Madhura

August 9, 2001

> This song is Madhurashtakam by Sri

> Vallabhacharya. The song by Sri Shankaracharya also

> sung by M.S. is GovindaAshtakam which begins with

> Sathyam Jnanam Anantham Nityam....

Namaste Anand and all the rest of you who have

responded so quickly on this topic. I can now chase up

a recording here in UK.

Advaita so often becomes dry in the empirical approach

to knowledge that dominates Western thought these days

and although this is a step in the right direction, a

curtain is soon drawn across the essence of the

teaching. A few years back a resolve to find devotion

in advaita arose in me and I was led along a sure and

certain path which I wil not recount here. However on

the way this word 'madhur' was known and I would like

to offer the following:

A series of 'coincidences led me to the Anandashram of

the late Papa Ramdas near Kanhangad. There was

experienced an almost tangible quality of sweetness

and I later came across these words of Papa Ramdas:

'Sugar is sweet. By nature it is sweet. It can never

be bitter. So the Name by nature is sweet. It can

never be bitter. But when this sugar is put in the

mouth of a man who is having some kind of fever, he

finds it not sweet but bitter. He throws it away.

That shows that the man is diseased. Sugar is sweet.

So when we are diseased with low desires, The Name

does not taste sweet to us. We must go to the doctor

who can cure that disease. That doctor is guru, who by

his presence removes our disease of desires and gives

us nectarine Name and you find in that instant that it

is sweet and sweetness comes to you as long as you are

repeating the Name, until at last you become sweetness

itself, not merely the taster of sweetness but

sweetness itself. So you drink and drink and drink the

Name until the drinker and the drink become one.'

One of my functions here is to chair meetings of The

Alister Hardy Society in London which archives

spiritual experiences for study by multi-discipline

academics. From my own research of the archives I

offer the following:

'I was aware of a curious light that seemed to grow up

within me, and became stronger and more defined as the

minutes past...The main sensation was of being loved,

a flood of sweetness of great strength....the

description is quite inadeqaute. I felt a unification

of myself with the external world; I did not lose my

own identity, yet all things and I somehow entered

into each other; all things seemed to speak to me.'

Another writes:

'This force seemd to welcome and enfold me and give me

strength. It seemed to smile invisibly.'

I do not find these statements to be incompatible with

advaita although the language used is governed by the

person's environment...UK people in these

cases...there is no doubt about the substratum to

their experience. When the latter lady speaks of the

smile, and Sada had referred to the innocent smile on

the face of a child, I am reminded of Lord

Krishna...Gita 2v10...and his smile..prahasant...when

Arjuna had finally stopped yattering and fallen silent

while prostrating at Bhagavan's feet. From that smile

flowed the grace of the Gita's teaching.

It is at this level of our experience that I find the

word 'madhur' most appropriate.

Fimally, I am having great trouble getting a copy of

Natalie Isaeva's 'From Early Vedanta to Kashmiri

Saivism.' Suny Press says it is out of print and

Amazon have failed to find a copy after six months of

effort. If anyone sees a copy in their favourite

store please let me know as I would like to purchase a

copy for some future study of sphota and language,

Many thanks,

Ken Knight

Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Messenger

http://phonecard./

August 9, 2001

advaitin, ken knight <hilken_98@Y...> wrote:

>

> Fimally, I am having great trouble getting a copy of

> Natalie Isaeva's 'From Early Vedanta to Kashmiri

> Saivism.' Suny Press says it is out of print and

> Amazon have failed to find a copy after six months of

> effort. If anyone sees a copy in their favourite

> store please let me know as I would like to purchase a

> copy for some future study of sphota and language,

> Many thanks,

> Ken Knight

Greetings Ken,

Here is some info. on the book. Amazon's listed price is $49.95 [for

197 pages!!]

Regards.

s.

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Record for Item: "From early Vedanta to Kas..."( Libraries with Item )

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Title:

From early Vedanta to Kashmir Shaivism :

Gaudapada, Bhartrhari, and Abhinavagupta /

Author(s):

Isaeva, N. V.

Publication:

Albany : State University of New York Press,

Year:

1995

Description:

x, 197 p. ; p., 24 cm.

Language:

English

S SUNY series in religious studies;

Standard No:

ISBN: 0791424499; 0791424502

(pbk.); LCCN: 94-38805

SUBJECT(S)

Descriptor:

Vedanta.

Kashmir Saivism -- Doctrines.

Note(s):

Includes bibliographical references and index.

Class Descrpt:

LC: B132.V3; Dewey: 181/.48

Responsibility:

Natalia Isayeva.

Document Type:

Book

Entry:

19940927

Update:

19950825

Accession No:

OCLC: 31374310

August 9, 2001

In my humble opinion,any-repeat any- discussion

without mentioning God who is the cause of all this,

and experiencing His Sweetness is futile intellectual

acrobatics and will be lost in the vast space of the

Mind and its Mysteries including the trap door of

ego.Sri Krishna calls everyone of us very lovingly:

Manmanaabhava Madbhakto Madyajee Mam namasakuru

On Me fix thy mind;to Me be devoted:Worship Me;Revere

Me!.

Why do we tend to forget this call and wander

away?Like a child enjoying icecream does not open its

mouth lest the enjoyment be interrupted,those yogis

who are ever tasting the Divine Nectar or Amritha of

the Name of Sri Krishna need no further metaphysics or

different philosophical interpretations or paths.That

wonderful sweetness can only be experienced but cannot

be described.The name clears all our doubts.

Pardon me if I am treading on any one's toes or

ignorant of the established philosophies of Great

Scholars ,but I always wondered when the name of

Sweetest Sri Krishna is constantly available to us,why

do we even need to resort to other terms for God like

Brahman,Self etc.unless of course we realize that all

the terms are referring to Sri Krishna only,as the

Lord Himself declared.

--- ken knight <hilken_98 wrote:

>

> > This song is Madhurashtakam by Sri

> > Vallabhacharya. The song by Sri Shankaracharya

> also

> > sung by M.S. is GovindaAshtakam which begins with

> > Sathyam Jnanam Anantham Nityam....

>

> Namaste Anand and all the rest of you who have

> responded so quickly on this topic. I can now chase

> up

> a recording here in UK.

>

> Advaita so often becomes dry in the empirical

> approach

> to knowledge that dominates Western thought these

> days

> and although this is a step in the right direction,

> a

> curtain is soon drawn across the essence of the

> teaching. A few years back a resolve to find

> devotion

> in advaita arose in me and I was led along a sure

> and

> certain path which I wil not recount here. However

> on

> the way this word 'madhur' was known and I would

> like

> to offer the following:

> A series of 'coincidences led me to the Anandashram

> of

> the late Papa Ramdas near Kanhangad. There was

> experienced an almost tangible quality of sweetness

> and I later came across these words of Papa Ramdas:

> 'Sugar is sweet. By nature it is sweet. It can never

> be bitter. So the Name by nature is sweet. It can

> never be bitter. But when this sugar is put in the

> mouth of a man who is having some kind of fever, he

> finds it not sweet but bitter. He throws it away.

> That shows that the man is diseased. Sugar is sweet.

> So when we are diseased with low desires, The Name

> does not taste sweet to us. We must go to the

> doctor

> who can cure that disease. That doctor is guru, who

> by

> his presence removes our disease of desires and

> gives

> us nectarine Name and you find in that instant that

> it

> is sweet and sweetness comes to you as long as you

> are

> repeating the Name, until at last you become

> sweetness

> itself, not merely the taster of sweetness but

> sweetness itself. So you drink and drink and drink

> the

> Name until the drinker and the drink become one.'

>

> One of my functions here is to chair meetings of The

> Alister Hardy Society in London which archives

> spiritual experiences for study by multi-discipline

> academics. From my own research of the archives I

> offer the following:

> 'I was aware of a curious light that seemed to grow

> up

> within me, and became stronger and more defined as

> the

> minutes past...The main sensation was of being

> loved,

> a flood of sweetness of great strength....the

> description is quite inadeqaute. I felt a

> unification

> of myself with the external world; I did not lose my

> own identity, yet all things and I somehow entered

> into each other; all things seemed to speak to me.'

> Another writes:

> 'This force seemd to welcome and enfold me and give

> me

> strength. It seemed to smile invisibly.'

>

> I do not find these statements to be incompatible

> with

> advaita although the language used is governed by

> the

> person's environment...UK people in these

> cases...there is no doubt about the substratum to

> their experience. When the latter lady speaks of

> the

> smile, and Sada had referred to the innocent smile

> on

> the face of a child, I am reminded of Lord

> Krishna...Gita 2v10...and his

> smile..prahasant...when

> Arjuna had finally stopped yattering and fallen

> silent

> while prostrating at Bhagavan's feet. From that

> smile

> flowed the grace of the Gita's teaching.

> It is at this level of our experience that I find

> the

> word 'madhur' most appropriate.

>

> Fimally, I am having great trouble getting a copy of

> Natalie Isaeva's 'From Early Vedanta to Kashmiri

> Saivism.' Suny Press says it is out of print and

> Amazon have failed to find a copy after six months

> of

> effort. If anyone sees a copy in their favourite

> store please let me know as I would like to purchase

> a

> copy for some future study of sphota and language,

> Many thanks,

> Ken Knight

>

> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute

> with Messenger

> http://phonecard./

>

Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Messenger

http://phonecard./

August 9, 2001

Namaste Sagar-ji,

The point you are making does not appear to me as

broad-minded as Sri Krishna's, whom you have quoted partially!

The sweetness of 'intellectual acrobatics' need not be

denied also. There are paths that suit different temperaments, and

until one is satisfied through exhausting the possibilities, other

paths will have to wait.

Sri Krishna says, those who are devotees are offered the

wisdom of Reality in the end, just as the intellectuals are offered

the supreme devotion at the end of the journey.

In Gita, 3:26, Sri Krishna advises the wise to refrain

from unsettling the minds of the ignorant who are attached to action.

He later goes on to describe the various 'yajnas' people perform to

reach the Supreme Spirit.

The knot of ignorance can bind the devotee no less than

the intellectual in all actions that retain the sense of egoism. As

Swami Vivekananda said in the "Song of the Sanyasin', a chain is a

chain even if it is made of the purest gold or the purest 'sattva'.

Regards,

s.

advaitin, BTA SAGAR <btasagar> wrote:

> In my humble opinion,any-repeat any- discussion

> without mentioning God who is the cause of all this,

> and experiencing His Sweetness is futile intellectual

> acrobatics and will be lost in the vast space of the

> Mind and its Mysteries including the trap door of

> ego.Sri Krishna calls everyone of us very lovingly:

> Manmanaabhava Madbhakto Madyajee Mam namasakuru

> On Me fix thy mind;to Me be devoted:Worship Me;Revere

> Me!.

> Why do we tend to forget this call and wander

> away?Like a child enjoying icecream does not open its

> mouth lest the enjoyment be interrupted,those yogis

> who are ever tasting the Divine Nectar or Amritha of

> the Name of Sri Krishna need no further metaphysics or

> different philosophical interpretations or paths.That

> wonderful sweetness can only be experienced but cannot

> be described.The name clears all our doubts.

> Pardon me if I am treading on any one's toes or

> ignorant of the established philosophies of Great

> Scholars ,but I always wondered when the name of

> Sweetest Sri Krishna is constantly available to us,why

> do we even need to resort to other terms for God like

> Brahman,Self etc.unless of course we realize that all

> the terms are referring to Sri Krishna only,as the

> Lord Himself declared.

August 10, 2001

> Fimally, I am having great trouble getting a copy of

> Natalie Isaeva's 'From Early Vedanta to Kashmiri

> Saivism.' Suny Press says it is out of print and

> Amazon have failed to find a copy after six months of

> effort. If anyone sees a copy in their favourite

> store please let me know as I would like to purchase a

> copy for some future study of sphota and language,

> Many thanks,

> Ken Knight

Try www.bookfinder.com. Howard Cowell's "Sphota theory of language"

gives a lucid exposition of sphotavaada.

August 10, 2001

Respected Sagarji:

Namaste,

Today is Janmastami (Lord Krishna's birthday) and several points that

you have raised are worth remembering. I recommend everyone to read

the long but most appropriate essay for Janmasthami written by Swami

Sivanandaji: "Lord Krishna, His Lilas and Teaching." This electronic

text is available at the Website

http://www.sivanandadlshq.org/download/lordkrishna.htm#_VPID_5.

Swamiji starts with a beautiful introduction: "Lord Krishna was the

Purna Avatara with 16 Kalas. Every word of His teachings and every act

of His was full of sublime object lessons of momentous import to

humanity. Study His teachings to Uddhava. Drink the nectar of Srimad

Bhagavata. Sing His glories. Repeat His grand mantra OM Namo Bhagavate

Vasudevaya. Do total self-surrender unto Him. You will soon attain

union with Him." The text also contains the entire Madhurastakam with

English translation. (Ken may love to read and enjoy the English

verses).

Now let me come back to your specific criticisms regarding

philosophical discussions, explanations and interpretations. Though I

respect your opinion but I disagree with several of your contentions.

As Sunderji correctly pointed out that those who enjoy the sweetness

of the Grace of Lord Krishna are not forbidden to enjoy the sweetness

of 'intellectual acrobatics.' Those who experience His sweetness,

get His guidance and love and their 'intellectual acrobatics' are

nothing but His Footprints! For example, Swami Sivananda and Swami

Chinmayananda were great devotees of Lord Krishna and they thoroughly

enjoyed the Lord Krishna's sweetness and His blessings. At the same

time, they also enjoyed performing "intellectual acrobatics" and

thrilled the audience with showers of sweetness. Isn't it true that

Lord Krishna Himself had to engage in 'intellectual acrobatics' to

clear the ignorance of Arjuna.

Finally let me conclude with the English translation of the verses

(provided by Swami Sivanandaji) of Madhurastakam which is most

appropriate on Janmasthami.

Sweet are His lips and His mien is sweet.

Sweet are His eyes as His smiles are sweet.

Sweet is His heart as His bearing is sweet.

The Lord of sweetness is entirely sweet.