thus some jiiva-s will be in eternal heaven and some in eternal

hell. VishishhTadvaita does not believe that. Being part of the Lord no

jiiva will be sufferring eternally. It is the ignorance that cause bondage

and liberation is the recognition that one is dependent on the Lord and

surrendering to Him - His-will, will be done, not mine not mine.

>>

>Also, if you would like to offer

>any commentary on Ramana's reply

>to the questioner, I'm sure that

>would be of great value as well.

>

>With affection,

>Steve

 

Steve - I am not qualified to comment on Bhagavan's beautiful answer. He is

asking us to focus our attention on the first immediate task and evething

follows. the final truth reveals itself once we surrender. Without knowing

my slef who I am, how can I try to know the nature of the Lord. When the

first thing is solved first, the rest follow and one can by himself not as

hearsay but the truth what is its nature.

What a beatiful advice by Bhagavan. Let us do what Bhagavaan asks us to do

and discover ourselves what is real nature of moksha.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

_______________

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[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <rchandran@c...> wrote:

> Namaste Sri Steve:

>

> A brief outline of Advaita, Dvaita and Vishistadvaita

philosophies

> are provided below along with WEB sites which discuss these

> philosophies in greater details. There are several other

websites are

> provided in the Bookmarks Folder at the Site:

> advaitin/

 

<SNIP>

>

> Ram Chandran

 

Greetings, O greatly beloved of God!

 

What a wealth of help and information you have given me and

pointed me to! Your own explanations are already greatly

helpful, and I will pursue the URL's you have pointed out.

 

These subjects are truly deep! It will take great work and care

not to come up with a superficial or pre-determined

understanding of these things. I must be open to Truth and let

Truth speak for itself in such matters, especially where there

seems to be such a divergence of views.

 

While I wish to engage these ideas with my intellect, I know I

must finally bow to the wisdom of all great sages who always

say, as the blessed Ramana points out, the final answer must

be in the knowing of what is the I AM. My own Christian/Judaic

tradition certainly includes this, though perhaps in variation on

this One great theme -- from the original revelation of "I AM that I

AM" to Jesus speaking from the fullness of the

Christ-consciousness, when he said, " As the Father knoweth

me, even so know I the Father" and "I and the Father are one."

Surely it all comes back to the One, as Jesus said, on the eve of

his greatest challenge, when he was finally to prove that no one

has any selfhood, Mind or Life apart from God. And what was his

unselfish prayer? "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art

in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us."

 

I know that in the great Unity of Good all the questions are

answered -- or rather, disappear with the questioner, and there

is only the knowing and being known.

 

What a joy it is to walk this path with others who love this Light!

 

Steve

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Kuntimaddi Sadananda"

<k_sadananda@h...> wrote:

>

>

> >stevenfair

>

> >

> >Could someone please explain the

> >following terms for me:

> >Visishtadvaita and Dvaita.

>

> Steve Greetings!

>

<snip>

 

Greetings, most gracious Sadananda! As always, your answers

speak to the heart and mind in a way that opens both to the

Light! As I said to Ram Chandran, who also blessed me with

his response, your answer has given me much to think about! I

would not want to have done without either of your answers, so

thank you for taking the time to reply.

 

In so far as I can understand and grasp the words and concepts,

I see and feel many noble and beautiful truths in Advaita,

Visishtadvaita and Dvaita! Does this seem contradictory? On the

face of it, many of the concepts seem to be in contradiction of

one another, and yet, I sense an underlying truth and

non-contradiction, even though they differ. Maybe it's like our

Buddhist brothers and sisters like to point out, it is neither that,

nor not that, nor neither that nor not that! And yet it is One.

Thank goodness it is not up to the human mind to decide, but up

to the awakening! What becomes each year clearer and clearer

to this pilgrim is that I need not worry about the final nature and

being of infinite divine Love!

> >>

> >Also, if you would like to offer

> >any commentary on Ramana's reply

> >to the questioner, I'm sure that

> >would be of great value as well.

> >

> >With affection,

> >Steve

>

> Steve - I am not qualified to comment on Bhagavan's beautiful

answer. He is

> asking us to focus our attention on the first immediate task and

evething

> follows. the final truth reveals itself once we surrender.

Without knowing

> my slef who I am, how can I try to know the nature of the Lord.

When the

> first thing is solved first, the rest follow and one can by himself

not as

> hearsay but the truth what is its nature.

> What a beatiful advice by Bhagavan. Let us do what

Bhagavaan asks us to do

> and discover ourselves what is real nature of moksha.

>

> Hari Om!

> Sadananda

 

Yes, I couldn't agree more. It's really the only Way. And yet I

would bet that we both also agree the interchange of ideas and

sharing we have here, when it comes from the true Heart, is truly

liberating and has no karma, only light and joy! In my tradition, it

is understood that to live in the Christ-consciousness it to be

without sin, even though one is in the world and participating in

the world's necessities, because in Christ, all actions are

creative acts of divine Love, and hence have no sin, no karma, no

illusion and thus are a good beyond good and evil. I rejoice in

this Light, wherever I see it, and it certainly is shining here in this

forum.

 

God's grace be with you,

Steve

[Guest guest]

Taken from Fundamental of Vishishtadvaita Vedanta by S.M. Srinivasa Chari

 

Advaita and Vishishtadvaita both cater to the non-dualistic view of the

universe.Though all schools of thought on non-dualism agree that the

ultimate Reality is one only, they differ widely from one another in the

manner in which the oneness of the Reality is understood. The fundamental

problem of non-dualism is to account for the world of plurality and the

infinite number of soul- i.e. the issue to explain is "How does the 'one'

become 'many' and how is the one Reality related to the manifold universe of

matter and spirit?".

The following are two different schools of thought

 

Advaita: Synonymous with non-dualism. Emphasizes the oneness of the

ultimate Reality and expounded by Sankara, and emphasizes that the "Universe

is not ultimately real , but a phenomenal appearance of reality". The

ultimate reality is absolutely and it does does not admit of any kind of

differentiation, either internal or external. Such an absolute identity

would mean that the ultimate reality i denied to the individual soul and the

universe. This non-dualism is advaita.

 

Vishishtadvaita: The system of philosophy expounded by Ramanuja acknowledges

three fundamental real entities- matter (achit), soul (chit) and "God"

(Iswara)- that make up the ultimate Reality. Though the ultimate reality is

One, the ultimate reality is not exactly the absolute one without any

differentiation since such an undifferentiated being is not conceivable.

This is so because one has to consider the reality of the Universe in which

we exist as well as the interactions which the individual souls have with

the external world. Vishishtadvaita explains the Ultimate to be One based

on the principles of an organic relationship between these three entities

that renders the different beings to still be considered as being one with

the

Supreme Reality. Iswara is the creator and the inner self of all things in

the universe and as such Iswara controls the Chit and Achit. Chit and Achit

are related to Iswara similar to the physical bodies relationship to the

soul within it. The oneness of the supreme Reality is to be understood as

"organic unity" and not an "absolute entity" - that is Vishishtadvaita.

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Nirbhay and Geetha" <nkgb@e...> wrote:

> Taken from Fundamental of Vishishtadvaita Vedanta by S.M.

Srinivasa Chari

>

> Advaita and Vishishtadvaita both cater to the non-dualistic view

of the

> universe.

 

<snip>

 

Nirbhay and Geetha,

 

Thanks for this further explanation of the concepts. This adds

further to my resource material and points to further areas of

research and study! I am most grateful for this input, as I am for

the other helpful responses.

 

The divine grace be with you!

Steve

[Guest guest]

--- stevenfair wrote:

> I know that in the great Unity of Good all the

> questions are

> answered -- or rather, disappear with the

> questioner, and there

> is only the knowing and being known.

>

-------

When you say,There is only the

 

'knowing':

 

Is it the 'ONE'that 'knows' or,is it the 'act' of

'knowing'that is refered to here?

 

And when you say,

 

'being known':

 

This act of being known is performed by whom?

 

------

 

In the great unity of 'GOOD' where is the question of

the existence of any thing other than "GOOD" at all?

And again, in this "GOOD" too,one 'O' is superfluous!

It is indeed "GOD" that remains as 'PURE EXISTENCE'

 

Hari Om!

 

Swaminarayan

 

 

 

 

Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices

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[Guest guest]

advaitin, Swaminarayan T <tvswaminarayan>

wrote:

>

> --- stevenfair wrote:

> > I know that in the great Unity of Good all the

> > questions are

> > answered -- or rather, disappear with the

> > questioner, and there

> > is only the knowing and being known.

> >

> -------

> When you say, there is only the

>

> 'knowing':

>

> Is it the 'ONE'that 'knows' or,is it the 'act' of

> 'knowing'that is referred to here?

>

 

No words can answer, but I'll try a few word constructs that

perhaps point in the right direction toward the inexpressible,

insofar is possible: The divine Knower knows. Mind that does

not know is no Mind. But Mind only knows itself, and this

self-knowing is the knowing, its Beloved. Self-reflection is the

conscious identity of being, the divine image and likeness,

spiritual Self-knowledge.

> And when you say,

>

> 'being known':

>

> This act of being known is performed by whom?

 

In the words of the founder of my tradition, "As the Father

knoweth me, even so know I the Father." Being known isn't

"performed" by anyone. Mind and its reflection is One. Being

known is the very nature of divine reflection. It's what the Mind

does. It knows Itself, and this Self-knowing is divine expression,

the divine idea, the Beloved of divine Love. Mind and its

reflection is One, and Mind's reflection knows it! Of course, this

pathetically inadequate verbal description of the Indescribable,

filled with necessarily self-contradictory terms and ideas,

certainly does differ, or at least *seems* to differ, from the verbal

description of the undifferentiated Monism of Advaita. So be it.

 

As far as what I know firsthand, all I can say is that at no time in

my prayer, meditation, and spiritual awakenings, have I ever lost

the sense of being known and beloved of God. In the daily death

of the ego, in that total denial of self that Christ demands, I also

have found no blending with God or sense that "I am God,"

though I am more and more feeling the Bible truth, "Ye are my

witnesses, that I am God." More and more I am sensing, (if

that's the right word), that my very existence is That which bears

witness to God, with no I or Ego apart from God. Are we on the

same page, metaphysically? I don't know. All I can do is what J.

Krishnamurti says -- go into the Silence and see. My reports

back from the seeing may be "conditioned" and moderated and

filtered by the physical senses and mortal ego, but I have no

doubt of the reality I am finding in the Quiet, where the True

Witness is always there. the beloved of God, the divine reflection.

 

But truly, these are deep waters and deep matters, my friend!

Who is "right" I leave to the awakening, but in the interim, it is

often salutary and even fun, to disagree about the logic and the

semantics, and if I haven't given you plenty of words and verbal

self-contridcitions to use in argument against me, I will have

failed miserably, don't you think? <G>

> ------

>

> In the great unity of 'GOOD' where is the question of

> the existence of any thing other than "GOOD" at all?

> And again, in this "GOOD" too, one 'O' is superfluous!

> It is indeed "GOD" that remains as 'PURE EXISTENCE'

>

> Hari Om!

>

> Swaminarayan

 

In the Unity of Good, there is indeed no question of anything

other than good! My original statement was a "relative" one,

such as spiritual seekers and teachers have had to use

throughout all time, speaking to the relative "appearing" to me, or

you, or anyone, of enlightenment or awakening even though,

from the absolute and abstract standpoint, there is no one to

enlighten or awaken! Almost any "relative" statement made by a

Shankara, or Ramana, for example, could be "corrected" by a

more absolute statement -- and sometimes it is by the very

same sage! But I, for one, would not want to do without these

"relative" statements, which help the student along the way, and

that speak to different states and stages of spiritual maturity.

 

As to whether the one "o" is superfluous, is probably simply a

matter of semantics, and relative understanding, and not

anything particularly profound metaphysically. To this little one,

God *is* Good, but a good that is self-existent, as you say, and

not a "good" viz a vis an evil. The fact that God, good, is not a

good in relationship to another (how could that be!) does not, to

my understadning, negate the absolute goodness of God,

because God, Good, is *self-defining* Good. When one feels in

his Heart that good *beyond* all good and evil, that is indeed

bliss! Don't even our Buddhist friends recognize this intrinsic,

non-relative goodness as extant, in their concept of

Dharmakaya? So, my friend, I'll just keep my extra "O" and I'm

sure I'm not losing my sweet Lord in doing so! <g>

 

God's grace be with you,

Steve

 

 

>

>

>

> Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices

> http://auctions./

[Guest guest]

Dear Stevenfair,

 

Your reaction is very much in line and with respect to

what is 'Good' and what is 'God'.

 

I have no contradictory thoughts emenationg in me when

I go through your posting .What all you have conveyed

is very much 'nectar' to me and should be so to any

enquiring 'Mind'.

 

Gaudapadacharya, in his karika on the Mandukya

Upanishad explaining the 'Ultimate Truth' has said as

follows:

"Akalpakam Ajam Gyaanam Gyeyaa bhinnam Prachakshate,

Brahmagyeyam Ajam Nityam Ajenaajam vibhudyate"

 

meaning:

 

'Unimaginable','Unborn','Knowledge' is unseparable

from the 'knowable'

'Brahman' is to be known which is 'Unborn' and

'Permanent' and this immortal 'Brahman' is known only

by and to immortal 'knowledge'.

 

Hari Om!

 

Swaminarayan

..

--- stevenfair wrote:

> advaitin, Swaminarayan T

> <tvswaminarayan>

> wrote:

> >

> > --- stevenfair wrote:

> > > I know that in the great Unity of Good all the

> > > questions are

> > > answered -- or rather, disappear with the

> > > questioner, and there

> > > is only the knowing and being known.

> > >

> > -------

 

 

 

 

Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices

http://auctions./

[Guest guest]

advaitin, Swaminarayan T <tvswaminarayan>

wrote:

> Dear Stevenfair,

>

> Your reaction is very much in line and with respect to

> what is 'Good' and what is 'God'.

>

> I have no contradictory thoughts emenationg in me when

> I go through your posting .What all you have conveyed

> is very much 'nectar' to me and should be so to any

> enquiring 'Mind'.

>

> Gaudapadacharya, in his karika on the Mandukya

> Upanishad explaining the 'Ultimate Truth' has said as

> follows:

> "Akalpakam Ajam Gyaanam Gyeyaa bhinnam Prachakshate,

> Brahmagyeyam Ajam Nityam Ajenaajam vibhudyate"

>

> meaning:

>

> 'Unimaginable','Unborn','Knowledge' is unseparable

> from the 'knowable'

> 'Brahman' is to be known which is 'Unborn' and

> 'Permanent' and this immortal 'Brahman' is known only

> by and to immortal 'knowledge'.

>

> Hari Om!

>

> Swaminarayan

> .

 

Most gracious Swaminarayan,

 

Truly Love is reflected in love! Beyond the words, it seems our

Hearts have truly met, and I am glad! Your quote from

Gaudapadacharya is sublime, and nectar to my thought as well.

I am not familiar with this sage, but now have been blessed by

his ongoing spirit of Truth, and I am grateful.

 

With all love and respect,

Steve

[Guest guest]

A postscript:

 

I enjoyed your quote so much, I offer this one in reciprocal

gratitude and friendship. It's from the famous Ch'an Master

Hung Chih:

 

"Silently and serenely one forgets all words;

Clearly and vividly That appears...

When one realizes it, it is vast and without limit;

It is Essence, it is pure awareness.

Singularly reflecting in this bright awareness,

Full of wonder in this pure reflection...

Infinite wonder permeates this serenity;

In this Illumination all intentional efforts vanish.

Silence is the final word.

Reflection is the response to all [manifestation].

Devoid of any effort,

This response is natural and spontaneous...

The Truth of silent illumination

Is perfect and complete."

 

Alleluia!

Steve

[Guest guest]

Dear Stevenfair,

I thank you for your quote.

 

Reciprocity is an endless chain.As long as the wisdom

of the great seers in Humanity is shared for the good

of mortals it should be welcome and don't you think it

should continue?

 

Here is a Vedic Scriptural passage for silent

introspection:

Na tatra Suryo bhaati na Chandra Tarakam

Nemaa Vidyuto bhaati kutoyam Agnihi

Tameva bhaantham anubhaati sarvam

Tasya bhaasaa srvam idam vibhaati.

 

Meaning,

There, neither the Sun shines nor the Moon nor Stars,

Neither Lightning shines,(Under these

circumstances)How then can Fire shine?

That alone shines,illumines everything,

By It's effulgence,all these ,veryly shine!

 

Hari Om!

 

Swaminarayan

 

--- stevenfair wrote:

> A postscript:

>

 

 

 

 

Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices

http://auctions./

[Guest guest]

advaitin, Swaminarayan T <tvswaminarayan>

wrote:

> Dear Stevenfair,

> I thank you for your quote.

>

> Reciprocity is an endless chain. As long as the wisdom

> of the great seers in Humanity is shared for the good

> of mortals it should be welcome and don't you think it

> should continue?

<SNIP>

 

YES, indeed! Truly a *beautiful* quote. Thanks so for sharing it.

Truly divine Love is reflected in love!

 

Alleluia!

Steve

[Guest guest]

Namaste!

Human mind likes to divide and compare or contrast

instead of focussing on God and enjoying the Communion

with Him!That is the reason why the humanity is

divided into so many religions and each religion

subdivided further into different philosophies.People

tend to see only the differences and to feel smugly

superior in their own dogmas or philosophical

approach.This is all a part of Maya.However God's Maya

is divinely enjoyable and educative if understood in

proper perspective,including all fields of knowledge

in this world such as music and

arts,chemistry,physics,biology,medicine, engineering

,literature and so too philosophy which are all

opportunities to take part in jnana and karma yogas

with Devotion to the creator of Maya.There is only one

Truth. the ONE and only God and the rest is all divine

play or asat.If things are not understood keeping

focus only on God,such religious and philosophical

differences led in the past to regrettable wars.This

is all mischief of ignorant human mind and ego.

Adwaita or Visishtadwaita or Dwaita were all teachings

of Revered Acaryas who were some of the

greatestscholars as well as devotees of God,like

probably all founders of great Religions.The three

acaryas had Geetha in their hand and God as their

goal.They all spoke the same truth and revelled in the

same devotion to the Lord (call Him Brahman,call Him

Narayana,or Call Him Sri Krishna).

Tridandi Sreeman Narayana Jeeyar made a profound

statement when he said that" If Bhagawan Shankara

lived long enough,there would have been no need for

Ramanuja."It is only the ignorance of the followers

that looses sight of God and stresses the

differences.To put it somewhat humourously,a child

sometimes like to hug the parent's bosom

(Adwaita?),sometimes likes to sit on the parent's lap

and speak to to the parent(Visishtadaita?,and

sometimes to play with the parent running around

(Dwaita?).Both the parent and the child get the same

Joy in all cases.Who are we to judge?

Ananda Sagar

 

 

--- Swaminarayan T <tvswaminarayan wrote:

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

>Namaste!

>Human mind likes to divide and compare or contrast

>instead of focussing on God and enjoying the Communion

>with Him! That is the reason why the humanity is

>divided into so many religions and each religion

>subdivided further into different philosophies.People

>tend to see only the differences and to feel smugly

>superior in their own dogmas or philosophical

>approach.

 

Shree Ananda Sagar - Greetings

 

I beg to disagree with you in terms of purpose of studying the

scriptures. Achaaryas' writings are interpretations of the

scriptures. With all due respects to Shreeman Narayana Jeer,

Ramanuja's disagreement with the concepts of adviata is not due to

fact that Shankara did not live long enough. If Shankara lived long

enough he would not have disagreed with his own philosophy. With the

life span of 32 years, Shankara could firmly establish the tenants of

Advaita philosophy and propagated reestablishing Sanatana dharma from

Kanyakumaari to Shreenagar. What Ramanuja disagrees is not with

Shankara but with the tenents of Adviata while he establishes his

philosophy. Whether Ramanuja's criticism of Advaita is valid or not

has to be objectively examined since I do not think Ramanuja wants us

to accept blindly his criticism of advaita without examining them.

By the by I will be meeting Shreeman Narayana Jeer precisely to

discuss these when he visits here this August.

 

One needs to examine the role of philosophical discussions. It is

not intended to disagree with the previous achaarya-s not to divide

and develop dogmas but to establish the truth based on scriptures.

This is the very essence of philosophical approaches where debates

and discussions are very essence of our religion and time-honored

approach. The problem comes only if one blindly follows without

proper inquiry - dogmas are created and nurtured only by immature

minds.

 

Love for God is one aspect but understanding God and the nature of

the goal is very important as emphasized by all the three

achaarya-s. It is not the yoga-s, which is superior that we are

discussing. Path depends on the nature of Goal. Hence understanding

of the nature of the Goal is as important as the path itself. I

cannot drive a car without knowing where I am going. As we are

discussing in the Brahmasuutra-s now, the nature of the path, karma

or upaasana or j~naaa has been debated by the achaarya-s considering

the nature of the goal itself. Yes, human intellect tries to divide

but also has the capacity to integrate and that is where the wisdom

lies. While improper knowledge can lead to arrogance, bhakti

without proper understanding can lead to fanaticism too. If one

listens to Hare Krishana-s you will know what I mean. It is not the

religion that is cause of division , but lack of understanding of

what religion means. Fanaticism and dogma-s arise only due to

improper understanding - and that is precisely the reason why

discussions are important.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

>

>Ananda Sagar

>

--

K. Sadananda

Code 6323

Naval Research Laboratory

Washington D.C. 20375

Voice (202)767-2117

Fax:(202)767-2623

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

Different philosophies were preached by

different teachers as they were all another aspect of

the same truth. Having said that, the only philosphy

that can unite all different beliefs is Advaita. When

Buddhism was "invading" Hinduism, it was the Advaitic

philosophy that was the restoring force.

Similarly when the British western concepts were

"invading" the ancient Hindu culture, it was again

Advaita in the form of Sri Ramakrishna, Sri Ramana

Maharshi etc which restored the ancient teachings.

Advaita forms the bedrock upon which all other

philosophies can exist.

However when the sadhaka is ripe enough for Bhakthi,

who cares for all these philosophies. In the Shiva

Mahimnah Stotram, Sri Pushpadanta expounds the glories

of Lord Shiva and then says,

"Tava Tatvam Na Janaami Keedrishosi Maheshwarah.

Yadrishoosi Mahadeva Thadrishaaya Namo Namaha."

 

"I have no clue as to your real nature, o Supreme

Lord.

However You are O' great Lord, To That I bow again

and again".

 

Is'nt this true knowledge? Who can know the supreme

through what philosophy ?

 

Regards,

Anand

 

 

 

 

 

 

Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices

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[Guest guest]

Dear Sada,

Namaste!

Thank you for your lucid clarification.I have always

become wiser by your postings.

Regards

Ananda Sagar

--- "K. Sadananda" <sada wrote:

>

>

> >Namaste!

> >Human mind likes to divide and compare or contrast

> >instead of focussing on God and enjoying the

> Communion

> >with Him! That is the reason why the humanity is

> >divided into so many religions and each religion

> >subdivided further into different

> philosophies.People

> >tend to see only the differences and to feel smugly

> >superior in their own dogmas or philosophical

> >approach.

>

> Shree Ananda Sagar - Greetings

>

> I beg to disagree with you in terms of purpose of

> studying the

> scriptures. Achaaryas' writings are interpretations

> of the

> scriptures. With all due respects to Shreeman

> Narayana Jeer,

> Ramanuja's disagreement with the concepts of adviata

> is not due to

> fact that Shankara did not live long enough. If

> Shankara lived long

> enough he would not have disagreed with his own

> philosophy. With the

> life span of 32 years, Shankara could firmly

> establish the tenants of

> Advaita philosophy and propagated reestablishing

> Sanatana dharma from

> Kanyakumaari to Shreenagar. What Ramanuja disagrees

> is not with

> Shankara but with the tenents of Adviata while he

> establishes his

> philosophy. Whether Ramanuja's criticism of Advaita

> is valid or not

> has to be objectively examined since I do not think

> Ramanuja wants us

> to accept blindly his criticism of advaita without

> examining them.

> By the by I will be meeting Shreeman Narayana Jeer

> precisely to

> discuss these when he visits here this August.

>

> One needs to examine the role of philosophical

> discussions. It is

> not intended to disagree with the previous

> achaarya-s not to divide

> and develop dogmas but to establish the truth based

> on scriptures.

> This is the very essence of philosophical approaches

> where debates

> and discussions are very essence of our religion and

> time-honored

> approach. The problem comes only if one blindly

> follows without

> proper inquiry - dogmas are created and nurtured

> only by immature

> minds.

>

> Love for God is one aspect but understanding God and

> the nature of

> the goal is very important as emphasized by all the

> three

> achaarya-s. It is not the yoga-s, which is superior

> that we are

> discussing. Path depends on the nature of Goal.

> Hence understanding

> of the nature of the Goal is as important as the

> path itself. I

> cannot drive a car without knowing where I am going.

> As we are

> discussing in the Brahmasuutra-s now, the nature of

> the path, karma

> or upaasana or j~naaa has been debated by the

> achaarya-s considering

> the nature of the goal itself. Yes, human intellect

> tries to divide

> but also has the capacity to integrate and that is

> where the wisdom

> lies. While improper knowledge can lead to

> arrogance, bhakti

> without proper understanding can lead to fanaticism

> too. If one

> listens to Hare Krishana-s you will know what I

> mean. It is not the

> religion that is cause of division , but lack of

> understanding of

> what religion means. Fanaticism and dogma-s arise

> only due to

> improper understanding - and that is precisely the

> reason why

> discussions are important.

>

> Hari Om!

> Sadananda

>

>

> >

> >Ananda Sagar

> >

> --

> K. Sadananda

> Code 6323

> Naval Research Laboratory

> Washington D.C. 20375

> Voice (202)767-2117

> Fax:(202)767-2623

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

 

 

 

 

Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices

http://auctions./

[Guest guest]

other

> can exist.

> However when the sadhaka is ripe enough for Bhakthi,

> who cares for all these philosophies. In the Shiva

> Mahimnah Stotram, Sri Pushpadanta expounds the

> glories

> of Lord Shiva and then says,

> "Tava Tatvam Na Janaami Keedrishosi Maheshwarah.

> Yadrishoosi Mahadeva Thadrishaaya Namo Namaha."

>

> "I have no clue as to your real nature, o Supreme

> Lord.

> However You are O' great Lord, To That I bow again

> and again".

>

> Is'nt this true knowledge? Who can know the supreme

> through what philosophy ?

>

> Regards,

> Anand

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Auctions - buy the things you want at great

> prices

> http://auctions./

>

 

 

 

 

Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices

http://auctions./

[Guest guest]

--- Anand Natarajan <harihara.geo wrote:

Namaste Anandji,

 

Your quote is very inspiring.Whether we call Him as

Brahman,or Narayana or Vishnu or SrI Krishna or Shiva,

or Shakti,Durga,or Lakshmi or Saraswati,or Hanuman or

Sri Rama or Allah,or Jesus or God -He or She- or

whatever namr we call Him, He is the only ONE-the

Supreme Lord beyond all human comprehension !Yet He is

our Dearest Friend,Father,Mother and our own inner

Self seated in our hearts ever present to answer our

prayers offered in Bhakti.

Ananda Sagar

> However when the sadhaka is ripe enough for Bhakthi,

> who cares for all these philosophies. In the Shiva

> Mahimnah Stotram, Sri Pushpadanta expounds the

> glories

> of Lord Shiva and then says,

> "Tava Tatvam Na Janaami Keedrishosi Maheshwarah.

> Yadrishoosi Mahadeva Thadrishaaya Namo Namaha."

>

> "I have no clue as to your real nature, o Supreme

> Lord.

> However You are O' great Lord, To That I bow again

> and again".

>

> Is'nt this true knowledge? Who can know the supreme

> through what philosophy ?

>

> Regards,

> Anand

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Auctions - buy the things you want at great

> prices

> http://auctions./

>

 

 

 

 

Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices

http://auctions./

[Guest guest]

advaitin, BTA SAGAR <btasagar> wrote:

>

> --- Anand Natarajan <harihara.geo> wrote:

> Namaste Anandji,

>

> Your quote is very inspiring.Whether we call Him as

> Brahman,or Narayana or Vishnu or SrI Krishna or Shiva,

> or Shakti,Durga,or Lakshmi or Saraswati,or Hanuman or

> Sri Rama or Allah,or Jesus or God -He or She- or

> whatever namr we call Him, He is the only ONE-the

> Supreme Lord beyond all human comprehension !Yet He is

> our Dearest Friend,Father,Mother and our own inner

> Self seated in our hearts ever present to answer our

> prayers offered in Bhakti.

> Ananda Sagar

 

Amen, amen, and forever, amen! In nothing does God seem

more truly divine than in this ineffable intimacy! The human mind

and reason can go far, and are necessary, but it has always

seemed to me that divine Love, revealing itself in our Heart and

yet closer than thought itself, truly gives the highest idea of Deity!

 

God bless!

Steve

[Guest guest]

Namaste!

 

Even if we assume that there are differences in

approaches between these philosophies,the all powerful

Akmighty merely out of His supreme Love and compassion

for the devotees or acaryas can-ofcourse can-

completely fulfil each of their wish of satisfying

different philosophies or different approaches in

every respect at the same time and simultaneously,

just as a loving parent condescends to satisfy

different tastes of his off spring.In whatever way we

approach Him,He also approaches us and gives us the

Bliss of Communion with Him,which is the Ultimate

Goal.That is the unconditional love of the Supreme

Lord,our Father!We cannot bind God to a single dogma.

 

Ananda Sagar.

--- stevenfair wrote:

> advaitin, BTA SAGAR <btasagar>

> wrote:

> >

> > --- Anand Natarajan <harihara.geo> wrote:

> > Namaste Anandji,

> >

> > Your quote is very inspiring.Whether we call Him

> as

> > Brahman,or Narayana or Vishnu or SrI Krishna or

> Shiva,

> > or Shakti,Durga,or Lakshmi or Saraswati,or Hanuman

> or

> > Sri Rama or Allah,or Jesus or God -He or She- or

> > whatever namr we call Him, He is the only ONE-the

> > Supreme Lord beyond all human comprehension !Yet

> He is

> > our Dearest Friend,Father,Mother and our own inner

> > Self seated in our hearts ever present to answer

> our

> > prayers offered in Bhakti.

> > Ananda Sagar

>

> Amen, amen, and forever, amen! In nothing does God

> seem

> more truly divine than in this ineffable intimacy!

> The human mind

> and reason can go far, and are necessary, but it has

> always

> seemed to me that divine Love, revealing itself in

> our Heart and

> yet closer than thought itself, truly gives the

> highest idea of Deity!

>

> God bless!

> Steve

>

>

 

 

 

 

Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices

http://auctions./

[Guest guest]

advaitin, BTA SAGAR <btasagar> wrote:

> Namaste!

>

> Even if we assume that there are differences in

> approaches between these philosophies,the all powerful

> Akmighty merely out of His supreme Love and compassion

> for the devotees or acaryas can-ofcourse can-

> completely fulfil each of their wish of satisfying

> different philosophies or different approaches in

> every respect at the same time and simultaneously,

> just as a loving parent condescends to satisfy

> different tastes of his off spring.In whatever way we

> approach Him,He also approaches us and gives us the

> Bliss of Communion with Him,which is the Ultimate

> Goal.That is the unconditional love of the Supreme

> Lord,our Father!We cannot bind God to a single dogma.

>

 

Truly God's grace is limitless, His patience endless. In my own

tradition, I love the great parable of the prodigal son, which in

beautiful metaphor gives this image of God's unconditional love:'

 

It begins with the prodigal saying in a moment of awakening,

when all human joys have fled: "I will arise and go to my father,

and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and

before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make

me as one of thy hired servants."

 

"And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a

great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran,

and fell on his neck, and kissed him."

 

Such is the love of our Father-Mother. While yet a "great way off"

divine Love itself comes to meet us, whenever we awaken to

remember Him.

 

Truly, God is Love!

Steve