Gita's Perspective of Jiva, Jagat and Liberation from GitaBhasya of Madhwacharya

[Guest guest]

Namaste:

 

Sadanandaji has beautifully explained the concept of Jiva from the

advaitic perspective. This may be a good time for us to understand

the concept of Jiva from the advaita point of view. Sri

Madhawacharya's explanation of Jiva, Jagat and Liberation can bring

further insights into the on going discussions. Most important,

these discussions are based on Gita and translation of Madhwacharya's

Gitabhasya was done by an eminent Sanskrit scholar, Prof Pandurangi,

former professor of Sanskrit of Bangalore University. I have

reproduced the relevant sections below,

 

warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

================================================

The following excerpts are from the book, "Essentials of Gitabhasya

and Gitatatparya of Madhwacharya" by Prof. K.T. Pandurangi Former

Prof. of Sanskrit, Bangalore University. Upakulapati, poornaprajna

Vidyapeetha

 

The Nature of Jiva

Jivas are distinct from God and are many. These are pratibimbas of

God. The bimba-Pratibimba relation between God and Jivas involves two

important features on the art of Jiva. Viz. similarity and dependence

`tadahinatve sati tatsadr, satvam' Jivas are also of sat, chit and

ananda nature. There these are similar to God. But these are entirely

dependent upon God in respect of their very functioning and

understating (Svarupa, Pravrtti and pramiti). Jivas are sometimes

called as amass of God also. The expression amsa has many meanings.

But in respect of Jiva being the amass of God, it is used in the sense

of Pratibimba only. There are two types of amass of God viz.

svarupamsa and bhinnamsa. Matsya, kurma etc. incarnations of God are

Svarupamas while Jivas are bhinnamsa. Jiva experiences Sukha, duhkha

etc. He has prakrta body and senses. He has kartrtva or agency since

vidhi and nisedha are addressed to him. Thus, he has moral

responsibility. However, his kartrtva is not independent kartitva. It

is controlled by God.

There are three categories of jivas viz. Sattvika, rajasa, and

tamasa. These distinctions are found in their nature, behaviour, food,

speech activities and even the purpose of their functions. Gita gives

these in detail. Gita gives the main features of good and evil

tendencies in the form of Asuri sampat and Daivi sampat and also

Sattvika, rajasa, tamasa grouping in all aspects of life. Jivas are

distinct from God not only during samsara stage but even after

liberation. The jivas are different from each other also both during

samsara and liberation. These are different from achetana objects.

Thus a five-fold distinction is the corner stone of Gita metaphysics.

These are: the difference between jiva and jiva, jada and jada, jiva

and jada, Jiva and paramatma, and jada and paramatma. The entire

metaphysics of Gita pre-supposes these distinctions. Good many

observations of Gita bring out the distinction between God and jivas,

plurality of jivas, and the other distinctions mentioned above. We may

notice a few of them:, asochyan anva sochah' (II-11) `natveva aham

jatu nasam' (II-12)` Punarjanma napnuvanti mahatmarah' (XVIII-61)'

`gacchanti amudhah (XV-5). In all these the plural employed clearly

shows the difference among jivas both during Samsara and liberation.

Gita verses that bring out the supremacy of God are already pointed

out while describing the nature of God. We may notice a few more here

that bring out the distinction between God and jivas. `Tani aham veda

Sarvani na tvam vettha' (IV-5) `Na artavaptam avaptavyain' ( III-22 )

`mat prasadat tariysati' `mattah sarvam pravartate' (X-8) `aham adirhi

devanam' (X·2) `aham bijapradah pita' ( XIV-27 ) and so on. These

clearly show the supremacy of God and the distinction of jivas from

him. All these cannot be brushed aside merely as vyavaharika

positions. These are addressed to a spiritually progressed soul and

therefore cannot depict a false position.

 

Nature of the Jagat:

Gita clearly holds the view that jagat is satya or real. `Prakrtim

purusam chaiva viddhi anadi ubhau api, etc. statements clearly affirm

jugatsatyatva. The elaborate account of ksetra and God as Ksetrajna

cannot be meaningful unless jagatsatyatva is accepted. Further, Gita

`specifically refutes the jaganmithyatva theory in the verse asatyam

apratistham tu jagadahuranisvaram'. Jagat consists of prakrti, mahat

etc. twenty-four categories. It is constituted of satva, rajas, and

tamas, It provides the physical apparatus of sarira antahkarana etc.

to jiva and, involves him in the experiences of pleasure and pain. The

environmental set up of Jada prapancha can be used or abused by jivas

depending upon their nature i.e sattvika, rajasa etc. The agat is

entirely under the control of God in respect of its essential nature

and functions.

 

Nature of Liberation:

Gita mentions the nature of liberation in more than one place. It

also states the nature of bondage. In connection with the bondage two

facts have to be noted viz. Prakrti and Maya. The word Maya is used in

the sense of Isvareccha or the will of God. It is also used in the

sense of Prakrti. Prakrti is jadaprakrti or matter. Jivas are bound by

matter due to the will of God. Isvareccha, ajnana, Prakrti sambandha.

Kamakarma, abhimana cause the bondage. These grounds of bondage are

mentioned in Gita in different contexts. The remarks `gunamayi mama

maya duratyaya' and mameva ye prapadyante mayem etam taranti te' bring

out the two important facts that it is maya or prakrti that is

responsible for bondage and it can be removed only by the grace of

God, This also shows that the will of God is not only the cause of

bondage but also the cause of liberation. Ajnana- or avidya is another

cause. This ajnana should not be taken in the advaita sense of

Sadasadvilaksana and mithya ajnana. It is satya or real. It has two

aspects viz. jivacchadika and paramcchadika. The first aspect

conceals the true nature of jiva and the second conceals the true

nature of God. This fact of ajnana concealing the true nature of jiva

is mentioned in the verse `ajnanena avrtam' etc. The removal of this

ajnana by jnana is mentioned in `jnanena tu tadajnana nasitam'.

Ajanena is removed by the aparoks, ajnana of God by his grace. To

acquire jnana one will have to abandon kamyakarma and also has to get

rid of abhimana. Aparoks, ajnana leads to God's grace. It is

ultimately the grace of God that bestows liberation. Matprasadat param

santim achirena adhigncchasi'. Liberation is not the discovery of

the identity between Jiva and Brahman as contended by some

commentators. Jiva does not loose its separateness after liberation.

In this connection, correct understanding of the purport of certain

observations in Gita is necessary. 1. Brahmanirvanam ricchati (II-72)

2. Manmayah Madbhavam agatah (IV-10) 3. Brahmavid Brahmani Sthita (

V-20 ) 4. Brahmayogayuktatma Sukham aksayyam asnute ( V-21 ) 5.

Brahmanirvanam Brnhmabhuto adhigacchnti (V-24) 6, Labhante

Brahmanirvanam ( V - 25 ) 7. Yah Prayati sa mdbhavam yati (VIII-5) 8.

Brahma bhuyaya kalpate (XIV-26) are some of the observations that are

quoted in support of jiva-Brahma identity. But a close scrutiny of the

context of these remarks and the wordings of the verses in which these

occur will reveal that these do not convey jiva brahmaikya at all.

Let us notice the correct meaning of these in the light of their

context and wordings :

l. He who concentrates on Brahman at the time of the departure from

his last body will attain Brahman who has not prakrata form. (Nirvana

means he who has no prakrta body) ( II-72).

2. Those who consider 41 me as supreme will remain with me manmaya

means matpradhana, Madbhava means mayi bhava' ] [iV-10)

3. Brahmavid he who knows Brahman, and Brahmani sthita he who firmly

remembers Brahman [V-20] 4. Brahmayoga yuktatma he who continuously

meditates on brahman, aksayam sukham asnute will attain eternal bliss

[ V-21 ]

5. Brahmabhuta he who has Brahman at his heart will attain Brahman

who is without a prakrta body ( nirvana he who has no prakrta body)

[V-24]

6. They will attain Brahman who has not prakrta body [V-25]

7. He who 44 remembers me at the time of the departure from his body

will remain with me (madbhavam means mayisattam) (VIII-5)

8. i]He who 45 is devoted to me crosses over the three gunas and

obtains my affection like Laksmi. [in the expression Brahmabhnya,

Brahma means Lakshmi, bhaya means becoming similar, that is to say,

receiving God's affection like Laksmi ii] The liberated will cross

over Sri, Bhu, and Durga, will reach laksmi and then will reach lord

Vishnu [XIV-26] From the above explanation of the purport of these

passages it is clear that nowhere jiva-Brahma identity is intended in

Gita. According to Gita the liberated jiva retains his separateness

from God and enjoys the bliss with his grace. Getting rid of the

bondage of prakrti or matter and realizing one's blissful nature is

liberation. During liberated state one will have aparokajnana of God.

practice devotion to hiro, and obtain his grace. This will enable him

to enjoy the bliss to the best of his ability. The remark

`Matprasadat avapnoti sasvatam padam avyayam' [XVIII-56] by my grace

the liberated will attain the eternal abode has summed up Gita concept

of liberation. It is unthinkable that God's grace leads to the

identity with God and eliminates the recipient of the grace.

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

Please note the following correction. It should have been Dwaita

instead of advaita. Sri Madhwacharya will not forgive me for this

error but you can!

 

regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <rchandran@c...> wrote:

> Namaste:

>

> Sadanandaji has beautifully explained the concept of Jiva from the

> advaitic perspective. This may be a good time for us to understand

> the concept of Jiva from the advaita point of view. Sri

=======

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 17 May 2001, "Ram Chandran" wrote:

>

> Namaste:

>

> Sadanandaji has beautifully explained the concept of Jiva from the

> advaitic perspective. This may be a good time for us to understand

> the concept of Jiva from the advaita point of view. Sri

> Madhawacharya's explanation of Jiva, Jagat and Liberation can bring

> further insights into the on going discussions. Most important,

> these discussions are based on Gita and translation of Madhwacharya's

> Gitabhasya was done by an eminent Sanskrit scholar, Prof Pandurangi,

> former professor of Sanskrit of Bangalore University. I have

> reproduced the relevant sections below,

>

> warmest regards,

>

> Ram Chandran

It is good to have the opinion of different schools of thought regarding

metaphysical issues. But at the same time does it not lead us to the

confusion?? I think unless we get the suitable answers to Prof. Pandurangi's

observations, we may not be able to understand the concept of jiva-brahma

samanvaya (atleast at intellectual level) as per advaitic perspective.

Perhaps, Sri Sadananda may throw us some more light on this. ( I am reading his

Brahma Sutra Notes-adhyasa bhashya in archieves, its really fantastic!!). This

is my humble opinion, please correct me if i am wrong.

Regards

Nilesh

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Nilesh:

 

You have raised an interesting and also an important issue. The fact

that something is confusing confirms that the subject matter is

complicated and there can be more than one logical explanation. All

logical explanations require a model with a list of assumptions and

parameters. For Advaitins, Shankara's model of Advaita Philosophy is

quite convincing and explains the concept of Jiva, Jagat and

Liberation beautifully. The quoted verses in Gita and their

translations can also be explained using the advaitic terminology

without any difficulty. The purpose of these intellectual explanations

are just help us to focus and divert us from materialism to

spiritualism. All the three Vedantic schools have used different means

to reach the same end. In the end (also in the beginning) Brahman is

the Ultimate Reality!

 

I do agree that Sri Sadanandaji will throw more lights on this but at

the same time, I suggest that you please specify what observations of

Pandurangi is confusing. By narrowing down your enquiry, you will help

the list members and the moderators a great deal.

 

Thanks again,

 

Ram Chandran

 

advaitin, nileshkmehta@1... wrote:

> It is good to have the opinion of different schools of thought

regarding metaphysical issues. But at the same time does it not lead

us to the confusion?? I think unless we get the suitable answers to

Prof. Pandurangi's observations, we may not be able to understand the

concept of jiva-brahma samanvaya (atleast at intellectual level) as

per advaitic perspective. Perhaps, Sri Sadananda may throw us some

more light on this. ( I am reading his Brahma Sutra Notes-adhyasa

bhashya in archieves, its really fantastic!!). This is my humble

opinion, please correct me if i am wrong.

> Regards

> Nilesh

[Guest guest]

Attempting to post this for the second time

 

 

>nileshkmehta

>It is good to have the opinion of different schools of thought regarding

>metaphysical issues. But at the same time does it not lead us to the

>confusion?? I think unless we get the suitable answers to Prof.

>Pandurangi's observations, we may not be able to understand the concept of

>jiva-brahma samanvaya (atleast at intellectual level) as per advaitic

>perspective. Perhaps, Sri Sadananda may throw us some more light on this. (

>I am reading his Brahma Sutra Notes-adhyasa bhashya in archieves, its

>really fantastic!!). This is my humble opinion, please correct me if i am

>wrong. Regards Nilesh

 

Nileshji,

 

I cannot disagree with you. The way I approach this subject is the same

way I approch to understand the scientific theories, by-product of the

training I went through. As discussed in the ChII of the Notes of BSB that

examines anumaana pramaaNa, the loukika anumaana is not valid for

adhyaatimika aspects. Hence Veda or scriptures only provide the valid data.

Yet as emphasized in that chapter, although one cannot logically deduce

the truth, the truth cannot be illogical. This is very important in

uderstanding the truth. As a student of Vedanta and science, the way I look

at the Advaita, Dvaita and VishishhTadvaita are the interpretations of the

orginal data. The data cannot be questioned but the interpretations should

be and need to be questioned if one is capable of questioning. For that one

needs to understand first, before one takes a judge seat to evaluate which

is the better theory to explain the data or does one has to propose new one.

No sceintist will propose a new theory untill he shows that the existing

theories are not capable of accounting the data - is it not?

 

As explained by Shankara in the Adyaasa bhaashya, the adhyaasa is agreed

upon explicitly or implicitly by all the vedantins. I am the body is the

fundamental adhyaasa and everyone agrees that that it is an error. The rest

of the errors stem from this fundamental error - aham kartaa, aham bhoktaa

and aham j~naata etc. If you examine Bhagavaan Ramanuja's and Bhagavaan

Madhva's theories, you will notice that they skip these but concentrate on

different aspects that point out the plurality of jiiva-s. As you may

notice, one can gather and assemble from Veda two distinct type of

statements - those that emphisize the equation of jiiva and Brahman and

those that exphasize the paramaatma and jiiva's as distinct. Madhva

emphasizes these distinctions as real - as enumerated by the five

fundamental differences - jiiva-jiiva bhinnatvam, jiiva-paramaatma

bhinnatvam, jiiva-jaDa bhinnatvam and Paramaatma-Jiiva bhinnatvam. Actually

the differences were emphasized by Ramanuja even before Madhva. But the

fact remains is that the original data from Veda-s emphasize both aspects -

unity or vilakshaNa as well as diversity. A theory has to provide a

consistent explanation for these apparent contradictions in the data.

Bhagavad paada Shankara approaches these contradictions by paramaarthika and

vyavahaarika concepts - From the absolute point there is unity but

transactional point there is diversity. The unity is real since it is

absolute and the diversity is mithya or apparent and is due to adhyaasa.

Bhagavaan Ramanuja approaches the same in another unique way - Unified

approach to unity and diversity - vishishhTa advaita - shesha-sheshii aspect

where jiiva-s and jagat are different but part of one total universal

purusha, paramaatma. Parts are different from the totality but parts are

parts of the totality- just as the body cells and limbs etc are different

from the total soul or paramaatma who pervades all these parts and cells.

Madva somewhat follows Ramanuja but diverges in terms of complete

distinctions of the two. Lord pervades everthing since jiiva cannot

function without His help but they are not parts of Him and hence the

impurities of jiiva's and jagat do not touch Him.

Since scriptures have both types of statements, Ramanuja and Madhva give

importance to the plurality as the primary and unitary aspects as the

secondary. Hence they claim that statements that describe the unitary

aspects have to be properly interpreted (to suite their theories). As in any

scientific approach one has to consider prior theories (puurvapaksha) and

criticize them to show their invalidity before one proposes their thories.

I found in my studies Bhagavaan Ramanju does a superb job in criticizing

Adviata puurvapaksha in his Shree Bhaashya - through Laghu puurvapaksha and

Mahaapuurvapaksha and associated his corresponding siddhaanta-s. I also

found Madhva criticism is somewhat more vehement and subjective but lacks

throughness that Ramanuja provides. I know Madhava-s will not like this

statement of mine but that is what I gather from my firtst studies. I am

looking Ramanuja's shree bhaashya more closely now and I find if we apply

the sharp tools of scientific logic and current understanding of jagat,

Bhagavaan Ramanuja's and Bhagavaan Madva's criticisms of advaita do not

stand the rigour of current scientific understanding of the nature of the

universe.

 

The most beautiful aspect of adviata that is impressive and fundamental is

the oneself - that is non-negatable. Everything else including the theories

and even Veda from which adhyatimika data is gathered can be dismissed but

what cannot be dismissed is oneself. One's existence is beyond any pramaaNa

- prathyaksha, anumaana and shabda. While everyone knows that they exist

and consciousness, sat and chit, they donot realize that they are ananda

too. That is the basic adyaasa that Shankara discusses - Since limitless is

ananda, and limitless is Brahman, aham brahaasmi follows naturally. If that

is also what scripture says then that is the fundamental truth beyond logic,

beyond any means of knowledge. Hence Shankara emphasizes the adhyaasa

bhaashya before he proceeds the discussion of suutra-s.

 

I have great respect for all achaarya-s - Shankara, Ramanuja and Madva. They

are like true scientist analyzing the data and proposing the theories. One

should question these thories and accept that is what one is convinced. By

studying the criticism of advaita by Ramanuja and Madva one will have better

grasp of advaita too, provided one disects these objections to see if these

objections are valid or not. One's conviction follows more firmly by doing

that and that is part of mananam. But before one approaches these studies

one has to be very objective in the interest of the truth and not in the

interest of who is right. Ultimately one has to know oneself by oneself

through contemplation of oneself.

 

Well this is my perspective on the subject for whatever it is worth.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

On Sat, 19 May 2001, "Kuntimaddi Sadananda" wrote:

 

Thank you very much Sir, for your elaborate clarirfication, certainly this list

is blessed with scholars like you. I consider myself 'lucky' for having

interaction with scholars like you.

 

Thanks onceagain

Nilesh

 

 

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