Guest guest Posted August 26, 2001 Report Share Posted August 26, 2001 OM SRI VIGNA RAJAM BHAJE! VAGDEVI NADAROOPINI SARASWATHI PAHIMAM PAHIMAM! SANKARA DIGVIJAYAM JAGADGURU SANKARA DIGVIJAYAM SRI SADGURU SWAMI CHINMAYANANDAJI KI JAI! This VIVEKACHUDAMANI notes is submitted to the lotus feet of PARAM POOJYA GURUDEV SWAMI CHINMAYANADAJI ---- The Beauty of Adyatmic Life ---- After Guruvandanam, Sri Shanakracharya describes about the beauty of Adyatmic life. JhanthooNam NaraJanma DhurlaBamatha: PumshtVam Thato VipraTha Thasmad Vaidika DharmaMargaParatha VidwathwaMasmath Param AtmaNatmaVivechanam SwanuBhavo BrahmatMana Sumsthithi: Mukthirno SathaKodiJanma SuKriThaei: PunnairVina Labhyathe. Getting a Human Birth is very very rare, Even more difficult is to have the manly Character(Purushatwam), if you born as a Man also having "Brahamanyam" (Swatik Character or Vasanas) is very very difficult, and if you are blessed with all these qualities and to have interest in Vedantic Sadhana is very very rare indeed, and if you have all these qualities and to understand the inner meaning of the "SASTRAS" (Scriptures) is really a rare quality. By millions and billions of Life intelligently lived and by the good merits aquired by that lifes, We cannot get this knowledge which gives "MOKSHA" (Liberation). In the starting of Vivekchudamani itself, Sri Shanakaracharya describes the difficulty to attain Self Realization. To realize that I am "BRAHMAN" and I am not this dream world is very diffcult, but possible. There are countless living and non-living being in this Universe, even in the Stone "BRAHMAN" is present, only thing it is in the form of "SAAT" (Fact, Truth), and that the stone is not consious about it. In the evolution comparing to Stones, Trees & Plants are in a higher State, for them there is a sign of Consiousness of the outer world. But for Different Kinds of Animals, they are able to recognize different types of feelings about outer and Inner World. Human Beings are the Perfect Creation of "GOD" to go beyond Body, Mind, Intellect and realize. If they discipline their life by Self Control, and practice to go beyond the tricks of the Mind & Senses, and if they are away from the Craving to have the Pleasure of Senses, their life can be Peaceful, beautiful, dutiful, enjoyable & Lovable, and he can direct his thoughts to limitless Possibilities. That is Why our Great Rishis has already said that Human Beings are the Perfect ones. But today, in the So called Modern World which is mostly depending on Technology, Whoever is expert in inventing & implementing the Techonology or Machines he is the Perfect One, and that is the common belief. If We accept this view point, Monkeys will be against Us, if they really hear that Human beings are evolved from Monkeys!!. Monkeys will think it is their Prestige Issue!!! Vivekachudamani is for the Man who is at the top most step of evolution, who is a genuine and Sincere Thinker, because even though the flow of emotions & Thoughts are there with them as any other ordinary Man, These evolved Ones can Practice their Dharmic Qualities and Values. For Such a Disciplined and Cultured Man, Vivekchudamani helps to attain Self Realization! As said earlier, to get all the above said qualities and to have the urge to Realize, such kind of Men is very very rare in this world. About these Sloka there is lot of misconception, misinterpretation and misunderstanding among people, apart from it all these misunderstanding have been taken as truth from the Vedas, So because of these misunderstanding, the Pandit People made this sloka as a tool to avoid Women ( The so called Orthodox Brahmins). According to these people (Pandits) Women is not allowd to Practice Vedantic Sadhana! and also they are not born to realize the Self! How These kind of stupid Foolishness came to the Country of Great Rishis, India is very Awkard. Because most of the Sruthis are from our Divine Mothers or for them the Rishis had written. So there is another question, then "Why there is so much Stress and Importance on "Purushatwam" (Manly Qualities), if we want to know the meaning of this, we should have "Vivekashakti" (power of discrimination). In this the importance is not for the kind of Body one has, it does n't matter whether one has male body or female body, Vedanta Sadhana is not done only by the Body, it is done mainly by Mind and Meditation ("Nidhidhyasana") so it has been given importance. So the clearer answer for the question is, a Strong Mind and Intelligence is required to Practice Vedantic Sadhana Sincerely. So the feminine qualities of the Mind, like craving and Emotions, should not be present on the Mind of "Sadhaka" (Seeker). Irrespective of whether they are Men or Women. Discrimination, Courage, Indifference to Mundane things, Equlibrium of the Mind, Calmness, Happiness, these qualities are the"Purushatwam"(manly qualities), for a Human being to attain Moksha, these qualities are very much required, that is the meaning here when Sri Shankaracharya says "Purushatwam"!. To be continued in Part B........................ 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Guest guest Posted August 27, 2001 Report Share Posted August 27, 2001 Namaskar > About these Sloka there is lot of misconception, misinterpretation > and misunderstanding among people, apart from it all these > misunderstanding have been taken as truth from the Vedas, So because > of these misunderstanding, the Pandit People made this sloka as a > tool > to avoid Women ( The so called Orthodox Brahmins). > > According to these people (Pandits) Women is not allowd to Practice > Vedantic Sadhana! and also they are not born to realize the Self! How > These kind of stupid Foolishness came to the Country of Great Rishis, > India is very Awkard. Because most of the Sruthis are from our Divine > Mothers or for them the Rishis had written. > Is there really a lot of misinterpretation ? As Sankara explains in SivanandaLahiri (and perhaps elsewhere in His other works), ===== quote ===== Naratvam.. Whether the birth is in human form or divine form, the form of an animal in the mountain or forest, a mosquito, a domestic beast, a worm or bird etc., how does that body matter if the heart here is intent always in taking pleasure in the wave of supreme bliss by remembrance of your lotus feet. (Sivananda Lahiri 10) === quote ends ==== anybody and everybody is qualified to pursue the path of bhakti towards self realization. The question is : Is everyone and anyone also qualified to pursue the path of Vedanta as well? I am curious. When a truly qualified aspirant hears the truth once the knowledge dawns upon him. To quote from Sarva Vedanta Siddhanta Sara Sangrah, >> 797, No sooner is the meaning of the sentence 'That thou art' made known to the aspirant by the teacher of Vedanta, who follows the method of superimposition and of negation than there arises in the man of pure intellect that supreme mental modification which - knows no change, - and be realizes, 'I am that Brahman who is of the nature of eternal bliss, without a second, incomprehensible, untainted, the One Supreme Reality.' >> Who is such a person who is capable of realizing the truth upon hearing it once? Sankara explains this in verses 795 and 796: >> 795. There are two types of aspirants: both of them are fit to receive this knowledge. They have been classed as those who are preeminently qualified, and those who are only moderately qualified. It depends upon their Capacity for realization; thus. It is that there arises in them a corresponding mental modification. 796. The twice-born who has pleased God by performing with faith and devotion all the rituals enjoined by the Vedas who by the grace of God has earned merit in his previous birth, and as a result of it has now become fit and has been endowed with the requisite means to attain liberation, such as discrimination, renunciation and dispassion, it is such a person who becomes fit to comprehend what the Vedanta teaches Such is the opinion of the good and wise. >> Here again the same Sankara unmistakably refers to the twice-born. Of course that alone is hardly enough. He also adds that the aspirant should become fit and be endowed with sama,dama etc. It appears to me that while learned commentators like Swami Chinmayananda may provide a liberal interpretation, Sankara has in more than one of his works indicated the qualified aspirant for the proper study of Vedanta to be a 'Man' not a person with 'Manly' qualities. This is not to say that others cannot study Vedanta. Ofcourse anybody can because the information is widely available. While the study may enthrall the mind, lift the soul and make one a knowledgable scholar, will it produce the end result (as explained in sloka 797 above)? Sankara seems to indicate NO.. A humble opinion Neither a Pundit nor Orthodox Sundar Rajan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2001 Report Share Posted August 28, 2001 Hari OM! Narayana Smrithis! Blessed Sundarji, Please read Part 2b when I post it. And If one who studies and comtemplates on the Scriptures, if he is not realizing in this brith, may be in next birth he may realize, because of his merits of good Karmas. In our country Vedic Studies & Scriptures was available for only to So called Orthodox people, the only qualification they have was they use to wear the Sacred Thread. And the studies was only for them. Not for the eligible common Man, if he wanted to be also. With Prem & OM Krishna Prasad --- Sundar Rajan <avsundarrajan wrote: > Namaskar > > > About these Sloka there is lot of misconception, > misinterpretation > > and misunderstanding among people, apart from it all these > > misunderstanding have been taken as truth from the Vedas, So > because > > of these misunderstanding, the Pandit People made this sloka as a > > tool > > to avoid Women ( The so called Orthodox Brahmins). > > > > According to these people (Pandits) Women is not allowd to > Practice > > Vedantic Sadhana! and also they are not born to realize the Self! > > How > > These kind of stupid Foolishness came to the Country of Great > Rishis, > > India is very Awkard. Because most of the Sruthis are from our > Divine > > Mothers or for them the Rishis had written. > > > > > Is there really a lot of misinterpretation ? > > As Sankara explains in SivanandaLahiri (and perhaps elsewhere in > His > other works), > > ===== quote ===== > Naratvam.. > > Whether the birth is in human form or divine form, > the form of an animal in the mountain or forest, a > mosquito, a domestic beast, a worm or bird etc., > how does that body matter if the heart here is intent > always in taking pleasure in the wave of supreme bliss > by remembrance of your lotus feet. (Sivananda Lahiri 10) > === quote ends ==== > > anybody and everybody is qualified to pursue the path of bhakti > towards self realization. The question is : Is everyone and anyone > also qualified to pursue the path of Vedanta as well? I am curious. > > When a truly qualified aspirant hears the truth once the knowledge > dawns upon him. To quote from Sarva Vedanta Siddhanta Sara Sangrah, > >> > 797, No sooner is the meaning of the sentence 'That thou art' made > known to the aspirant by the teacher of Vedanta, who follows the > method of superimposition and of negation than there arises in the > man of pure intellect that supreme mental modification which - > knows > no change, - and be realizes, 'I am that Brahman who is of the > nature > of eternal bliss, without a second, incomprehensible, untainted, > the > One Supreme Reality.' > >> > > Who is such a person who is capable of realizing the truth upon > hearing it once? > > Sankara explains this in verses 795 and 796: > > >> > 795. There are two types of aspirants: both of them are fit to > receive this knowledge. They have been classed as those who are > preeminently qualified, and those who are only moderately > qualified. > It depends upon their Capacity for realization; thus. It is that > there arises in them a corresponding mental modification. > > 796. The twice-born who has pleased God by performing with faith > and > devotion all the rituals enjoined by the Vedas who by the grace of > God has earned merit in his previous birth, and as a result of it > has > now become fit and has been endowed with the requisite means to > attain liberation, such as discrimination, renunciation and > dispassion, it is such a person who becomes fit to comprehend what > the Vedanta teaches Such is the opinion of the good and wise. > >> > > Here again the same Sankara unmistakably refers to the twice-born. > Of > course that alone is hardly enough. He also adds that the aspirant > > should become fit and be endowed with sama,dama etc. > > It appears to me that while learned commentators like Swami > Chinmayananda may provide a liberal interpretation, Sankara has in > more than one of his works indicated the qualified aspirant for the > > proper study of Vedanta to be a 'Man' not a person with 'Manly' > qualities. > > This is not to say that others cannot study Vedanta. Ofcourse > anybody > can because the information is widely available. While the study > may > enthrall the mind, lift the soul and make one a knowledgable > scholar, will it produce the end result (as explained in sloka > 797 > above)? > > Sankara seems to indicate NO.. > > A humble opinion > > Neither a Pundit nor Orthodox > Sundar Rajan > > > > > > > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Messenger http://phonecard./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2001 Report Share Posted August 29, 2001 On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 22:03:32 Sunder Rajan wrote : [snip] > Here again the same Sankara unmistakably refers to the twice-born. [snip] I beg to disagree. Twice-born commonly refers to a Brahmin ("dwivaram jayate iti dwijaha - one who is born twice - once at natural birth and then on wearing the sacred thread), but that does not mean one has to be born a Brahmin. In this extract from "Article sent by Hindu" yesterday on "How Sanskrit should be taught", please refer to the quotes on women and sudras. One quote says that "Sudras of good conduct are entitled to sacred therad." -- quote -- > A high caste male should emulate the praiseworthy > conduct of a > woman or a person of low caste. > (Manusmriti II.223) > One should obtain knowledge of supreme dharma even > from a dalit. > (Manusmriti II.238) > Sudras of good conduct are entitled to the Sacred > Thread. > > (Paraskara Grihya Sutra 2.6) > Women should study the Vedic texts. > > (Gobhila Grihya Sutra 1.2) -- end quote -- Given the logical, consistent and universal nature of Vedanta, it is difficult to comprehend how it could be prescribed to everyone but have its fruit left for the enjoyment of a select few, that too based on one's birth. Limiting the definition of "intended beneficiaries" to only Brahmins excludes not just other Hindus but also people elsewhere in the world. I do not believe that is Shankara's intent. Not just Swami Chinmayanadaji, but even Swami Vivekananda and other Vedantic giants have not given such a narrow interpretation. - Shirish Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Messenger http://im. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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