Guest guest Posted August 16, 2001 Report Share Posted August 16, 2001 Namaste Shri Ram Chandran-Ji, Thanks foor your inputs. I however feel that what you call Vyavahara is a subset of what I intended to mean in my postings. By Vyavahara I mean the whole universe of name and form. That is anything other than the Pure state of the Self. Hope this will clear any mis-understanding. Regards Shrinivas Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Messenger http://phonecard./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2001 Report Share Posted August 16, 2001 advaitin, Shrinivas Gadkari <sgadkari2001> wrote: Namaste Sri Shrinivasji: "The Whole Universe of Name and Form" is also a "BELIEF" and I don't see any inconsistency in what I said. TRUTH is only one and that is AtmaJnana and everything else is just a belief which include vyvahara or any hypothesis that any one us proposes! regards, Ram Chandran > Namaste Shri Ram Chandran-Ji, > > Thanks foor your inputs. I however feel that what you > call Vyavahara is a subset of what I intended to mean > in my postings. By Vyavahara I mean the whole universe > of name and form. That is anything other than the Pure > state of the Self. Hope this will clear any > mis-understanding. > > Regards > Shrinivas > > > > > > > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Messenger > http://phonecard./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2001 Report Share Posted August 16, 2001 I have been reading the posts on this subject with interest. Since this is a standard subject of debate among students and experts of advaita I was wondering what Adi Sankara had to say on this in his expository works for the beginner. In Viveka chudamani for instance, slokas 415-419 and 453 to 465, this topic and the related topic of prarabdha-karma vis-a-vis the jnAni are dwelt. The 34th occupant of the Sringeri Pitham, Sri Chandrasekhara Bharati Swamigal has written a sanskrit commentary for Vivekachudamani. Sri Jnanananda Bharati Swamiji, (1889- 1975), a most worthy disciple of the Sringeri paramparA, has written a very lucid explanation, in Tamil, of the above commentary. I pulled out the following ideas from this Tamil exposition, particularly for the slokas mentioned above. Though Atma-jnAna is the same, in terms of the phenomenal world the Atma-jnAnis may be classified into four categories. To the first category belongs those to whom the universe is just mithyA. Such a one is a brahma-vit (meaning, one who knows brahman and therefore has become brahman). Sage Yajna- valkya of the upanishadic fame belonged to this category. They are not only brahma-vits but they taught others to rise to the level of a brahma-vit To that extent they lived in the vyvavahara world To the 2nd category belongs those to whom the 'universe-is- mithyA' experience is stronger and they, even though engulfed by their samAdhi state, could descend down to the vyavahAra level and look at the universe as mithyA even though acting in it. These are the sthita-prajnas of the Gita. They should be known as brahmavid-varaH (meaning, better than a brahma-vit). (vk's note: Perhaps our Ramana Maharishi belongs to this). There is a third category who do not rise from their samAdhi state except by external sAtvic intervention and even then looks at the world only as mithyA. These are called brahma-vid- varIyAn (meaning, best among brahmavits). The author cites Prahlada who is said to have been woken up only by the sound of Vishnu's Conch pAnca-janya. There is a fourth category which is called brahmavid-varishTaH (meaning the most superlative among brahmvits). For them the world does not appear at all. Sloka No.417 says there is nothing except the brahman-experience for this fourth category. The first three kinds will have the prArabda-karma effect, though they are not affected by it. There is a lot more in this commentary to which we may come back if and when the occasion arises. praNAms to all advaitins. profvk You may access three on-line books of mine at the following site: http://www.geocities.com/profvk The books are: Science and Spirituality - A Vedanta Perception Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought, Vision & Practice Overview of Hindu worship with spl. refce. to South India _______ Get your free @ address at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2001 Report Share Posted August 17, 2001 Namaste Shrinivas-ji, advaitin, Shrinivas Gadkari <sgadkari2001> wrote: > Well the claim that it is possible for a me to attain > the Sat-Cit-Ananada state of the Self, that is the > state of Nirguna Brahma, and never ever fall from this > state even to the state of Saguna Brahma is an > hypothesis. I would put my faith in this hypothesis if > a few Seers that I hold in high regard attest this > hypothesis as Shruti. At this stage the hypothesis is > raised to the level of a belief. This belief gets > converted into knowledge when I myself can attest > this belief as Shruti. I feel that this particular > hypothesis cannot be attested as Shruti. To know that > such a state exists, I will have to reach it. And then > by the above hypothesis, I cannot return to the > Vyavaharik level to attest the hypothesis as Shruti. *********If Ramana Maharshi's statements do not convince you, nothing else will. > > I think jiiva and purusha are the same entities. I > re-read 3.42 and (given my extremely limited abilities > at Sanskrit) it says that "beyond the intellect is > He". I would take "He" to mean Self especially in the > light of 3.43. I have not chosen to term the entity : > "a mind animated by the Self" as a purusha > arbitrarily. I have contemplated on this issue for a > long time. purusha always comes in association with > prakriti. > Prakriti exists only when a mind exists. I know people > would jump at me quoting purusha sukta wherein we see > purusha being talked as "Purusha alone is all this > ....", it could be referring to the Saguna-Brahma > state of purusha. **********In the hundreds of references [in the upanishads], to the word purusha, not one has been equated with jiva. You may be taking your stand on Sankhya philosophy, and not on Shankara advaita; purusha [individual souls] and purushottama are like the sparks to the fire, or reflections of the sun in pots of water, or space in a pot to the sky, etc. Regards, sunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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