the ananda factor

[Guest guest]

it's the *ordinary feeling* one's being, devoid

of analysis by/through thoughts. ramana referred

to it as aham sphoorti, which is the incessant

flow of "i." it's the essence of our every now.

 

the mind seems to however set up an equal and

opposite flow of thoughts [with every hundredth

being a concluding judgment on our state of being,

hence we typically *appear* to be immersed in

ignorance and suffer accordingly].

 

the way is to train ourselves out of this process.

 

its success is met by the discovery that we were

*all along* utterly pure ananda!

 

ananda is our true state, regardless of what we

[vigorously!] think or believe otherwise.

 

ramana said this too: "The greatest obstacle to

Self-realization is the *thought* that one is

not yet Self-realized!"

 

if you ask me, i would suggest required reading

for the List--as prerequisite to the bhagavad

gita or even the upanishads, brahmasutras, etc--

to be TALKS WITH SRI RAMANA MAHARSHI.

 

OM shaanthi shaanthi shaanthiH.

[Guest guest]

Hari Om Frankji:

 

Namaste,

 

Your point is well taken and it is quite accurate description of our

true nature. But it is not easy for ourselves to convince ourself

that "Ananda is our True Nature," and that is our problem. Only with

spiritual maturity, we become convinced. It is spiritual maturity that

can guide us to seek the help of a Stithaprajna such as Sri Ramana and

listening to his words. It is the Samsara Sagara (indulging in the

worldly life) that is responsible for the feeling that one is not yet

self-realized. Shankara's prescription for getting spiritual maturity

to seek the help of all means which includes Gita, Upanishads and

other scriptures and also a qualified Guru such as Sri Ramana.

 

Thanks for posting a motivational article reminding all of us our True

Divine Nature.

 

warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

advaitin, egodust@d... wrote:

.......>

> ananda is our true state, regardless of what we

> [vigorously!] think or believe otherwise.

>

> ramana said this too: "The greatest obstacle to

> Self-realization is the *thought* that one is

> not yet Self-realized!"

> .......

> OM shaanthi shaanthi shaanthiH.

[Guest guest]

The Ananda factor is the most mysterious factor in spite of its name.

The other two factors, namely, the existence factor and the

knowledge factor, are not so mysterious. That we exist, before and

after sleep, as the same entity, is not surprising to us if we don't

think about it deeply. That we know that we slept and woke up also

seems to be obvious to the person who has woken up. But that we

were happy in sleep is more difficult to analyse and comprehend.

Because, the body, mind and intellect having gone to sleep, there

was no physical mental or intellectual help (to the 'lower I' that slept)

for recording that experience of happiness. Wherefrom comes this

memory of Ananda then? It comes because the lower 'I' went and

subsumed itself in the 'higher I' which is nothing but sat-cit-Ananda.

When the lower 'I' later wakes up and by habit claims its identity

with the body, mind, intellect, the happiness (Ananda factor) with

which it was merged, is claimed by the presently awake mind as if it

were its own memory. (By the way the name for this recalling to

memory -of something which was not expertienced - as if it were its

own experience, by the mind, is known as pratyabhijnA).

The mystery about the Ananda factor is, as I said in the beginning,

we do not realize that we are Ananda by nature. That is the mAyA in

which we all live. This mAyA however, does not hide our existence

factor or our knowledge factor. That is why when we wake up from

sleep the only factor that needs explanation is the Ananda factor!

 

praNAms to all advaitins

profvk

 

 

You may access three on-line books of mine at the following site:

http://www.geocities.com/profvk

The books are:

Science and Spirituality - A Vedanta Perception

Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought, Vision & Practice

Overview of Hindu worship with spl. refce. to South India

 

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[Guest guest]

profvk wrote:

>

> Because, the body, mind and intellect having gone to sleep, there

> was no physical mental or intellectual help (to the 'lower I' that slept)

> for recording that experience of happiness. Wherefrom comes this

> memory of Ananda then? It comes because the lower 'I' went and

> subsumed itself in the 'higher I' which is nothing but sat-cit-Ananda.

> When the lower 'I' later wakes up and by habit claims its identity

> with the body, mind, intellect, the happiness (Ananda factor) with

> which it was merged, is claimed by the presently awake mind as if it

> were its own memory. (By the way the name for this recalling to

> memory -of something which was not expertienced - as if it were its

> own experience, by the mind, is known as pratyabhijnA).

 

That is a very interesting explanation indeed. Can you please clarify :

 

(1) Who experienced the Ananda during sleep ? The 'lower I' could not,

without the mind, right ? The ' higher I' is in any case is not an

experiencer.

 

(2) How does pratyabhijnA happen ? Since there is no memory, how does

the mind "recall" an experience it did not have ?

 

(3) The existence factor and the knowledge factor, are they experiences

in the mind ?

 

Regards.

VMS

[Guest guest]

Namasteji,

 

I dont see why Ananda "factor" is mysterious.

The sage Yagnavalka says to Narada, There is happiness

only in the infinite, there can be no happiness in the

finite.

What is it that makes us finite? It is our thoughts.

The moment we are thought free, we are infinite. If we

analyze the moments when we were exceedingly happpy,

we will find that in each of these moments we had

unknowningly lost ouselves (atleast a little bit) in

the object our happiness. It is this dissolution of

the mind which is the cause of happiness even in

material things. The extent to which we dissolve the

mind, the more happy we become. Why should we wonder

at this?

 

Anand

 

--- profvk wrote:

>

> The Ananda factor is the most mysterious factor

> in spite of its name.

> The other two factors, namely, the existence

> factor and the

> knowledge factor, are not so mysterious.

 

 

 

Send instant messages & get email alerts with Messenger.

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[Guest guest]

Ram Chandran wrote:

> .. it is not easy for ourselves to convince ourself

> that "Ananda is our True Nature," and that is our problem.

> Only with spiritual maturity, we become convinced.

 

__________

 

hariH OM! ramji-

namaskaar.

 

i agree with your observations.. with the exception

of the above.

 

it's really *not* a matter of convincing ourselves.

this is among the most commonly held misconceptions,

not only exoterically but even among metaphysicians

who are, by definition, on the esoteric path, such

as vedanta preeminantly avails.

 

rather, it's a matter of releasing our accumulated

wrong notions. and what remains over is our natural

state. ramana pointed this out very carefully and

very poignantly! (this is just one of the reasons

why i'm saying it's so important to read the book

TALKS WITH SRI RAMANA MAHARSHI....a comprehensive

q & a dialogue that speaks in plain [and modern!]

language [i.e. within the modern mindset], that

will--first of all--open unexpectedly significant

doors re practical psychology and hence methodology,

whereupon the *intended* meaning in/of the sastric

discourses become obvious.)

 

i would also recommend reading MAHA YOGA by "who"

(lakshmana sarma) as an introduction to the above

(the reason i didn't is because it's out of print),

which states in its first pages: "This yoga has

been described as a process of *unlearning*..."

 

love and peace

in OM.

 

-frank

[Guest guest]

Namaste Frank-ji,

 

According to this site, the book is now available:

 

http://www.ramana-maharshi.org/booklist.htm

 

 

Regards,

 

s.

 

 

 

>

> i would also recommend reading MAHA YOGA by "who"

> (lakshmana sarma) as an introduction to the above

> (the reason i didn't is because it's out of print),

> which states in its first pages: "This yoga has

> been described as a process of *unlearning*..."

>

> love and peace

> in OM.

>

> -frank

[Guest guest]

 

egodust [egodust]

 

rather, it's a matter of releasing our accumulated

wrong notions. and what remains over is our natural

state. ramana pointed this out very carefully and

very poignantly! (this is just one of the reasons

why i'm saying it's so important to read the book

TALKS WITH SRI RAMANA MAHARSHI....a comprehensive

q & a dialogue that speaks in plain [and modern!]

language [i.e. within the modern mindset], that

will--first of all--open unexpectedly significant

doors re practical psychology and hence methodology,

whereupon the *intended* meaning in/of the sastric

discourses become obvious.)

 

-frank

 

Let me join Sri Frankji in recommending whole heartedly the book "Talks with

Sri Ramana Maharshi."

 

For all advanced practitioners of yoga, meditation, and mature spiritual

aspirants these conversations would be useful in attaining Self-Realization.

The book is equivalent to getting instructions from the highest Sat Guru.

Ramana Maharshi's directness and simplicity is striking and He always

quickly goes to the heart of the matter. It was for this reason that the

greatest Yogis and Swamis from all traditions and Shankracharyas of India

sat at the feet of the Sage of Arunachala.

 

Harsha

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

Excerpt from 'Day by Day with Bhagavan', by A. Devaraja

Mudaliar: [combined reprint 1968] -

 

p. 146 :

 

"Q.- What is the difference betwen sushupti ananda and turiya ananda?

 

A. There are not different anandas. There is only one ananda.,

including the ananda enjoyed during the waking state, the ananda of

all kinds of beings from the lowest animal to the highest Brahma, the

ananda of the Self. The bliss which is enjoyed unconsciously in sleep

is enjoyed consciously in turiya. That is the difference. The ananda

enjoyed during jagrat is upadhi ananda."

 

p. 250 :

'In answer to a visitor, Bhagavan made the following remarks:

 

"You can have, or rather you will yourself be, the highest imaginable

kind of happiness. All other kinds of happiness which you have spoken

of as 'pleasure', 'joy', 'happiness', 'bliss', are only reflections of

the ananda which, in your true nature, you are."

 

No doubt the two books recommended by Frank-ji are outstanding.

To these should be added 'The Garland of Guru's sayings', ['Guru

Vachaka Kovai', in Tamil by Muruganar], transl. Prof. K. Swaminathan.

The Publishers [Ramanashram] Note states: "this treatise provides the

most precise, systematic and authoritative exposition of Sri

Bhagavan's teaching, explaining step by step the theory, the practice

and the experience of jnana, the Truth supreme which is Being as Life

Eternal, pure Awareness, Perfect Bliss."

 

May all seekers remain submerged in this Ocean of Bliss.

 

Regards,

 

s.

 

 

 

 

 

 

advaitin, "Harsha" <harsha-hkl@h...> wrote:

>

> egodust@d... [egodust@d...]

>

> rather, it's a matter of releasing our accumulated

> wrong notions.

>

> Let me join Sri Frankji in recommending whole heartedly the book

"Talks with

> Sri Ramana Maharshi."

[Guest guest]

As Taittriya Upanishad says:

Anandaddhyeva Khalvimani bhutani jayante... - "Verily from joy all

beings have come into existence; by joy, having come into existence,

they are maintained; and into joy they dissolve."

 

I agree that the Ananda factor does not manifest itself as clearly as

the existense and the knowledge factor. It has to be 'churned out'.

 

(in my opinion) The real fun starts in one's spiritual practice

when the manifestation of ananda factor starts to occur.

 

The ananda factor manifests more clearly in the dhyana yoga

(Meditation) path.

 

Svestesvatara Upanishad has these excellent similes:

 

Svadehamaranim krtva pranavam cottararanim;

Dhyananirmathanaabhyasaddevam pasyennigudhavat. (I.14)

 

Svadeham krtva - treat your own body;

aranim - as the lower stick;

pranavam ca uttaranim - Om as the upper stick;

dhyana-nirmathana-abhyasat - meditate on the luminous Self as if you

are rubbing the two sticks;

devam - the Luminous Self

pasyet nigudhavat - see as if hidden deep inside [like fire in

firewood]

 

You should think of your body as the lower stick and pranva, Om, as

the upper one. Meditate as if you are rubbing the two sticks

together. If you go on doing this, you will be able to see within

yourself the luminous Self, which is hidden like fire in firewood.

 

 

Vahneryatha yonigatasya murtirna

drsyate naiva ca linganasah;

Sa bhuya evendhanayonigrhya-

stadvobhayam vai pranaena dehe. (I.13)

 

Wood is the source of fire. You see this fire only when you rub two

pieces of wood against each other. But even when you do not see it,

the fire exists in the wood. In the same manner, the self is always

within us. We realize that Self when we meditate on it with the help

of pranava, Om.

 

After constant practice, the practicing Yogi experiences the supreme

ananda as Lord Krihsna explains in chapter 6.27:

 

pransanta-manasam enam yoginam sukhamuttamam

(Supreme Bliss, indeed, comes to this yogi whose mind has become

perfectly tranquil)

 

 

regards

Sundar Rajan

>

> --- profvk wrote:

> >

> > The Ananda factor is the most mysterious factor

> > in spite of its name.

> > The other two factors, namely, the existence

> > factor and the

> > knowledge factor, are not so mysterious.

>

[Guest guest]

This is in reply to the following questions of VM Sundaram:

>(1) Who experienced the Ananda during sleep ? The

'lower I' could not, without the mind, right ? The ' higher

I' is in any case is not an experiencer.

>(2) How does pratyabhijnA happen ? Since there is no

memory, how does the mind "recall" an experience it

did not have ?

>(3) The existence factor and the knowledge factor, are

they experiences in the mind ?

First of all there was no experience during sleep.

To experience something the mind has to be

awake along with the intellect. If the mind alone is

awake without the intellect being so, then we have

the dream experience. Sleep itself is not an

experience. It is a state of the physical and mental

body. During that state of the body the mind and

intellect making up the lower 'I' is in contact with

the ever-blissful state of the higher 'I'. Therefore

when the body gets back its waking state the lower

'I' returning from a blissful state, is ready to claim

the mind and intellect as itself. And it is at that

point the mind 'recalls' something which it has

not itself experienced. This phenomenon is

pratyabhijnA. The 'how' of this cannot be

explained by me. It is almost a hypothesis of

advaita. Without this hypothesis, the 'memory' of

the ananda factor cannot be explained. The

existence and knowledge factor are also not

experiences. Experience is a transformation from

one state to another. Existence is always there. 'I

am' is a description of our own state. So also 'I

know' and 'I know that I don't know' and 'I don't

know'. But that 'I am happy'

is not agreed to by us as an ever-present state,

because we associate happiness with the body

mind intellect.

I would like experts like Sadanandaji and

Murthygaru to correct me here if I have

blundered.

praNAms to all advaitins

profvk

 

 

You may access three on-line books of mine at the following site:

http://www.geocities.com/profvk

The books are:

Science and Spirituality - A Vedanta Perception

Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought, Vision & Practice

Overview of Hindu worship with spl. refce. to South India

 

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Get your free @ address at