Guest guest Posted June 20, 2001 Report Share Posted June 20, 2001 The following interesting dialogue deals with ideas of infinity which have puzzled many. Can infinity be just one or many? ..... I am sharing my response with the list.....jay - "Leon Dawson" <vivekananda Wednesday, June 20, 2001 06:44 Re: [selfknow-l] soul >namaste > In reply I would like to ask a question about the following : > > "Now, if it is beyond time, space and causation, > it must be infinite. Then comes the highest speculation in our > philosophy.The infinite cannot be two. If the soul be infinite, there can be > only oneSoul, and all ideas of various souls - you having one soul, and I > having another, and so forth - are not real." > > ****************** question: > > How can the infinite exist without the infinitestimal - the infinite is that > which is forever expanding - and the infinitesimal is that which is a spec > in comparison. - and yet both could be of the same quality 'consciousness'. > > How can there be infinity without diversity, if only one thing exists then > that is not infinity...but if simultaneously an infinite amount of entities > exist and also they are all one - inconceivably, then that I feel would be > the true nature of infinity. > > Namste...Leon =====Response===== Namste Leon Infinite and Infinitesimal are mirror images of each other. As a mathematician would say one is the reciprocal of the other. Mathematicians find infinity highly entertaining. As you perhaps know - infinities can come in different varieties too. The infinity you can find as all points on a line from zero to one unit is of a higher level than an infinity of say list of all positive integers....... Hence your conclusion: infinities are many and "not one" may seem valid. But then why is Vivekananda saying 'Infinity cannot be more than one'? He is saying that all infinities that we refer to whether it is in terms of all points on a line or a set of positive integers, all these are limited approaches to the infinite -- being such they reflect the limitations of our process of reaching infinite - this makes them look like different infinities -- same infinity approached using different methods seem to produce many infinities. As with the case of infinite and infinitesimal. Does this really in any way hinder spiritual understanding of Brahman ? Answer: No....... Infinite is just that, an expression you generate in the thinking process and no thinking process holds copyrights on Brahman (thankfully). Hence when we say Brahman is infinite that is a liberty we take with Brahman but a tolerable liberty provided we are aware that our approach in trying to come to terms with infinity seems to impose limitations on infinity too, hence making infinity appear as many. "One appearing as many" Though a bit long winded response, I hope it made sense. : ) jay Vivekananda Centre London Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2001 Report Share Posted June 21, 2001 >The following interesting dialogue deals with ideas of >infinity which have puzzled many. Can infinity be just one or >many? ..... I am sharing my response with the list.....jay > > >- >"Leon Dawson" ><vivekananda >Wednesday, June 20, 2001 06:44 >Re: [selfknow-l] soul > >>namaste >> In reply I would like to ask a question about the following : >> >> "Now, if it is beyond time, space and causation, >> it must be infinite. Then comes the highest speculation in our >> philosophy.The infinite cannot be two. If the soul be infinite, there can >be >> only oneSoul, and all ideas of various souls - you having one soul, and I >> having another, and so forth - are not real." >> >> ****************** question: >> >> How can the infinite exist without the infinitestimal - the infinite is >that >> which is forever expanding - and the infinitesimal is that which is a spec >> in comparison. - and yet both could be of the same quality >'consciousness'. >> >> How can there be infinity without diversity, if only one thing exists then >> that is not infinity...but if simultaneously an infinite amount of >entities >> exist and also they are all one - inconceivably, then that I feel would be >> the true nature of infinity. >> >> Namste...Leon > >=====Response===== > >Namste Leon > >Infinite and Infinitesimal are mirror images of each other. >As a mathematician would say one is the reciprocal of the other. > >Mathematicians find infinity highly entertaining. As you perhaps >know - infinities can come in different varieties too. The infinity you >can find as all points on a line from zero to one unit is of a higher >level than an infinity of say list of all positive integers....... > >Hence your conclusion: infinities are many and "not one" may seem valid. >But then why is Vivekananda saying 'Infinity cannot be more than one'? >He is saying that all infinities that we refer to whether it is in terms >of all points on a line or a set of positive integers, all these are limited >approaches to the infinite -- being such they reflect the limitations of our >process of reaching infinite - this makes them look like different >infinities -- same infinity approached using different methods seem to >produce many infinities. As with the case of infinite and infinitesimal. Jay - Here is my understanding. As you have correctly pointed out infinity in any one aspect or direction excludes other aspects or directions and hence are limited by that very exclusion and hence not unlimited. For example if two parallel lines only meet at infinity implies in one direction. In perpendicular direction, their distance is finite and not infinite. This applies any object-wise infinity since they are limited by distinctly different objects and hence they were finite from the point of other objects. The absolute infinite in all aspects cannot have object-wise limitations either. Hence the use the word Brahman specially coined for this. It comes from the root which implies bigness - it is an noun formed from adjective- 'big'. Normally big is an adjective that qualifies a noun - when I say big ant we have some norm with which we conceive bigness of that ant. In contrast when we say big mountain, that bigness of the mountain that we conceive is different from the bigness of the ant. Thus object-wise big, the noun (object) is qualifying the bigness of that object. To indicate the bigness in absolute sense in all aspects, they made the adjective itself into a noun to indicate there is no noun (object) that limits this bigness. Hence it is bigness from every aspect - hence Brahman. Hence it is said that it is ekameva advitiiyam - it is one without a second -the second implies no object wise limitations - that is it is absolutely unlimited in all ways. Consciousness has to be infinite in all ways - if it is finite then the question arises what is there outside the boundary of the consciousness. If something is there - the next question is who knows that there is something other than consciousness. If one knows that there is something out there, then that 'out there is something' can be known only if it is in the consciousness. Otherwise one cannot be conscious of that 'out side' to say that there is something other than consciousness. That implies that the so-called 'outside' is 'inside' the consciousness. Hence Ch. Up. says - sadeva soumya idam agra asiit - ekam eva advitiiyam - existence alone was there in the beginning and it is one without a second. If there is a second which is different from the existence then it can be only non-existence since that alone is different from existence. One cannot say non-existence exists since it is contradiction in terms. Hence existence alone was there and it is conscious entity as is indicated in the subsequent mantra-s of Ch.Up. Hari Om! Sadananda > >Does this really in any way hinder spiritual understanding of >Brahman ? Answer: No....... > >Infinite is just that, an expression you generate in the thinking process >and no thinking process holds copyrights on Brahman (thankfully). >Hence when we say Brahman is infinite that is a liberty we take >with Brahman but a tolerable liberty provided we are aware that our >approach in trying to come to terms with infinity seems to impose >limitations on infinity too, hence making infinity appear as many. >"One appearing as many" > >Though a bit long winded response, I hope it made sense. > >: ) >jay >Vivekananda Centre London > -- K. Sadananda Code 6323 Naval Research Laboratory Washington D.C. 20375 Voice (202)767-2117 Fax:(202)767-2623 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2001 Report Share Posted June 21, 2001 Namaste On my view point It is the projection of Brahman the one ifinate entity to the menifest jivas, like a projection solar from the sun to all over the universe. The sun is one but it appears everywhere, in India, US,etc. How? Is that means the sun is many. Another example, for instant Leon is one person but the same Leon was a baby before, a son/daughter to your parents, a husband/wife to your spouse, a father/mother to your children, a grandfather/grandmother to your grandchildren.It that means Loen is many person.Actually the "one" Leon reflect as many( The reflection of the form of Leon in various role. Hari om Miss kalaimalar. advaitin, "Vivekananda Centre" <vivekananda@b...> wrote: > The following interesting dialogue deals with ideas of > infinity which have puzzled many. Can infinity be just one or > many? ..... I am sharing my response with the list.....jay > > > - > "Leon Dawson" > <vivekananda@b...> > Wednesday, June 20, 2001 06:44 > Re: [selfknow-l] soul > > >namaste > > In reply I would like to ask a question about the following : > > > > "Now, if it is beyond time, space and causation, > > it must be infinite. Then comes the highest speculation in our > > philosophy.The infinite cannot be two. If the soul be infinite, there can > be > > only oneSoul, and all ideas of various souls - you having one soul, and I > > having another, and so forth - are not real." > > > > ****************** question: > > > > How can the infinite exist without the infinitestimal - the infinite is > that > > which is forever expanding - and the infinitesimal is that which is a spec > > in comparison. - and yet both could be of the same quality > 'consciousness'. > > > > How can there be infinity without diversity, if only one thing exists then > > that is not infinity...but if simultaneously an infinite amount of > entities > > exist and also they are all one - inconceivably, then that I feel would be > > the true nature of infinity. > > > > Namste...Leon > > =====Response===== > > Namste Leon > > Infinite and Infinitesimal are mirror images of each other. > As a mathematician would say one is the reciprocal of the other. > > Mathematicians find infinity highly entertaining. As you perhaps > know - infinities can come in different varieties too. The infinity you > can find as all points on a line from zero to one unit is of a higher > level than an infinity of say list of all positive integers....... > > Hence your conclusion: infinities are many and "not one" may seem valid. > But then why is Vivekananda saying 'Infinity cannot be more than one'? > He is saying that all infinities that we refer to whether it is in terms > of all points on a line or a set of positive integers, all these are limited > approaches to the infinite -- being such they reflect the limitations of our > process of reaching infinite - this makes them look like different > infinities -- same infinity approached using different methods seem to > produce many infinities. As with the case of infinite and infinitesimal. > > Does this really in any way hinder spiritual understanding of > Brahman ? Answer: No....... > > Infinite is just that, an expression you generate in the thinking process > and no thinking process holds copyrights on Brahman (thankfully). > Hence when we say Brahman is infinite that is a liberty we take > with Brahman but a tolerable liberty provided we are aware that our > approach in trying to come to terms with infinity seems to impose > limitations on infinity too, hence making infinity appear as many. > "One appearing as many" > > Though a bit long winded response, I hope it made sense. > > : ) > jay > Vivekananda Centre London Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.