Guest guest Posted July 25, 2001 Report Share Posted July 25, 2001 Namaste: Just a reminder to the new members of the list - please send all your postings directly to the list so that you can all get response from many knowledgeable members. Send your email addressed to advaitin Thanks for your cooperation and understanding, warmest regards, Ram Chandran Note: New members (also old members!) are also requested not to enclose the entire post of an artilce while sending a reply. This unnecessarily increase the length of the post and divert the attention of the readers. Thanks again in advance for your cooperation. --- G RAMASUBRAMANIAN <ramasubramanian_g wrote: > 25 Jul 2001 18:14:41 -0000 > rchandran <rchandran > Gita Chapter IV question > > Dear Shri Ram Chandran, > > Here is my question. > > In the last verse of Chapter IV, Bhagwan says > (translation) " Therefore O, Bharata prince ! with > the sword of knowledge slay the doubt in the heart > born of nescience; resort to yoga and stand up". > > Sri Shankara's Bhashyam for this verse reads - " > ... Slay it (the doubt) with the sword of knowledge > or right perception (samyagdarsanam)... Destroying > this doubt that may work one's destruction, practise > Karma Yoga, the means to right > perception.(samyagdarshanam)". > > According to the Bhashyam: > > Arjuna is first told to slain his doubt with the > sword of " Samyagdarshanam". > > Having slained the doubt in the above manner , > Arjuna is supposed to practise Karma Yoga which is a > means to / to get Samyagdarshanam. > > This according to me is some thing like saying "If > only you have experience can you secure a job. For > gaining experience, join a job" > > I, like many, have the firm faith that every word > that Sri Shankara employs in His Bhashyams is full > of beautiful import, precise to the point, > absolutely essential and never > superfluous/redundant. > > Unfortunately, I am seeing a contradiction in the > above Bhashyam passage. > > I tried to explain away the apparent contradiction > by postulating " The first samyagdarshanam is to > mean "Paroksha Jnanam " and the subsequent one is to > mean "Aparoksha Jnanam". But I am not happy with > this solution since I feel that Sri Shankara was in > no dearth of vocabulary to use the same word for > two different meanings. (that too in the same > paragraph !) And, in the Gita Bhasyam, we find Sri > Shankara using the word Samyagdarshanam - right > perception only to mean Brahma Jnanam. > > There is another point that I thought of. But this > is equally weak ! > > Why not change the sequence of the instructions to > get some thing like " First practise karma yoga, > gradually get samyagdarshnam and finally slay your > doubt". This is unfortunately not possible because > a) the word "chiitva" locks the sequence of the > statements as per Sanskrit grammar and so we cannot > alter the order B) If change of sequence is what we > have to resort to for interpreting the sloka, Sri > Shankara would have definitely indicated it in His > Bhashyam. However, He does not do so. Even the other > commentators do not indicate such an approach. > > What then could be the reason behind Sri Shankara's > explanation ? > > Thanks > > > Pranams > > RAM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2001 Report Share Posted July 25, 2001 Namaste! I earnestly encourage all to read and experience the bliss of the Ultimate Geetha --Uddhava Geetha--where Bhagawan Sri Krishna Himself clarified many apparently enigmatic contradictions that may confuse the normal students of Bhagawad Geetha. Yoga is union with God!When we experiences such Union,all doubts cease. Jnanam ekaatma Darshanam.When we experience this,all doubts cease. Ksidyante sarwa samsayah--Mayi drishte akhilaatmani--When we can see the Lord in All--all doubts get destroyed! Reading Bhagawad Geetha in the light Of Udhava Geetha is a real Revelation and a Bliss beyond words! Ananda Sagar Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Messenger http://phonecard./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2001 Report Share Posted July 25, 2001 Hello Sri Sagar: Is there a copy of the Uddhava Geetha on the net? If so, pl. indicate the link. Thanks and regards. Ranjani BTA SAGAR btasagar Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:38:19 -0700 (PDT) advaitin Re: Fwd: Gita Chapter IV question Namaste! I earnestly encourage all to read and experience the bliss of the Ultimate Geetha --Uddhava Geetha--where Bhagawan Sri Krishna Himself clarified many apparently enigmatic contradictions that may confuse the normal students of Bhagawad Geetha. Yoga is union with God!When we experiences such Union,all doubts cease. Jnanam ekaatma Darshanam.When we experience this,all doubts cease. Ksidyante sarwa samsayah--Mayi drishte akhilaatmani--When we can see the Lord in All--all doubts get destroyed! Reading Bhagawad Geetha in the light Of Udhava Geetha is a real Revelation and a Bliss beyond words! Ananda Sagar Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Messenger http://phonecard./ Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ To Post a message send an email to : advaitin Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages Your use of is subject to _________________________ Visit http://www.visto.com. Find out how companies are linking mobile users to the enterprise with Visto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2001 Report Share Posted July 25, 2001 Namaste Sri Ramasubramanian: You have raised in important question on the sloka 42 of Chapter 4. tasmaad ajnaaanasambhauutam hrtstham jnanasinaa tmanah chittvai 'nam sams'ayam yogam aatistho 'ttstha bhaarata First chapter 4 is classified by many authors rightly as 'jnana karmasamyaasayoga,' the yoga of knowledge and true renunciation of action. Shankara spells out the essence of the entire chapter with the help of this one sloka. The apparant contradiction that you observed is due to the difficulty in the comprehension of the phrase: 'jnana karmasamyaasayoga.' When we slay our ignorance with the sword of wisdom, our karmas get transformed into karma yoga and our mental attitude attains the spirit of renunciation. These transformations occur simultaneously with jnana and that is why the chapter gets the title: 'jnana karmasamyaasayoga.' With ignorance, Jiva is bounded by the fruits of karma and the only way to get the liberation from karma is through the wisdom to renounce the fruits of karma. In reality, jnana yoga and karma yoga and bhakti yoga can't be practiced separately. It is like buy one and get the other two free type of deal! In the beginning they each appear as a separate yoga sadhana but it is impossible for any one practice them separately. A karma yogi is a bhakti yogi and also a jnana yogi. It should be also noted that the discussion in Gita on karma, bhakti and jnana yogas are conducted to enable seekers to choose the sadhana which suits their background. Some of us may prefer to start karma yoga, some may start with bhakti yoga and others may go for jnana yoga. A perfect karma yogi will ultimately surrender all his/her ego to the lotus feet of the Lord and his/her ignorance will disappear with the light of wisdom. A perfect bhakti yogi conducts the duties to fulfill the wishes of the Lord, renounces the fruits to the Lord and with His Grace, wisdom prevails. The Advaitic medicine for confusion and contradiction is always `contemplation.' Gandhiji made this point beautifully: "Whenever I see contradictions here and there in Gita, I later found such contradictions were caused by my understanding of Gita and not in Gita Ideal." warmest regards, Ram Chandran > --- G RAMASUBRAMANIAN > <ramasubramanian_g@r...> wrote: > > > > Here is my question. > > > > In the last verse of Chapter IV, Bhagwan says > > (translation) " Therefore O, Bharata prince ! with > > the sword of knowledge slay the doubt in the heart > > born of nescience; resort to yoga and stand up". > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2001 Report Share Posted July 25, 2001 advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <rchandran@c...> wrote: > Namaste Sri Ramasubramanian: > > You have raised in important question on the sloka 42 of Chapter 4. > > tasmaad aj~naaanasambhuutam hR^itstham j~nanaasinaatmanah . > chhittvainam sa.nshayam yogam aatishhThottishhTha bhaarata .. > > Namaste, To add to Ramchandran-ji's excellent explanation, one has to take the meaning in the context of the previous verse [#41] also. Shankara Gita Bhashya is available in original and several translations [ in almost all indian scripts too!] at URL: http://www.gitasupersite.org/ Here is the bhaashhya with Sw. Gambhirananda's translation, which may throw additional light on the question. yasmaat karmayogaanushhThaanaat ashuddhikshayaj~naanasa.nchchhinnasa.nshayaH na nibadhyate karmabhiH j~naanaagnidagdhakarmatvaadeva yasmaachcha j~naanakarmaanushhThaanavishhaye sa.nshayavaan vinashyati . tasmaat paapishhTham aj~naanasambhuutam aj~naanaat avivekaat jaata.n hR^itstham hR^idi buddhau sthitam j~naanaasinaa shokamohaadidoshhahara.n samyagdarshana.n j~naana.n tadeva asiH khaDgaH tena j~naanaasinaa aatmanaH svasya aatmavishhayatvaat sa.nshayasya . na hi parasya sa.nshayaH pareNa chchhettavyataa.n praaptaH yena svasyeti visheshhyeta . ataH aatmavishhayo.api svasyaiva bhavati . chhittvaa ena.n sa.nshaya.n svavinaashahetubhuuta.n yoga.n samyagdarshanopaaya.n karmaanushhThaanam aatishhTha kurvityarthaH . uttishhTha cha . Since one whose doubts have been destroyed by Knowledge - arising from the destruction of the impurities (of body, mind, etc.) as result of the practise of Karma-yoga- does not get bound by actions owing to the mere fact of his actions having been burnt away by Knowledge; and since one who has doubts with regard to the practice of the yogas of Knowledge and actions gets ruined - Therefore, O scion of the Bharata dyasty, take recourse to yoga and rise up, cutting asunder with the sword of Knowledge this doubt of your own in the heart, arising from ignorance. 4:42 . tasmaat, therefore, O scion of the Bharata dynasty; aatishhTha, take recourse to, i.e. undertake; yogam, yoga -performance of actions, which is a means to full Illumination; and now, uttishhTha, rise up for battle; chhittvaa, cutting asunder; j~naanaasinaa, with the sword of Knowledge - Knowledge is full Illumination, which is a destroyer of such defects as sorrows, delusion, etc.; that itself is the sword; with that sword of Knowledge-;enam, this; sa.nshayam, doubt; aatmanaH, of your own, which is a source of one's own ruin and is most sinful; hR^itstham, in the heart, residing in the intellect; aj~naana-sambhuutam, arising from ignorance, born of non-discrimination. The word aatmanaH is used because doubt concerns oneself. Indeed, another's doubt cannot be removed by someone else. Hence the word 'own' is used. So, although the doubt is with regard to the Self, it is really one's own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2001 Report Share Posted July 25, 2001 Namaste!I am not aware if Uddhava Geetha is on the net.There are not as many commentaries on Uddhava Geetha as on Bhagawad Geetha.It is near the end of Srimad Bhagawatam.I suspect that why acaryas and Swami Chinmayananda did not write commentaries because when one reads it,one certaily experiences GOD and I am not exaggerating.Its Bliss needs to be experienced but cannot be expressed!Being Amritha Geetha,one cannot but see Amritha Krishna who is ever present with us all around each one of us!However,here are some complete translations and commentaries" ISCON Srimad BHagawatam Volumes Uddhava Geetha by Swami Madhavaananda of Ramakrishna Mission Wisdom of God by Swami Prabhavaananda. Ananda Sagar --- Ranjani Narayanan <ranjanin wrote: > Hello Sri Sagar: > > Is there a copy of the Uddhava Geetha on the net? If > so, pl. indicate the link. > > Thanks and regards. > Ranjani > > > > > BTA SAGAR btasagar > Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:38:19 -0700 (PDT) > advaitin > Re: Fwd: Gita Chapter IV > question > > > Namaste! > I earnestly encourage all to read and experience the > bliss of the Ultimate Geetha --Uddhava Geetha--where > Bhagawan Sri Krishna Himself clarified many > apparently > enigmatic contradictions that may confuse the normal > students of Bhagawad Geetha. > Yoga is union with God!When we experiences such > Union,all doubts cease. > Jnanam ekaatma Darshanam.When we experience this,all > doubts cease. > Ksidyante sarwa samsayah--Mayi drishte > akhilaatmani--When we can see the Lord in All--all > doubts get destroyed! > Reading Bhagawad Geetha in the light Of Udhava > Geetha > is a real Revelation and a Bliss beyond words! > Ananda Sagar > > > > > > > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Messenger > http://phonecard./ > > > Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy > of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. > Advaitin List Archives available at: > http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > To Post a message send an email to : > advaitin > Messages Archived at: > advaitin/messages > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > _________________________ > Visit http://www.visto.com. > Find out how companies are linking mobile users to > the > enterprise with Visto. > > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Messenger http://phonecard./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2001 Report Share Posted July 26, 2001 >Hello Sri Sagar: > >Is there a copy of the Uddhava Geetha on the net? If so, pl. >indicate the link. > >Thanks and regards. >Ranjani > Ranjaniji - Pranaams. In all due respects to shreeman B.T.A. Sagar, I would advice you first to study thoroughly Bhagavad Giita - which contains both Brahmavidya and yoga shaastra. Bhagavad giita is taught to Arjuran is who is in the middle of war in the field of action as most of us are. Uddhava Giita is to Uddhava who has already purified his mind through karma yogo by dedicating his own life in complete surrenderance to the Lord. Uddhava is singled out from rest of the yadava-s. The adhikaaratvam or the qualifications of the two students are different and teaching is at different level. Hari Om! Sadananda -- K. Sadananda Code 6323 Naval Research Laboratory Washington D.C. 20375 Voice (202)767-2117 Fax:(202)767-2623 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2001 Report Share Posted July 26, 2001 Namaste: Swami Krishananda's breif commentary below contains the answer to the question currently under discussion. regards, Ram Chandran ======================================================== Gita Chapter 4: A Brief Commentary by Swami Krishnananda ======================================================== " The other message of the Chapter is that we have to perform, perforce; action as integrated beings in the structure of the universe, basing it on a knowledge of the wholeness of things and our basic 'relationship with the environment in which we are, so that Karma-Yoga be comes more and more intensive as we rise higher and higher in the level of our comprehension When we realize God, when we enter into the being of God, when we are established in the wholeness of God's Being which is called realization of God, action becomes knowledge in the literal sense; so; that the two do not exist even in thought or memory; action is being, and being is action; God's existence is the same as God's activity, and God's activity is the same as God's existence, as distinguished from what it appears in our own individual level ." Source: Philosophy of the Bhagavad Gita, by Swami Krishnananda, published by the Divine Life Society, Himalayas, India. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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