Gita Satsang ; Ch. 7 v. 8-14 - July 24, 2001

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

mat chittaaH mat gata-praaNaaH bodhayantaH parasparam.h .

kathayantaH cha maa.n nitya.n tushhyanti cha ramanti cha ..

 

shriimad-bhagavad-giitaa 10:9

 

'With their thought on Me, with their life absorbed in Me,

instructing each other, and ever speaking of Me,

they are content and delighted.'

Ch.10:v.9.

____________________

________________

 

atha saptamo.adhyaayaH . Chapter 7 : Verses 8-14 [with

Shankara-Bhashya, tr. Sw.Gambhirananda]

 

j~naana-vij~naana-yogaH. The Yoga of Knowledge and Wisdom

____________________

______________________

 

'What qualities are You endowed with, by virtue of which all this is

strung on You? This is

being answered:

 

raso.ahamapsu kaunteya prabhaasmi shashisuuryayoH .

praNavaH sarvavedeshhu shabdaH khe paurushhaM nR^ishhu .. 7\.8..

 

8. O son of Kunti, I am the taste of water, I am the effulgence of the

moon and the sun; (the

letter) Om in all the Vedas, the sound in space, and manhood in men.

 

kaunteya, O son of Kunti; aham, I; apsu rasah, the taste, which is the

essence of water. The

idea is that water is depedent on Me who am its essence. This is how

it is to be understood

in every case. Just as I am the essence of water, similarly, asmi, I

am; the prabhaa,

effulgence; shashi-suuryayoh, of the moon and the sun; praNavaH, (the

letter) Om; sarva-vedeshhu, in all the Vedas. All the Vedas are

established on Me who am that Om. So also (I am) shabdaH, the sound;

khe, in space, as the essence. Space is established on Me who am that

(sound). In the same way, nR^ishhu, in men; (I am) paurushham,

manhood- the quality of being man, from which arises the idea of

manhood. Men are established on Me who am such.

 

----

-------------------------

 

puNyo gandhaH pR^ithivyaa.n cha tejashchaasmi vibhaavasau .

jiivanaM sarvabhuuteshhu tapashchaasmi tapasvishhu .. 7\.9..

 

9. I am also the sweet fragrance in the earth; I am the brillinace in

the fire, and the life in

all beings; and I am the austerity of the ascetics.

 

I am also the puNyaH, sweet; gandhaH, fragrance; pR^ithivyaam, in the

earth. The earth is

dependent on Me who am its fragrance. The natural sweetness of smell

in the earth is cited by

way of suggesting sweetness of taste of water etc. as well. But

foulness of smell etc. is due

to contact with particular things, resulting from nescience,

unholiness, etc. of worldly

people.

 

cha, and ; asmi, I am; the tejaH, brilliance; vibhaavasau, in fire; so

also (I am) the jiivanam, life - that by which all creatures live;

sarva-bhuuteshhu, in all beings. And I am the tapaH, austerity;

tapasvishhu, of ascetics. Ascetics are established in Me who am that

austerity.

 

----

-------------------------

 

biijaM maa.n sarvabhuutaanaa.n viddhi paartha sanaatanam.h .

buddhirbuddhimataamasmi tejastejasvinaamaham.h .. 7\.10..

 

10. O Partha, know Me to be the eternal Seed of all beings. I am the

intellect of the

intelligent, I am the courage of the courageous.

 

O Partha, viddhi, know, maam, Me; to be the sanaatanam, eternal;

biijam, seed, the source of

growth; sarva-bhuutanam, of all beings. Besides, I am the buddhiH,

intellect, the power of

discrimination of the mind; buddhimatam, of the intelligent, of people

having the power of

discrimination. I am the tejaH, courage; tejasvinaam, of the

courageous, of those possessed of that.

 

----

-------------------------

 

balaM balavataa.n chaahaM kaamaraagavivarjitam.h .

dharmaaviruddho bhuuteshhu kaamo.asmi bharatarshhabha .. 7\.11.

 

11. And of the strong I am the strength which is devoid of passion and

attachment. Among

creatures I am desire which is not contrary to righteousness, O scion

of the Bharata dyansty.

 

I am the balam, strength, ability, virility; balavataam, of the

strong. That strength, again, is kaama-raaga-vivarjitam, devoid of

passion and attachment. kaaamaH is passion, hankering for things not

at hand. raagaH is attachment, fondness for things acquired. I am

the strength that is devoid of them and is necessary merely for the

maintenance of the body etc., but not that strength of the worldly

which causes hankering and attachment.

 

Further, bhuteshhu, among creatures; I am that kaamaH, desire - such

desires as for eating,

drinking, etc. which are for the mere maintenance of the body and so

on; which is

dharma-aviruddhah, not contrary to righteousness, not opposed to

scriptural injunctions;

bharatarsabha, O scion of the Bharata dynasty.

 

----

-------------------------

 

ye chaiva saattvikaa bhaavaa raajasaastaamasaashcha ye .

matta eveti taanviddhi na tvahaM teshhu te mayi .. 7\.12..

 

Moreover,

 

12. Those things that indeed are made of (the quality of ) sattva, and

those things that are

made of (the quality of) rajas and tamas, know them to have sprung

from Me alone. However, I am

not in them; they are in Me!

 

ye bhaavaaH, those things; sattvikaaH eva, that indeed are made of

(the quality of) sattva; and ye raajasaaH, those that are made (of the

quality) of rajas; and taamasaaH, those that are made of(the quality

of) tamas - whatever things are made (of sattva, rajas and tamas)

according to the creatures's own actions: viddhi, know; taan, them,

all without exception; mattah eva iti, to have sprung from Me alone

when they come into being. Although they originate from Me, still,

tu, however; aham, I; na teshhu, not in them - I am not subject to

them, not under their

control, as are the transmigrating bengs. te, they, again; mayi, are

in Me, subject to Me,

under My control. [For sattva, rajas, and tamas see note under 2.45 as

also Chapters 14, 17 and

18.-Tr.]

 

'The world does not know Me, the supreme Lord, even though I am of

this kind, and am eternal,

pure, intelligent and free by nature, [see note on p.4.-Tr.] the Self

of all beings, free from

all qualities, the cause of burning away the seed of the evil of

transmigration!'-in this way

the Lord expresses regret. And what is the source of that ignorance

in the world? That is

being stated:

 

----

-------------------------

 

tribhirguNamayairbhaavairebhiH sarvamida.n jagat.h .

mohitaM naabhijaanaati maamebhyaH paramavyayam.h .. 7\.13..

 

13. All this world, deluded as it is by these three things made of the

gunas (qualities), does

not know Me who am transcendental to these and undecaying.

 

sarvam, all; idam, this; jagat, world, the aggregate of creatures;

mohitam, deluded as it

is-made to have indiscrimination; ebhih, by these; aforesaid tribhih,

three; bhaavaiH, things,

in the forms of attachment, repulsion, delusion, etc; and gunamayaiH,

made of the gunas, of

the transformations of the gunas; na abhijaanaati, does not know;

maam, Me; who am param,

transcendental to, distinct, different; ebhyah, from these gunas as

referred to above; and am

avyayam, undecaying, i.e. free from all (the six kinds of) changes in

things, viz birth etc.

[see note on p.38.-Tr.]

 

How, again, do they cross over this divine Maya of Visnu, constituted

by the three gunas? That

is being stated:

 

----

-------------------------

 

daivii hyeshhaa guNamayii mama maayaa duratyayaa .

maameva ye prapadyante maayaametaaM taranti te .. 7\.14..

 

14. Since this divine Maya of Mine which is constituted by the gunas

is difficult to cross

over, (therefore) those who take refuge in Me alone cross over this

Maya.

 

hi, since; eshhaa, this, aforesaid; daivi, divine; maayaa mama, of

Mine, of God, of Visnu, which (Maya) is My own; and which is

guna-mayi, constituted by the gunas; is duratyaya, difficult to cross

over; therefore, this being so, ye, those who; wholeheartedly

prapadyante, take refuge; maam eva, in Me alone, in Me who am the

Master of Maya and who am their own Self, by giving up all forms of

rites and duties; te, they; taranti, cross over; etaam, this; maayaam,

Maya, which deludes all beings. That is to say, they become freed

from the bondage of the world.

 

 

[to be continued.

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=========================

 

For Gita Dhyana Shlokas/Mantras and Mahatmya

/message/advaitin/6987

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-----------------------

Adi Shankara's commentary, translated by Swami Gambhirananda, at URL:

[kindly supplied by Madhava-ji]

advaitinGita/Shankara1/gmbCH6.htm

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________________

 

Swami Chinmayananda's commentary at URL:

[kindly supplied by Ram-ji]

advaitinGita/Chinmaya/COMM6.HTM

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

Sri Bhagavan says that the Gunas are in Him and

not He in the Gunas. However, every other verse quotes

Him telling what He is in Prakriti.. I am strength of

the strong, I am Dharmic desires etc.

What is this "I am"? Since he later says all this is

in me and not He in them, is He speaking from the

point of view of Jiva initially and then from the

point of view of Paramatma ?

 

Anand

 

>

> balaM balavataa.n chaahaM kaamaraagavivarjitam.h .

> dharmaaviruddho bhuuteshhu kaamo.asmi

> bharatarshhabha .. 7\.11.

>

> 11. And of the strong I am the strength which is

> devoid of passion and

> attachment. Among

> creatures I am desire which is not contrary to

> righteousness, O scion

> of the Bharata dyansty.

>

> I am the balam, strength, ability, virility;

> balavataam, of the

> strong. That strength, again, is

> kaama-raaga-vivarjitam, devoid of

> passion and attachment. kaaamaH is passion,

> hankering for things not

> at hand. raagaH is attachment, fondness for things

> acquired. I am

> the strength that is devoid of them and is necessary

> merely for the

> maintenance of the body etc., but not that strength

> of the worldly

> which causes hankering and attachment.

>

> Further, bhuteshhu, among creatures; I am that

> kaamaH, desire - such

> desires as for eating,

> drinking, etc. which are for the mere maintenance of

> the body and so

> on; which is

> dharma-aviruddhah, not contrary to righteousness,

> not opposed to

> scriptural injunctions;

> bharatarsabha, O scion of the Bharata dynasty.

>

>

----

> -------------------------

>

> ye chaiva saattvikaa bhaavaa raajasaastaamasaashcha

> ye .

> matta eveti taanviddhi na tvahaM teshhu te mayi ..

> 7\.12..

>

> Moreover,

>

> 12. Those things that indeed are made of (the

> quality of ) sattva, and

> those things that are

> made of (the quality of) rajas and tamas, know them

> to have sprung

> from Me alone. However, I am

> not in them; they are in Me!

>

> ye bhaavaaH, those things; sattvikaaH eva, that

> indeed are made of

> (the quality of) sattva; and ye raajasaaH, those

> that are made (of the

> quality) of rajas; and taamasaaH, those that are

> made of(the quality

> of) tamas - whatever things are made (of sattva,

> rajas and tamas)

> according to the creatures's own actions: viddhi,

> know; taan, them,

> all without exception; mattah eva iti, to have

> sprung from Me alone

> when they come into being. Although they originate

> from Me, still,

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

I had posted this question somedays back. In the

first verses, Sri Krishna says He is such and such a

quality in Prakriti, such as manliness in man,

strength of the strong etc. However, he later says

that all these qualities are in Him and not He in

them.

In this context, when he initially speaks of I am such

an such etc , what is the I am he is refering to. Is

he initially speaking from the point of view of Jiva

and then later from the point of view of Paramatma?

Can anyone explain these verses more ?

 

Anand

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Anand Natarajan wrote:

>

> Namaste,

>

> I had posted this question somedays back. In the

> first verses, Sri Krishna says He is such and such a

> quality in Prakriti, such as manliness in man,

> strength of the strong etc. However, he later says

> that all these qualities are in Him and not He in

> them.

> In this context, when he initially speaks of I am such

> an such etc , what is the I am he is refering to. Is

> he initially speaking from the point of view of Jiva

> and then later from the point of view of Paramatma?

> Can anyone explain these verses more ?

>

> Anand

>

 

namaste shri Anand-ji,

 

While I am not a scholar of bhagavadgItA, let me suggest

what may be the proper answer. I think your understanding,

as expressed in the second paragraph above is essentially

correct. We had occasion to discuss bhagavadgItA 9.4 and

9.5 some time ago, and profvk, a formerly active member of

our List gave the following explanation. BG9.4 and 9.5

deal with essentially the same point which you were referring

to. I give below profvk's explanation.

 

Regards

Gummuluru Murthy

------

 

"V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk

 

There has been a reference to Bhagavad-Gita 9-4 and 9-5 where the Lord

seems to be contradicting Himself in two successive verses. Gummuluru

Murthy is coming up with a posting on this and I am looking forward to

reading it. In the meantime I would like to share my thoughts on the same.

 

In Gita 9-4 2nd line the Lord says

mat-sthAni sarva-bhUtAni na cAhaM tesh-vavasthitaH // meaning,

Every being is located in Me but I am not located in them.

In Gita 9-5 1st line, that is, almost in the same breath, He says:

Na ca mat-sthAni bhUtAni paSya me yogam-aiSvaraM // meaning,

Also, the beings are not located in Me; see my divine magical feat.

 

These contradictory wordings, one following the other, has puzzled almost

every reader. In Vidyaranya's panca-daSI this point is discussed and

clarified. Let us go to the standard analogy of the advaita school.

-- the rope appearing as a snake in the absence of proper lighting and

turning out to be the rope when properly lighted. Now follow the

conversation below between the guru and the disciple:

Guru: Where was the (appearance of the) snake?

Disciple: In the rope.

Guru: Was the snake in the rope?

Disciple: Never. There was only the rope.

 

This is exactly what is being said by the Lord.

To the inquisitive question: The universe and all the Beings in it, where

are they located?, the Lord answers:

They are all (appearing) in Me.

To the question: Are they really in You, Oh Lord?, He answers:

Never. I am the only Reality all the time.

 

praNAms to all advaitins.

Regards. profvk

 

-----

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

It may be taken as axiomatic that ALL of Krisna's utterances

are from the 'aatma-buddhi' [brahma-dR^ishhTi] standpoint [ref. Gita

10:20 "aham aatmaa"].

 

The 'contradictions' dissipate with the reduction of

'deha-buddhi'; Arjuna's understanding and repeated questions for

clarification are from the deha-buddhi view-point.

 

Regards,

 

s.

 

 

advaitin, Gummuluru Murthy <gmurthy@m...> wrote:

>

> On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Anand Natarajan wrote:

>

> correct. We had occasion to discuss bhagavadgItA 9.4 and

> 9.5 some time ago,

> Regards

> Gummuluru Murthy

>

----

--

>

> "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk>

>

> There has been a reference to Bhagavad-Gita 9-4 and 9-5 where the

Lord

> seems to be contradicting Himself in two successive verses.

Gummuluru

> Murthy is coming up with a posting on this and I am looking forward

to

> reading it. In the meantime I would like to share my thoughts on the

same.

>

> In Gita 9-4 2nd line the Lord says

> mat-sthAni sarva-bhUtAni na cAhaM tesh-vavasthitaH // meaning,

> Every being is located in Me but I am not located in them.

> In Gita 9-5 1st line, that is, almost in the same breath, He says:

> Na ca mat-sthAni bhUtAni paSya me yogam-aiSvaraM // meaning,

> Also, the beings are not located in Me; see my divine magical feat.

> Now follow the

> conversation below between the guru and the disciple:

> Guru: Where was the (appearance of the) snake?

> Disciple: In the rope.

> Guru: Was the snake in the rope?

> Disciple: Never. There was only the rope.

>

>

> praNAms to all advaitins.

> Regards. profvk

>

>

----

-

[Guest guest]

Namaste!

What profvk wrote is wonderful and is the essence of

Uddhava Gita,as well ofcourse Bhagawad Gita!Let us

humbly turn to Him with all our doubts and prayers,as

He is the only Reality,the Truth and Satchidananda

Swaroopa!

 

Ananda Sagar

--- Gummuluru Murthy <gmurthy

wrote:

>

> On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Anand Natarajan wrote:

>

> >

> > Namaste,

> >

> > I had posted this question somedays back. In

> the

> > first verses, Sri Krishna says He is such and such

> a

> > quality in Prakriti, such as manliness in man,

> > strength of the strong etc. However, he later says

> > that all these qualities are in Him and not He in

> > them.

> > In this context, when he initially speaks of I am

> such

> > an such etc , what is the I am he is refering to.

> Is

> > he initially speaking from the point of view of

> Jiva

> > and then later from the point of view of

> Paramatma?

> > Can anyone explain these verses more ?

> >

> > Anand

> >

>

> namaste shri Anand-ji,

>

> While I am not a scholar of bhagavadgItA, let me

> suggest

> what may be the proper answer. I think your

> understanding,

> as expressed in the second paragraph above is

> essentially

> correct. We had occasion to discuss bhagavadgItA 9.4

> and

> 9.5 some time ago, and profvk, a formerly active

> member of

> our List gave the following explanation. BG9.4 and

> 9.5

> deal with essentially the same point which you were

> referring

> to. I give below profvk's explanation.

>

> Regards

> Gummuluru Murthy

>

------

>

> "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk

>

> There has been a reference to Bhagavad-Gita 9-4 and

> 9-5 where the Lord

> seems to be contradicting Himself in two successive

> verses. Gummuluru

> Murthy is coming up with a posting on this and I am

> looking forward to

> reading it. In the meantime I would like to share my

> thoughts on the same.

>

> In Gita 9-4 2nd line the Lord says

> mat-sthAni sarva-bhUtAni na cAhaM tesh-vavasthitaH

> // meaning,

> Every being is located in Me but I am not located in

> them.

> In Gita 9-5 1st line, that is, almost in the same

> breath, He says:

> Na ca mat-sthAni bhUtAni paSya me yogam-aiSvaraM //

> meaning,

> Also, the beings are not located in Me; see my

> divine magical feat.

>

> These contradictory wordings, one following the

> other, has puzzled almost

> every reader. In Vidyaranya's panca-daSI this point

> is discussed and

> clarified. Let us go to the standard analogy of the

> advaita school.

> -- the rope appearing as a snake in the absence of

> proper lighting and

> turning out to be the rope when properly lighted.

> Now follow the

> conversation below between the guru and the

> disciple:

> Guru: Where was the (appearance of the) snake?

> Disciple: In the rope.

> Guru: Was the snake in the rope?

> Disciple: Never. There was only the rope.

>

> This is exactly what is being said by the Lord.

> To the inquisitive question: The universe and all

> the Beings in it, where

> are they located?, the Lord answers:

> They are all (appearing) in Me.

> To the question: Are they really in You, Oh Lord?,

> He answers:

> Never. I am the only Reality all the time.

>

> praNAms to all advaitins.

> Regards. profvk

>

>

-----

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

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http://phonecard./

[Guest guest]

Thats a beautiful explanation by Prof VK. I do wish

Bhagavan had given a bit more verbose Bhagavad Gita

than it is.

By the way, there is an english translation of the

Uddhava Gita at

http://www.gita-society.com/UddhavaGita.htm.

 

Anand

> >

> > "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk>

> >

> > There has been a reference to Bhagavad-Gita 9-4

> and 9-5 where the

> Lord

> > seems to be contradicting Himself in two

> successive verses.

> Gummuluru

> > Murthy is coming up with a posting on this and I

> am looking forward

> to

> > reading it. In the meantime I would like to share

> my thoughts on the

> same.

> >

> > In Gita 9-4 2nd line the Lord says

> > mat-sthAni sarva-bhUtAni na cAhaM tesh-vavasthitaH

> // meaning,

> > Every being is located in Me but I am not located

> in them.

> > In Gita 9-5 1st line, that is, almost in the same

> breath, He says:

> > Na ca mat-sthAni bhUtAni paSya me yogam-aiSvaraM

> // meaning,

> > Also, the beings are not located in Me; see my

> divine magical feat.

> > Now follow the

> > conversation below between the guru and the

> disciple:

> > Guru: Where was the (appearance of the) snake?

> > Disciple: In the rope.

> > Guru: Was the snake in the rope?

> > Disciple: Never. There was only the rope.

> >

> >

> > praNAms to all advaitins.

> > Regards. profvk

> >

> >

>

----

> -

>

>

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

>This is in the context of the discussion on

>"They are in Me but not I in them"

 

As an analogy, a dreamer's dream is within the person

but the dreamer as such is not in the dream.

 

I think this particular statement also shows the

Brahman-oneness-consciousness in the 'real' spiritual

domain while the unreal and non-existent domains are

superimposed on that which is real.

'samsaaram svapnatulyam' - rings the bells.

 

Among the dualistic, qualified-monoistic and monositic

statements in Gita, I think this stands out as a pure

Advaitic statement.

 

Comments, corrections, clarifications are appreciated,

as always.

 

Namaste.

Raghava

 

 

 

 

 

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