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vedas being aporusheya

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I had the fortune of listening few lectures by sriman Chari. I have a

question about

vedas being apoushayaa.In every upanishad there is ateacher and a

disciple,ex:yadnyavalkya teaching Maitreyi or shwetaketu addressing his son

etc.

Since authership is already declared in the sutra,s why then it is considerd

apourushaya? can someone elaborate on this please?

Suresh and Nirmala.

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>I had the fortune of listening few lectures by sriman Chari. I have a

>question about

>vedas being apoushayaa.In every upanishad there is ateacher and a

>disciple,ex:yadnyavalkya teaching Maitreyi or shwetaketu addressing his son

>etc.

 

Suresh and Nirmala - Greetings. Just a simple correction - it was

Swetaketu that was being addressed by his father Uddalaka in

ChanDigya Upanishhat.

>Since authership is already declared in the sutra,s why then it is considerd

>apourushaya? can someone elaborate on this please?

>Suresh and Nirmala.

 

As I understand these are revelations to the above mentioned sages in

the seat of meditation. Hence the knowledge is revealed to sages not

that sages discovered the knowledge. Essentially you can say

Yaj~nyavalkya and Uddlaka, etc gained the knowledge from higher. In

Bhagavat Geeta Krishna mentions - I taught this first to so and so

who taught next to so and so etc - it is guruparampara traced all the

way to Lord. Veda - as knowledge is always pre-existing and it is

not created new - Only thing is when a human mind and intellect

contemplates on the object of knowledge, it develops what is known as

intuition or more appropriately wisdom eye or j~naana chakshu.

Sages, unlike scientists, do not claim as "I discovered the truth"

or' I made a break-through' - They only say that the truth is

revealed to me. Hence Veda-s are revelations. So are the other

scriptures of the world. In kenopanishhat the teacher clearly says

- this is what we learned from our teacher - his teacher would

perhaps repeat the same - he learned from his teacher- etc. It goes

to the beginning -the Lord himself . Veda-s clearly proclaim that

they are taught starting from NarayaNa to four-headed Brahma or

Brahma to sanatkumara-s etc.

 

If one really thinks about it one can see that all knowledge is

apourusheyam - no knowledge is made by man. He only gains the

knowledge when he contemplates on it - This is true for scientific

knowledge as much as to the adhyaatmika knowledge. The famous Dr.

Chandrasekhar wrote an article in Scientific American that all

knowledge takes place by intuition and intuition is hard to define -

Other than explaining that knowledge, which is pre-existing or

apourusheya, comes to an meditative mind.

 

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

--

K. Sadananda

Code 6323

Naval Research Laboratory

Washington D.C. 20375

Voice (202)767-2117

Fax:(202)767-2623

 

 

 

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That was a very lucid explanation. Thank ou Sadananda.

 

Madhavan

>"K. Sadananda" <sada

>advaitin

>advaitin

> Re: vedas being aporusheya

>Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:45:33 -0400

>

>As I understand these are revelations to the above mentioned sages in

>the seat of meditation. Hence the knowledge is revealed to sages not

>that sages discovered the knowledge.

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Greetings:

advaitin, slimaye@a... wrote:

> I had the fortune of listening few lectures by sriman Chari. I have

a

> question about

> vedas being apoushayaa.In every upanishad there is ateacher and a

> disciple,ex:yadnyavalkya teaching Maitreyi or shwetaketu addressing

his son

> etc.

> Since authership is already declared in the sutra,s why then it is

considerd

> apourushaya? can someone elaborate on this please?

> Suresh and Nirmala.

 

The Sringeri Jagadguru's website (http://www.jagadgurus.org/home.asp?

acharyalcode=BT) contains the following speech from the Sringeri

Acharyal that explains the apourushaya aspect of the Vedas:

 

 

Vedas are Ishwara's revelation

 

Shankara Bhagavatpadal in the course of His short life span of 32

years achieved what others cannot even dream of. In His commentaries

on the three principal sacred texts of the Hindus namely, the

Upanishads, the Brahma Sutras and the Bhagavad Gita, He has expounded

the true import of the scriptures.

 

We believe that God revealed the Vedas and that no man is their

author. In the Tarka Sastra it is said, "Sabda is of two forms

worldly and Vedic. The worldly word uttered by a reliable one is a

valid means of knowledge. With regard to the Vedic utterance

everything is valid because it is taught by God.

 

Surely no man could have been the author of the Vedas for therein we

find, among other things, teachings pertaining to the means to

attaining heaven. When one cannot know anything about heaven by non-

scriptural means how could anyone have, by himself, described the

means to attaining heaven? Further, if man wrote the Vedas then the

Vedas could not be considered as valid because compositions of humans

are not guaranteed to be free from defects.

 

Defects of human writings

 

The first of such defects is incorrect understanding. Due to

incorrect understanding of the topic on which one is writing, errors

may creep in. Another possible defect is that of faulty exposition.

One may know well the subject on hand but may make mistakes when

seeking to express what he knows. A third fault is the bad intention

to mislead another. One may know the subject on hand and may be in a

position to expound correctly, but may be possessed with a bad

intention to mislead others. Hence knowingly one may write that which

is not in consonance with what one knows to be correct. Yet another

fault may be that which pertains to the senses of perception. For

instance, a teacher may expound impeccably but if the disciple is

hard of hearing then there are chances of the disciple grasping

faultily. Such faults would constrain the validity of what is

composed by man. The Vedas are fully free from defects since man did

not author them. Indeed it is regarded as beginningless.

 

Import of the Veda

 

When someone expounds something we can ascertain the import of the

teaching by getting clarification from the expounder. In the case of

the Veda, such a facility is non-existent due to the absence of human

authorship. How then is the true import of the Veda to be

ascertained? The import of the Veda is ascertainable by considering

the factors listed by the Mimamsakas (adepts in the study of the part

of the Vedas concerning rituals).

 

The first of these is unity between what is declared at the

commencement and what is declared in the conclusion. This, in fact

should be the case with any good discourse also. In the Upanishads

such as the Chandogya we find the scripture starting a portion

declaring the nature of the Supreme and ending with the same topic.

This test will show that the scripture is intent on expounding the

non-dual Self.

 

The second test is repetition. That which is repeated often may be

taken to indicate the purport. Sometimes, we find people repeating

while lecturing for want of knowledge. Such is not the case with the

Veda wherein emphasis is for driving home something. Here again we

find Advaita philosophy satisfying this test. For instance, in the

sixth chapter of the Chandogya Upanishad we find the utterance

"You

are That" repeated nine times; this utterance is a declaration

showing the identity between the Jiva (the individual soul) and the

Supreme.

 

Another test is that the import must pertain to revealing that which

is not known already. Here again, Advaita passes the test and not

dualism. Even a fool recognizes duality and so there is no need for

the Vedas to come to teach what is already known.

 

In the Vedas we find eulogies to stress some point. For instance, we

find eulogies to induce people to perform a sacrifice. The knowledge

of the non-dual Self is highly eulogized and so this should be that

which is a matter of import. The import must pertain to that which

has a great result. Indisputably the scripture points that the

realization of the non-dual Self has the highest fruit namely freedom

from transmigratory existence and attaining Supreme Bliss.

 

It is seen that Advaita alone satisfies all the tests. Hence it is

clear that this is what the Veda wishes to declare. Shankara has

lucidly expounded the true import of the scriptures in His

commentaries for our benefit.

 

 

(Advice given by His Holiness Sri Bharathi Theertha Mahaswamigal to

devotees in Tenkarai )

 

 

regards,

Sundar Rajan

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