Guest guest Posted May 8, 2001 Report Share Posted May 8, 2001 Dear Listers, I'd like to have some information from the learned listers on the influence of Advaita on the bhakti movement of the Alvars and the Nayanmars. It is possible that there was no influence as: 1. The Alvars and Nayanmars themselves are dated by scholars to a period between 600 AD and 850 AD. I notice from other sites and scholarly literature that Adi Sankara's avatara is dated by some to 788 AD. The earliest epigraphic notice of the celebrated acharya is around 1068 AD. This objection may be answered by looking into the teachings of Adi Sankara's acharyas and pracharyas ... in general the acharyic lineage. 2. Since the Bhakti saints insisted on the notion of personal god and place of worship, it is possible that their concerns were somewhat different from the topics addressed by Adi Sankara in his most influential writings like the Bhashyas. This objection may be answered by illustrations where , in their general tattva, the bhakti saints can be shown to be presenting advaita views. 3. A few verses in the Bhakti corpus look askance at what is refered to as "maayavaadam". This may lend itself to the interpretation that they held views that were inimical to advaita. This may be answered by the realization that in the Saiva Corpus there are far more verses criticizing the jaina world view (esp. by Sambandhar, Sundarar) and in the Vaishnava corpus, which concerns itself less with other darsanas, more verses criticizing the Saiva worldview. In effect advaita may have been closer to either tradition. What I want from the learned listers is any verses they can recall from the Vaishnava or Saiva bhakti tradition which shows influence of advaitic thought, any legends, stories, karNAparampara's they may have heard in this regard. I'd appreciate detailed responses, with or without references. Thanks and Warm Regards, LS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2001 Report Share Posted May 9, 2001 I believe the poet saints of Maharastra such as Jnaneshwar Maharaj were bhakti's and also jnani's An interesting read is Jnaneshwar Maharaj's Amritanubhav. In it, he quotes from the Shiva Sutras which are advaitic and from Kashmir although Jnaneswar is from Maharastra. I don't know about Tamil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2001 Report Share Posted May 9, 2001 Namaste, Bhakti and Jnana are like two mighty rivers. When they meet the Ocean of Truth, the ocean can describe both infallibly! Jnaneshvara's spiritual tradition ['sampradaaya'] is known as 'naatha-sampradaaya', and is traced to aadi-naatha [shiva], matsyendranatha, gorakhanatha, gahininaatha, nivR^ittinaatha [Jnaneshvara's guru and elder brother], so it did come from the North. Tukarama, is the prototype of the 'bhakta', [along with Namadeva], and has described bhakti thus: "hechi thora bhakti aavaDate devaa . sa~Nkalpaavii maaya sa.nsaarachii .." This verily is great devotion that pleases God, when this wheel of life is experienced as the power of His wish [my paraphrase]. Gita says [18:54]: brahma-bhuutaH prasannaatmaa na shochati na kaa~Nkshati . samaH sarveshhu bhuuteshhu madbhakti.n labhate paraam.h .. Becoming Brahman, of serene self, he neither grieves nor desires, treating all beings alike; he attains supreme devotion to me. Also, 11:54 : bhaktyaa tu ananyayaa shakya aham eva.nvidhaH arjuna . j~naatu.n drashhTu.n cha tattvena praveshhTu.n cha parantapa .. But by undistracted devotion can I, of this form, be known and seen in reality, and entered into, O Arjuna [Oppressor of foes]. [For a comparative discussion of Jnaneshvara's and Shankara's views, pl. visit URL: http://www.here-now4u.de/eng/being_and_beings__some_epistem.htm ] Regards, s. advaitin, "Paul J. Cote" <pjcote@l...> wrote: > I believe the poet saints of Maharastra such as Jnaneshwar Maharaj > were bhakti's and also jnani's An interesting read is Jnaneshwar > Maharaj's Amritanubhav. In it, he quotes from the Shiva Sutras which > are advaitic and from Kashmir although Jnaneswar is from Maharastra. > I don't know about Tamil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2001 Report Share Posted May 10, 2001 Dear Srinivas: Namaste, The origin of Advaita is the Vedas and Vedic religion has strong influence across the length and width of India. Though it may be difficult to establish a direct link between Advaita and the Bhakti movement, subtle connections do exist. Your question is rather complicated because the Hindu religious traditions during the time-period 600 A.D. to 800 A.D. was challenged by the influence of both Jainism and Buddhism. Shankara's biographical sketch also how Shankara determined to reestablish the Vedic Religion during those turbulent period. The great Tamil literature, "Chilappathikaram" illustrates the influence of Jainism and Buddhism in both Pandya and Chera kingdoms. In short there is stronger evidence that the purpose of "Bhakti Movement" was drive out the influence of Jainism and Buddhism from Tamil Nadu. Interestingly, very little trace of Jainism and Buddhism remained in the Tamil Nadu after the Bhakti movement. Another objective of the Bhakti movement was to reestablish the Vedic Religion in India. Though we may not be able to establish the influence of Shankara on the Bhakti Movement but Shankara did contribute to the establishment of religious institutions including temples in various parts of India. The following article and Website reference supports most of my assertions. I welcome any additions, corrections and comments using other known sources in Tamil Literature and History. warmest regards, Ram Chandran ======================= Religious Traditions of the Tamils (Prof. A. Veluppillai) URL :http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5180/tamil.html [The following article originally appeared in "Circle" mailing list and posted in soc.culture.tamil newsgroup haran (S. Prabaharan) Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil Religious Traditions of Tamils, by Prof. Veluppillai 9 Feb 1996 03:20:55 GMT ] 5.3. Bhakti Period 600 A.D. to 1200 A. D. The Tamils were under the Pallava and the pAnhdija kingdoms during the earlier half of this period and under the cOLa Empire during the latter half of the same. The Tamil power reached its zenith under the cOLa Empire, which also ruled many non- Tamil communities in South India and Sri Lanka. In the history of religion and literature, this period is referred to as the bhakti period. Bhakti is a Sanskrit word, meaning devotion. This Sanskrit word and the Tamilicised form patti became popular quite late. The bhaktti poetry seems to be a curious transformation of literary traditions of the Academy period. Both akam tradition, dealing with love between man and woman and puRam tradition, dealing with heroism and generosity of warriors are combined in a strange manner and the position of man as well as hero goes to god, while the position of woman and hero-worshipper go to the devotee. A. K. Ramanujan has recently brought out a good translation into English of some of these early poems. Though the origins of the concept of bhakti are traceable in Sanskrit sources, bhakti movement as such originated in the Tamil land. Personal relationship between the devotee and the god was its main characteristic, and worship became a fervent personal experience in response to divine grace. Religion for the devotees is no longer a matter of contemplation of a transcendent, impersonal absolute, but of ecstatic response to an intensely personal experience. This leads to a profound sense of the devotee s own shortcomings and to a trustful recourse to the god s forgiveness, with the whole personality being surrendered to the deity. It is this position which inspired the scholar - missionary G. U. Pope's evaluation - which seems to be somewhat superficial - of this religion as the religion, closest to Christianity, among Indian religions. Norman Cutler has worked on the poetics of Tamil devotion. The vedic religion - the Brahminical religion - becomes a popular religion of the Tamils, through the bhakti movement. The Sanskrit sources contributed another important element for this religion. This religion owes a massive debt to the Sanskrit purAnhAs and epics. The temple rituals, prescribed in the Sanskrit AkamAs, became very important. From the very beginning, sectarian differences are noticeable, may be because of the influence of purAnhAs. Saiva and Vaishnava movements were presented to the Tamil people as Tamil religions This was made possible by religious synchronism. murukan becomes identified with Skanda and kArttikEja and related to Siva as a son, koRRavy becomes identified with umA, Siva's consort and as murukan s mother, and mAjOn becomes identified with Vishnu. Saivism is the form of Hinduism, very popular among the Tamils. The Saiva movement was relatively more involved in religious conflicts and controversies. Saint Appar, a convert from Jainism to Saivism, converted the Pallava ruler from Jainism to Saivism. His poetry seems to be a strange mixture of Jaina world-view and Siva bhakti. Even though he expresses his regret for having wasted much of his life as a Jaina monk, his poetry seems to be a form of synchronism between Jainism and Saivism. The Jaina world-view and Jaina didactic works become acceptable to the Saivites. Saint Campanthar, a younger contemporary of saint Appar, converted the pAnhdija ruler from Jainism to Saivism.. He defeated the Buddhists in another controversy. As a Brahmin, he was a champion of Vedic religion against the Jains and the Buddhists. There are plenty of polemical references about the Jains and the Buddhists in his bhakti poetry. Saint Manikkavasagar was also said to have defeated the Lankan Buddhists in a controversy, but there is no trace of polemics in his compositions. For about a millennium, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism were the three important religions among the Tamils. The triangular contest for the loyalty of the Tamils led to the growth of polemical literature to which adherents of all religions contributed. The Buddhist contribution is seen in the manhimEkaly and the kunhdalakEci, the Jaina contribution in the NIlakEci and the Saiva contribution in the civagnAnacittijAr. But overall, conflicts are rare, especially after Hinduism consolidated its position. The Saiva or Vaishnava rulers, were generally generous to all the Hindus, irrespective of their personal inclinations and also patronized the Jaina and Buddhist religious establishments of their subjects. A very important text for Tamil Saivism is the periya purAnham, the Saiva hagiology of 63 NajanmAr, (saint lords), all of whom lived in South India and attained heaven through their bhakti to Siva. This work influenced vIra Saivism of Karnataka. Saint Manikkavasagar's devotional poems are acknowledged as the most moving in Tamil literature. G. U. Pope brought a translation of the tiruvAcakam into English. almost a century ago. Glenn Yocum has published a study of tiruvAcakam recently. The devotional poems of Saint cuNtarar, numbering about a tthousand verses, had been translated by David Shulman recently. The Twelve Sacred Books of the Tamil Saivas were complete in the 12th century A.D. For the vast majority of the Tamil Saivites, the basic works of their religion are these Twelve Sacred Books. They don't look to any Sanskrit work for guidance. The Vaishnava bhakti movement was dominated by twelve AzvArs - those who contemplate deeply on Vishnu. They were authors of tivvijapirapaNtam (sacred composition) of four thousand verses. Compared to the saiva devotional poems, the Vaishnava devotional poems make greater use of akam tradition and less of puRam tradition of the classical period. Friedhelm Hardy had brought out a fine publication recently on the history of this movement. Some important saints are AdAL, kulacEkarar, tirumangky and NammAzvAr. The works of the last one are very important and are sometimes referred to as Tamil Vedas. Though less influential in Tamil land, the Vaishnavite bhakti movement exerted great influence throughout India, during the later periods. The temple worship seems to be a prominent feature from the beginning of the bhakti movement. Temples, built of durable material, first rock-cut and then made of stone, made their appearance from the 8th century. Huge stone temples were built by the cOLa Emperors and their successors throughout tamizNAdu. The temples became the centres, around which many aspects of life of the people were organized. Architects and sculptors were needed in the construction activities. Music, dance, and drama were patronized by the Hindu temples. These temples were generally rich, having been owners of land other forms of wealthy. They employed people and helped them in times of distress. The big temples are still great pilgrim centres to which the Tamil Hindus from all over the world yearn to visit. Most of the big temples in tamiz Nadu have myths of their own. David Shulman has made an interpretation of these myths recently. The big temples are the main attraction for the modern tourists in tamiz NAdu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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