Guest guest Posted August 2, 2001 Report Share Posted August 2, 2001 I had the fortune of listening few lectures by sriman Chari. I have a question about vedas being apoushayaa.In every upanishad there is ateacher and a disciple,ex:yadnyavalkya teaching Maitreyi or shwetaketu addressing his son etc. Since authership is already declared in the sutra,s why then it is considerd apourushaya? can someone elaborate on this please? Suresh and Nirmala. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2001 Report Share Posted August 2, 2001 >I had the fortune of listening few lectures by sriman Chari. I have a >question about >vedas being apoushayaa.In every upanishad there is ateacher and a >disciple,ex:yadnyavalkya teaching Maitreyi or shwetaketu addressing his son >etc. Suresh and Nirmala - Greetings. Just a simple correction - it was Swetaketu that was being addressed by his father Uddalaka in ChanDigya Upanishhat. >Since authership is already declared in the sutra,s why then it is considerd >apourushaya? can someone elaborate on this please? >Suresh and Nirmala. As I understand these are revelations to the above mentioned sages in the seat of meditation. Hence the knowledge is revealed to sages not that sages discovered the knowledge. Essentially you can say Yaj~nyavalkya and Uddlaka, etc gained the knowledge from higher. In Bhagavat Geeta Krishna mentions - I taught this first to so and so who taught next to so and so etc - it is guruparampara traced all the way to Lord. Veda - as knowledge is always pre-existing and it is not created new - Only thing is when a human mind and intellect contemplates on the object of knowledge, it develops what is known as intuition or more appropriately wisdom eye or j~naana chakshu. Sages, unlike scientists, do not claim as "I discovered the truth" or' I made a break-through' - They only say that the truth is revealed to me. Hence Veda-s are revelations. So are the other scriptures of the world. In kenopanishhat the teacher clearly says - this is what we learned from our teacher - his teacher would perhaps repeat the same - he learned from his teacher- etc. It goes to the beginning -the Lord himself . Veda-s clearly proclaim that they are taught starting from NarayaNa to four-headed Brahma or Brahma to sanatkumara-s etc. If one really thinks about it one can see that all knowledge is apourusheyam - no knowledge is made by man. He only gains the knowledge when he contemplates on it - This is true for scientific knowledge as much as to the adhyaatmika knowledge. The famous Dr. Chandrasekhar wrote an article in Scientific American that all knowledge takes place by intuition and intuition is hard to define - Other than explaining that knowledge, which is pre-existing or apourusheya, comes to an meditative mind. Hari Om! Sadananda -- K. Sadananda Code 6323 Naval Research Laboratory Washington D.C. 20375 Voice (202)767-2117 Fax:(202)767-2623 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2001 Report Share Posted August 3, 2001 That was a very lucid explanation. Thank ou Sadananda. Madhavan >"K. Sadananda" <sada >advaitin >advaitin > Re: vedas being aporusheya >Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:45:33 -0400 > >As I understand these are revelations to the above mentioned sages in >the seat of meditation. Hence the knowledge is revealed to sages not >that sages discovered the knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2001 Report Share Posted August 4, 2001 Greetings: advaitin, slimaye@a... wrote: > I had the fortune of listening few lectures by sriman Chari. I have a > question about > vedas being apoushayaa.In every upanishad there is ateacher and a > disciple,ex:yadnyavalkya teaching Maitreyi or shwetaketu addressing his son > etc. > Since authership is already declared in the sutra,s why then it is considerd > apourushaya? can someone elaborate on this please? > Suresh and Nirmala. The Sringeri Jagadguru's website (http://www.jagadgurus.org/home.asp? acharyalcode=BT) contains the following speech from the Sringeri Acharyal that explains the apourushaya aspect of the Vedas: Vedas are Ishwara's revelation Shankara Bhagavatpadal in the course of His short life span of 32 years achieved what others cannot even dream of. In His commentaries on the three principal sacred texts of the Hindus namely, the Upanishads, the Brahma Sutras and the Bhagavad Gita, He has expounded the true import of the scriptures. We believe that God revealed the Vedas and that no man is their author. In the Tarka Sastra it is said, "Sabda is of two forms – worldly and Vedic. The worldly word uttered by a reliable one is a valid means of knowledge. With regard to the Vedic utterance everything is valid because it is taught by God. Surely no man could have been the author of the Vedas for therein we find, among other things, teachings pertaining to the means to attaining heaven. When one cannot know anything about heaven by non- scriptural means how could anyone have, by himself, described the means to attaining heaven? Further, if man wrote the Vedas then the Vedas could not be considered as valid because compositions of humans are not guaranteed to be free from defects. Defects of human writings The first of such defects is incorrect understanding. Due to incorrect understanding of the topic on which one is writing, errors may creep in. Another possible defect is that of faulty exposition. One may know well the subject on hand but may make mistakes when seeking to express what he knows. A third fault is the bad intention to mislead another. One may know the subject on hand and may be in a position to expound correctly, but may be possessed with a bad intention to mislead others. Hence knowingly one may write that which is not in consonance with what one knows to be correct. Yet another fault may be that which pertains to the senses of perception. For instance, a teacher may expound impeccably but if the disciple is hard of hearing then there are chances of the disciple grasping faultily. Such faults would constrain the validity of what is composed by man. The Vedas are fully free from defects since man did not author them. Indeed it is regarded as beginningless. Import of the Veda When someone expounds something we can ascertain the import of the teaching by getting clarification from the expounder. In the case of the Veda, such a facility is non-existent due to the absence of human authorship. How then is the true import of the Veda to be ascertained? The import of the Veda is ascertainable by considering the factors listed by the Mimamsakas (adepts in the study of the part of the Vedas concerning rituals). The first of these is unity between what is declared at the commencement and what is declared in the conclusion. This, in fact should be the case with any good discourse also. In the Upanishads such as the Chandogya we find the scripture starting a portion declaring the nature of the Supreme and ending with the same topic. This test will show that the scripture is intent on expounding the non-dual Self. The second test is repetition. That which is repeated often may be taken to indicate the purport. Sometimes, we find people repeating while lecturing for want of knowledge. Such is not the case with the Veda wherein emphasis is for driving home something. Here again we find Advaita philosophy satisfying this test. For instance, in the sixth chapter of the Chandogya Upanishad we find the utterance "You are That" repeated nine times; this utterance is a declaration showing the identity between the Jiva (the individual soul) and the Supreme. Another test is that the import must pertain to revealing that which is not known already. Here again, Advaita passes the test and not dualism. Even a fool recognizes duality and so there is no need for the Vedas to come to teach what is already known. In the Vedas we find eulogies to stress some point. For instance, we find eulogies to induce people to perform a sacrifice. The knowledge of the non-dual Self is highly eulogized and so this should be that which is a matter of import. The import must pertain to that which has a great result. Indisputably the scripture points that the realization of the non-dual Self has the highest fruit namely freedom from transmigratory existence and attaining Supreme Bliss. It is seen that Advaita alone satisfies all the tests. Hence it is clear that this is what the Veda wishes to declare. Shankara has lucidly expounded the true import of the scriptures in His commentaries for our benefit. (Advice given by His Holiness Sri Bharathi Theertha Mahaswamigal to devotees in Tenkarai ) regards, Sundar Rajan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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