Intro to Advaitha.

[Guest guest]

Om Nama Shivaya

 

Dear Friends:

 

My introduction into the advaitha philosophy started one day with a discussion I

had with a relative of mine. Till then, I knew that my family adhered to the

advaitha way. But I did not understand its meaning. But in that discussion, I

got this brief preliminary understanding of advaitha.

 

I was told that an atma takes birth with a goal of not letting the worldly

experiences get recorded in it. By not allowing these worldly experiences get

recorded, the atma can successfully become one with the Paramatma. But in most

cases, the worldly experiences creep in and start recording themselves into the

atma. The atma gets so immersed in the worldly experiences that it is unable to

break free, to reach Paramatma. At the end, when the time comes for the atma to

leave the body in which it has been residing for this period of journey, the

atma has not fulfilled its purpose of life itself - to attain mukthi. So what

happens? The cycle begins all over again. Rebirth takes place. The atma comes

back into this world, trying to achieve its purpose.

 

I have some questions at this point. Why, in the first place, does the atma have

to go through this journey till it realises the Paramatma? We say that the atma

started from the Paramatma. Why start at all? It was with the Paramatma in the

first place. Why should each and every single unit of the Paramatma, otherwise

known as the atma, go through this exercise of birth and rebirth to acchieve

Mukti?

 

I really feel very ignorant about this. I humbly request you all, dear friends,

to help me understand this.

 

Humble Pranams.

Ranjani

 

_________________________

Visit http://www.visto.com.

Find out how companies are linking mobile users to the

enterprise with Visto.

[Guest guest]

Namaskar.

 

You are a wise person. You have already caught the fundamental

problem with dvaita. In dvaita philosophy, atma and paramatma are

different.

 

Advaita actually says that atma and paramatma are the same.

There is no starting, no moving, no reaching.

 

There is only ingnorance of atma (or paramatma).

This ignorance leads to incorrect conclusions of 'who I really am'

The incorrect conclusions leads to psychological pains and suffering.

Removal of ignorance of atma leads finally to 'mukti' from the root

of pains and suffering;

And a normal happy jivan-mukta is present.

 

This is what I have understood about advaita.

 

Varma.

 

I apologize if this post is offensive to anyone.

>

> I have some questions at this point. Why, in the first place, does

the atma have to go through this journey till it realises the

Paramatma? We say that the atma started from the Paramatma. Why start

at all? It was with the Paramatma in the first place. Why should each

and every single unit of the Paramatma, otherwise known as the atma,

go through this exercise of birth and rebirth to acchieve Mukti?

>

> I really feel very ignorant about this. I humbly request you all,

dear friends, to help me understand this.

>

> Humble Pranams.

> Ranjani

>

>

____________________

_____

> Visit http://www.visto.com.

> Find out how companies are linking mobile users to the

> enterprise with Visto.

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

I think thats a pretty good question from Ranjani.

To the best of my knowledge, the atma gets caught up in the vicious cycle of

rebirth because of its samskaras. These samskaras are nothing but

impressions formed because of attachment. The attachments are due to the

ignorance of the atma, that is, atma identifies itself as the body it

happens to incarnate.

 

Only, when the atma identifies itself with its true self, that is atma.

Then, there will be no impressions formed as the atma becomes the

"witnessing consciousness".

 

The atma started from the Paramatma or we all paramatmas earlier, is really

a moot point to me. I think we were all paramatmas before, and happened to

degenerate because of the impressions formed later.

But, what I dont understand with this belief of mine is. If thats the case,

then does that mean that some of our friends who have realized god might

again get caught up in the vicious cycle or what?

 

If my thoughts make some sense to some one, can you lemme know your ideas?

 

Bye.

Sreekanth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>"Ranjani Narayanan" <ranjanin

>advaitin

>advaitin

> Intro to Advaitha.

>Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:19:33 -0700

>

>Om Nama Shivaya

>

>Dear Friends:

>

>My introduction into the advaitha philosophy started one day with a

>discussion I had with a relative of mine. Till then, I knew that my family

>adhered to the advaitha way. But I did not understand its meaning. But in

>that discussion, I got this brief preliminary understanding of advaitha.

>

>I was told that an atma takes birth with a goal of not letting the worldly

>experiences get recorded in it. By not allowing these worldly experiences

>get recorded, the atma can successfully become one with the Paramatma. But

>in most cases, the worldly experiences creep in and start recording

>themselves into the atma. The atma gets so immersed in the worldly

>experiences that it is unable to break free, to reach Paramatma. At the

>end, when the time comes for the atma to leave the body in which it has

>been residing for this period of journey, the atma has not fulfilled its

>purpose of life itself - to attain mukthi. So what happens? The cycle

>begins all over again. Rebirth takes place. The atma comes back into this

>world, trying to achieve its purpose.

>

>I have some questions at this point. Why, in the first place, does the atma

>have to go through this journey till it realises the Paramatma? We say that

>the atma started from the Paramatma. Why start at all? It was with the

>Paramatma in the first place. Why should each and every single unit of the

>Paramatma, otherwise known as the atma, go through this exercise of birth

>and rebirth to acchieve Mukti?

>

>I really feel very ignorant about this. I humbly request you all, dear

>friends, to help me understand this.

>

>Humble Pranams.

>Ranjani

>

>_________________________

>Visit http://www.visto.com.

>Find out how companies are linking mobile users to the

>enterprise with Visto.

>

 

 

_______________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

[Guest guest]

>Om Nama Shivaya

>

>Dear Friends:

>

>My introduction into the advaitha philosophy started one day with a

>discussion I had with a relative of mine. Till then, I knew that my

>family adhered to the advaitha way. But I did not understand its

>meaning. But in that discussion, I got this brief preliminary

>understanding of advaitha.

>

>I was told that an atma takes birth with a goal of not letting the

>worldly experiences get recorded in it. By not allowing these

>worldly experiences get recorded, the atma can successfully become

>one with the Paramatma. But in most cases, the worldly experiences

>creep in and start recording themselves into the atma. The atma gets

>so immersed in the worldly experiences that it is unable to break

>free, to reach Paramatma. At the end, when the time comes for the

>atma to leave the body in which it has been residing for this period

>of journey, the atma has not fulfilled its purpose of life itself -

>to attain mukthi. So what happens? The cycle begins all over again.

>Rebirth takes place. The atma comes back into this world, trying to

>achieve its purpose.

 

Ranjani - Greetings! Welcome to the Vedantic inquiry.

 

Your questions are very fundamental. My suggestion to you and others

who think there are beginners, is to study the first three chapters

of the notes on Brahmasuutra that is available in the archives,

particularly Ch. III that discusses the adhyaasa or error of

superimposition. That explains most of your questions. The rest of

the chapters are mostly an elaboration of this. Shree Dennis Waite

also has provided an abridged version of this notes, removing the

Sanskrit terms involved. This can also downloaded from archives of

advaitin.

 

Vedanta recognizes that individual is not a bundle of matter, which

is inert or jadam. One can call it as soul or the very life

principle, the presence of which make the matter enliven. Science

cannot identify what that life principle is since the tools available

for inquiry - which are called pramaaNa - are not subtle enough to

zero-in on the subject of inquiry namely the aatma or soul or the

very life principle. All that a doctor can say that is one is alive

or not by its expression through the matter - whether he is breathing

or heart functioning etc. But what tickles the heart to function is

not known. Logically (which in Vedanta is called anumaana pramaaNa)

one can not establish the aatma either since logic ultimately rests

on the perceptions as the proof of logic and since one cannot

percieve aatama, logically also one can not establish. Only Shabda

pramaana or shaastra pramaaNa is the valid means for knowing aatma.

Yet we all feel without even knowing shaastra that we are not matter

and we are different from matter. If one dies we call - mar gayaa -

dead and gone - that is matter is left behind and he has gone - he

being separate from matter.

 

Where does he go? where did he come from? why did he come from

where he was? How did it all started? and what is the very purpose of

this life cycles? - These are fundamental questions and one need to

learn from Shaastra-s since as stated above, the answers cannot be

deduced by experimentation or logical analysis.

 

Your questions cover the entire Vedanta. The answers are very

methodically provided for the seekers by Vedanta. These need to be

studies under the guidance of a proper teacher - This advaitin list

provides many vehicles through discussions and personal study answers

to many of your questions. We learn from one another through

discussions and this has been a time-honored method that is

recommended from the days of the yore.

 

Hence my advise for you is to study the notes carefully and

methodically until the concepts are clear.

 

Information about the notes is provided below. God bless you in your studies.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

Notes on Brahmasuutra-s are now stored in a folder and can be accessed at

<advaitinNotes+on+Brahmasuutra/>http://grou\

ps.advaitinNotes+on+Brahmasuutra/

for personal study.

 

 

 

>

>I have some questions at this point. Why, in the first place, does

>the atma have to go through this journey till it realises the

>Paramatma? We say that the atma started from the Paramatma. Why

>start at all? It was with the Paramatma in the first place. Why

>should each and every single unit of the Paramatma, otherwise known

>as the atma, go through this exercise of birth and rebirth to

>acchieve Mukti?

>

>I really feel very ignorant about this. I humbly request you all,

>dear friends, to help me understand this.

>

>Humble Pranams.

>Ranjani

>

>_

--

K. Sadananda

Code 6323

Naval Research Laboratory

Washington D.C. 20375

Voice (202)767-2117

Fax:(202)767-2623

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Ranjani Ji,

>>>>>I have some questions at this point. Why, in the first place, does the

atma have to go through this journey till it realises the Paramatma? We say

that the atma started from the Paramatma. Why start at all? It was with the

Paramatma in the first place. Why should each and every single unit of the

Paramatma, otherwise known as the atma, go through this exercise of birth

and rebirth to acchieve Mukti?

 

I totally agree with Respected Sadananda Ji's statements about your

questions.

To me it seems, the answer to these problems can only be provided from the

point of view of Ajativada of Gaudapadacharya (the grand master of

Shankara).

na nirodho no chotpattirna baddho na ca sadhakah. The fact is that neither

this world was born, neither any Jivatman, neither there is any sadhaka nor

there is any bondage nor there is any moksha. Everything is just a game of

ignorance. Its like the game of a magician. We are dispelled by the magical

contents.

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

There are different answers given to the

question of how did ignorance come about.

Sri Ramana Maharshi had once replied to this question

with a counter question, Can the eye see itself ?

When the devotee asked Him to explain, Bhagavan

replied, that just as it takes a mirror to see the

eye, the infinite is seemingly reflected in many

finite bodies so that It can see itself.

This is quite an original explanation since it

brilliantly explains two points of Maya,

1) The myriad reflections exist just like the image in

the mirror also exists.

2) Due to our lack of enquiry, we are unable to see

the reflection as ourselves. Just like a monkey seeing

its reflection in a mirror gets agitated and thinks it

is another monkey, so also we see so many animate and

inanimate beings and think they are different from us.

 

The only reason the Supreme is seemingly ignorant and

wants realization is because that was Its desire.

The infinite wanted to enjoy itself and hence the

Leela. However when we forget the Leela and take it

seriously, we become bound. It takes only an instant

to be bound.

This very short time it takes to fall from a state of

Yoga or some spiritual attainment is the reason there

is this seeming struggle for liberation. Our mind is

not able to grasp the falling process. Before we know

it we are bound.

 

Regards,

Anand

 

 

> To me it seems, the answer to these problems can

> only be provided from the

> point of view of Ajativada of Gaudapadacharya (the

> grand master of

> Shankara).

> na nirodho no chotpattirna baddho na ca sadhakah.

> The fact is that neither

> this world was born, neither any Jivatman, neither

> there is any sadhaka nor

> there is any bondage nor there is any moksha.

> Everything is just a game of

> ignorance. Its like the game of a magician. We are

> dispelled by the magical

> contents.

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

Get personalized email addresses from Mail

http://personal.mail./

[Guest guest]

Hi!

Why does the Supreme has the Desire to see itself? Is it not unbounded,

unblemished, unmanifest, omnipotent, and omnipresent? Where does it

originate in the Supreme?

-- Vis

----------

-

"Anand Natarajan" <harihara.geo

<advaitin>

Friday, July 20, 2001 6:07 PM

Re: Intro to Advaitha.

 

>

> Namaste,

>

> The only reason the Supreme is seemingly ignorant and

> wants realization is because that was Its desire.

> The infinite wanted to enjoy itself and hence the

> Leela. >

> Anand

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Om Nama Shivaya

 

 

Dear Sri Anand:

 

The explanation given by Sri Ramana Maharishi is a wonderful example.

You have stated that the only reason the Supreme is seemingly ignorant and wants

realization is because that was Its desire.

Why do you think this came about? What explanation exists for such a desire?

 

Humble Pranams

Ranjani

 

 

 

Anand Natarajan harihara.geo

Fri, 20 Jul 2001 18:07:26 -0700 (PDT)

advaitin

Re: Intro to Advaitha.

 

 

 

Namaste,

 

There are different answers given to the

question of how did ignorance come about.

Sri Ramana Maharshi had once replied to this question

with a counter question, Can the eye see itself ?

When the devotee asked Him to explain, Bhagavan

replied, that just as it takes a mirror to see the

eye, the infinite is seemingly reflected in many

finite bodies so that It can see itself.

This is quite an original explanation since it

brilliantly explains two points of Maya,

1) The myriad reflections exist just like the image in

the mirror also exists.

2) Due to our lack of enquiry, we are unable to see

the reflection as ourselves. Just like a monkey seeing

its reflection in a mirror gets agitated and thinks it

is another monkey, so also we see so many animate and

inanimate beings and think they are different from us.

 

The only reason the Supreme is seemingly ignorant and

wants realization is because that was Its desire.

The infinite wanted to enjoy itself and hence the

Leela. However when we forget the Leela and take it

seriously, we become bound. It takes only an instant

to be bound.

This very short time it takes to fall from a state of

Yoga or some spiritual attainment is the reason there

is this seeming struggle for liberation. Our mind is

not able to grasp the falling process. Before we know

it we are bound.

 

Regards,

Anand

 

 

> To me it seems, the answer to these problems can

> only be provided from the

> point of view of Ajativada of Gaudapadacharya (the

> grand master of

> Shankara).

> na nirodho no chotpattirna baddho na ca sadhakah.

> The fact is that neither

> this world was born, neither any Jivatman, neither

> there is any sadhaka nor

> there is any bondage nor there is any moksha.

> Everything is just a game of

> ignorance. Its like the game of a magician. We are

> dispelled by the magical

> contents.

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

Get personalized email addresses from Mail

http://personal.mail./

 

Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman

and Brahman.

Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/

To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

 

 

 

Your use of is subject to

 

 

 

 

 

_________________________

Visit http://www.visto.com.

Find out how companies are linking mobile users to the

enterprise with Visto.

[Guest guest]

All answers we make are in our own relative plane of

existence. From the absolute point of view, there

never is any bondage, so no question of how this

ignorance arose.

However, this answer is not satisfying to us suffering

from the ailments of attachments. Therefore speaking

from a relative point of view with Jiva and Paramatma,

the path of Bhakthi would indicate that by the desire

of the supreme, we see the many. Due to our lack of

enquiry we do not see the one in the many. We go to a

cinema hall to see a movie. All the time we know its a

movie. But still we become so engrossed in it, that it

becomes real at that moment. We weep for the tragedies

shown in it etc. Why do we do that ? We identified

ourselves with it.

 

Drk-Drshya Viveka speaks of Maya as having two powers.

The first is the power of projection. That is what we

experience. Second is the power of veiling. That is

the rise of the ego and subsequent delusion.

We have the power to detach ourselves and be free, but

still we dont do that. We keep asking ourselves, why

this ignorance?

Sri Ramakrishna gives the example of a camel that

loves to eat cactus plants. Even though, each bite it

takes of the cactus, makes its mouth bleed, it still

does not desist from eating it. So is the case with

us, we are not in truth seeking Jnana. If we were,

then we would have it.

 

Regards,

Anand

 

 

 

 

 

Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Messenger

http://phonecard./