good-muslim

[Guest guest]

--------------------------------

Good Muslim!

 

If you are a good muslim, please QUIT ISLAM to condemn the barbaric act of

osama bin laden. Follow Science as your Religion, Education as your

Qur-On(or Bible or Veda), accept Energy as your God. Doing good things to

Humanity (Social service, planting trees etc) as your Rituals of Religion.

Believe on "Theory of Evolution" of Charles Darwin.

 

I request all news media to write the name of osama bin laden in small

letters like "osama bin laden" instead of "Osama bin Laden".

--------------------------------

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Sugavan:

 

In expressing our sentiments over the recent tragedy in the US, let us

not go overboard. Honestly, a Good Muslim or a Good Hindu, or a Good

Christian need not quit the religion of his/her choice. The adjective

good should be attributable if and only if they fully understand the

message of their respective religions. Religions as such do not preach

hatred and fanaticism and only those who misunderstand the message

inject pain to themselves and to others.

 

Religions are like the rivers and their purpose is to serve those who

need them. Unfortunately both the rivers and the religions got

polluted by egocentric selfish people. Our life will be definitely

better when the religion and river become purer and less polluted.

There is no reason for us to either the religion or the river.

 

Please also note that science is not a replacement for religion.

(Quotation from Einstein: 'Religion without science is blind and

science without religion is vain.')

Also energey is not a replacement for God (God is much more than just

energy!). Also the purpose of rituals of religions is also for doing

good to the humanity and is definitely not for selfish gains.

 

warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

advaitin, "sugavan" <nsugavan@v...> wrote:

> --------------------------------

> Good Muslim!

>

> If you are a good muslim, please QUIT ISLAM to condemn the barbaric

act of

> osama bin laden. Follow Science as your Religion, Education as your

> Qur-On(or Bible or Veda), accept Energy as your God. Doing good

things to

> Humanity (Social service, planting trees etc) as your Rituals of

Religion.

> Believe on "Theory of Evolution" of Charles Darwin.

[Guest guest]

13th Sep.

Hari OM,

 

--- Ram Chandran <rchandran wrote:

> Religions as such do not preach

> hatred and fanaticism and only those who

> misunderstand the message inject pain

 

While I agree entirely with Mr. Ramchandran on

advising restraint in calling names, I wish to point

out that some religions expressly point out that other

religions and gods are not true and only they are

correct. They indeed advocate war and killing of

enemies, both as defence and for propagation of their

views.

 

I think Hindu's of tha past millinieum were a little

bit naive to believe in their own "peaceful" behavior

generalizing it on all the invaders. As a result they

lost most of their territory and orginal scriptures.

Several major terrorist attacks , similar to one now

done is US where less than 10 people killed more than

10000, took place on India without any proper military

response. That is why from being one of the richest

countries we ended being one of the poorest.

 

I read that one of the aborigin tribe in Austarlia

decided not to conduct war, soon they were extinct. So

Hindus need a better military understanding of the

world. While an ultimate reality is a good goal, it

does not preclude instinct for suvival and we should

not be sitting ducks as we were in the past and are

still doing so in Kashmir. Self restraint in the face

of unrpovoked violence and injustice is not

recommended as stated by Lord Krishna in Gita.

 

Pranams to all

P.B.V.Rajan

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

> Von: Rajan PBV [rajanpbv]

>

 

Harih Om,

 

I think the above subject is out of the scope for this list. So let

us stop discussing it any further.

 

 

How ever, I would like to say a few words before closing this email,

if I don't say it may mean I am in agreement with some of the things

happening in this world! The Almighty Shiva will never forgive me

for keeping my mouth shut.

 

 

Dear Ramji,

 

Hatred has no place in humanity. People perish by their own hate.

Judge not for you will be judged! I am told, never judge with your

emotion, judge with your Intellect.

 

> --- Ram Chandran <rchandran wrote:

>

> > Religions as such do not preach

> > hatred and fanaticism and only those who

> > misunderstand the message inject pain

>

 

With pure *acadamic* interest I would like to counter your above

statement. Please consider the below passages. Rajan can vouch for

this, in Saudi Arabia papers "The Arab News (religious column)" run

Q&A on Islamic belief. If anyone who is a non muslim puts a

question, then his name and next to his name it will be written in

bold letters as NON-BELIEVER! :-) Funny isn't it? Actually most of

the questions are from people belong to Christian faith, but they are

solemnly branded as Non-Believers!

 

You know what Quron says about non-believers?

 

3:56: "As to those who disbelieve, I will punish them with a severe

torment in this world and in the Hereafter, and they will have no

helpers."

 

Quran, 9:29: "Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2)

nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by

Allâh and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not Islam as

the religion of truth among the people of the Scripture, until they

pay the Jizyah [religious tax] with willing submission, and feel

themselves subdued.".

 

LET US PUT AN END TO THE HATRED. However, let us not drown our

intellects by closing our eyes and ears. LEARN WE MUST! NOT WITH A

HEART FILLED WITH HATRED, but to know what will be good for humanity

and to reject evil.

 

Yours,

Madhava

[Guest guest]

Dear Madhava,

Perfectly put, Madhava. You pulled words out of my mouth. I almost responded

to some of the hateful and pacifying e-mails on this topic yesterday to the

Advaitin list, but decided not-to.

How many eons it takes for a human to understand "Take Action You Must, But

with NO Hatred, Vengeance, and Anger that bind us for ever and ever"?

There is a tendency among educated, sophisticated, politically correct,

mis-guided modern day rational persons (which includes many Indians) to

pacify the recent horrific violence with generalities of greatness of all

religions including Islam. Your few quotations are quite revealing. There

are many more. People can go and read them themselves.

There is also a tendency among the same but emotional persons to condemn ALL

Arabs indiscriminately for the recent dastardly acts of the few in the name

of Bhagavad Gita quoting how Lord Krishna himself guided Arjuna to fight his

evil kith and kin and how we should do the same to all Arabs. But they

forget or can not grasp Krishna never for a moment asked Arjuna to take the

action with hatred or vengeance, or anger.

This is my last and only response on this topic.

-- Vis

--------------------

-

<madhava

<advaitin>

Thursday, September 13, 2001 1:48 AM

Re: good-muslim

 

 

> Von: Rajan PBV [rajanpbv]

>

 

Harih Om,

 

I think the above subject is out of the scope for this list. So let

us stop discussing it any further.

 

 

How ever, I would like to say a few words before closing this email,

if I don't say it may mean I am in agreement with some of the things

happening in this world! The Almighty Shiva will never forgive me

for keeping my mouth shut.

 

 

Dear Ramji,

 

Hatred has no place in humanity. People perish by their own hate.

Judge not for you will be judged! I am told, never judge with your

emotion, judge with your Intellect.

 

> --- Ram Chandran <rchandran wrote:

>

> > Religions as such do not preach

> > hatred and fanaticism and only those who

> > misunderstand the message inject pain

>

 

With pure *acadamic* interest I would like to counter your above

statement. Please consider the below passages. Rajan can vouch for

this, in Saudi Arabia papers "The Arab News (religious column)" run

Q&A on Islamic belief. If anyone who is a non muslim puts a

question, then his name and next to his name it will be written in

bold letters as NON-BELIEVER! :-) Funny isn't it? Actually most of

the questions are from people belong to Christian faith, but they are

solemnly branded as Non-Believers!

 

You know what Quron says about non-believers?

 

3:56: "As to those who disbelieve, I will punish them with a severe

torment in this world and in the Hereafter, and they will have no

helpers."

 

Quran, 9:29: "Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2)

nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by

Allâh and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not Islam as

the religion of truth among the people of the Scripture, until they

pay the Jizyah [religious tax] with willing submission, and feel

themselves subdued.".

 

LET US PUT AN END TO THE HATRED. However, let us not drown our

intellects by closing our eyes and ears. LEARN WE MUST! NOT WITH A

HEART FILLED WITH HATRED, but to know what will be good for humanity

and to reject evil.

 

Yours,

Madhava

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of

Atman and Brahman.

Advaitin List Archives available at:

http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/

To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

 

 

 

Your use of is subject to

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 madhava wrote:

>

>

> Harih Om,

>

> I think the above subject is out of the scope for this list. So let

> us stop discussing it any further.

>

> [...]

 

namaste.

 

Some of the points made by shri Madhava and others may be quite

valid.

 

However, I think it would be a fruitless exercise and is against

what we are seeking on this List, if we disparage the bad points

of one religion. It may indeed be intellectual closing-of-eyes

but still no good will come out of even delicate pointing of

believer/non-believer classification etc of the muslim religion,

particularly in these days when emotions are running high.

I would respectfully request that this thread be terminated

at this stage.

 

Regards

Gummuluru Murthy

---

[Guest guest]

advaitin, ken knight <hilken_98@Y...> wrote:

>

>

> > If you are a good muslim, please QUIT ISLAM to

> > condemn the barbaric act of

> > osama bin laden.

>

> Dear Friends, With respect to all those who are

> expressing rage and grief at this time may I just

> introduce some scripture from the Bhagavad Gita

> 2v11-13:

> The Blessed Lord said:

> 'You grieve for those who should not be grieved for;

> yet you spell words of wisdom. The wise grive neither

> for the living nor the dead. Nor I, nor you, not any

> of these ruling princes was ever non-existent before;

> nor is it that we shall cease to be in the future. As

> the indweller in the body experiences childhood, youth

> and old age in the body, he also passes on to another

> body. The serene one is not affected thereby.'

> We live in a world of change that we try to freeze in

> our chosen mode of happiness. This will always lead

> to confusion and it is very important at this time

> that those seeking Truth shine the light of knowledge.

> In this way the sattva will rise and dominate the

> natural effusion of rajas in these circumstances. As

> someone once caught up in Hindu/Muslim riots in

> Bangalore..and born into a country and town being

> bombarded by Hitler.....I have no wish to see such

> things again. It behoves us all to allow the fire of

> rajas to rise up in us, that is to be expected as it

> is part of the changing cycle, but then to allow

> knowledge to come in and direct our actions as we

> renounce all dharmas presence of the Lord,

> Peace to you all

> Ken Knight

>

 

Ken,

 

Thank you for sharing that truly beautiful passage from the Gita.

It points to the deeper truth, perhaps the deepest Truth, that is

the only true and lasting answer to the sorrows of so-called

human life and suffering. In the truth and reality of the One, the

Ineffable Joy, we may all find refuge, not as an escapism from

the world, but as an awakening to what *is* so that our lives and

actions become truly a light to the world, even while we are in,

but not of, the world.

 

With affection,

Steve

[Guest guest]

> Thank you for sharing that truly beautiful passage

> from the Gita.

 

 

Dear Steve, I return the thanks as I was worried that

to introduce this text at such a time would be

inappropriate. Personally I have learned to always

turn to scripture when the events we face seem so vast

that they seem to be beyond our comprehension. The

Gita begins with the two words Kurukshetre,

Dharmakshetre. From these two words I understand that

all the events/battles of the physical world have a

subtle level as well as the manifest forms and we have

to learn to observe both while resting in the

substratum without which they could not manifest.

I agree with the list organisers that this strand

should not be followed for too long but if we look to

the scripture the outer emotional responses will soon

be sublated by the ever flowering Vedantic teachings

which I hear in every scripture that I study,

Peace and Happiness to all

Ken

 

 

 

Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?

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[Guest guest]

Arvind,

This is what I told you. My reply to M's posting comes first.

-- Vis

-

"R. Viswanathan" <drvis

<advaitin>

Thursday, September 13, 2001 6:46 AM

Re: Re: good-muslim

 

> Dear Madhava,

> Perfectly put, Madhava. You pulled words out of my mouth. I almost

responded

> to some of the hateful and pacifying e-mails on this topic yesterday to

the

> Advaitin list, but decided not-to.

> How many eons it takes for a human to understand "Take Action You Must,

But

> with NO Hatred, Vengeance, and Anger that bind us for ever and ever"?

> There is a tendency among educated, sophisticated, politically correct,

> mis-guided modern day rational persons (which includes many Indians) to

> pacify the recent horrific violence with generalities of greatness of all

> religions including Islam. Your few quotations are quite revealing. There

> are many more. People can go and read them themselves.

> There is also a tendency among the same but emotional persons to condemn

ALL

> Arabs indiscriminately for the recent dastardly acts of the few in the

name

> of Bhagavad Gita quoting how Lord Krishna himself guided Arjuna to fight

his

> evil kith and kin and how we should do the same to all Arabs. But they

> forget or can not grasp Krishna never for a moment asked Arjuna to take

the

> action with hatred or vengeance, or anger.

> This is my last and only response on this topic.

> -- Vis

> --------------------

> -

> <madhava

> <advaitin>

> Thursday, September 13, 2001 1:48 AM

> Re: good-muslim

>

>

>

> > Von: Rajan PBV [rajanpbv]

> >

>

> Harih Om,

>

> I think the above subject is out of the scope for this list. So let

> us stop discussing it any further.

>

>

> How ever, I would like to say a few words before closing this email,

> if I don't say it may mean I am in agreement with some of the things

> happening in this world! The Almighty Shiva will never forgive me

> for keeping my mouth shut.

>

>

> Dear Ramji,

>

> Hatred has no place in humanity. People perish by their own hate.

> Judge not for you will be judged! I am told, never judge with your

> emotion, judge with your Intellect.

>

>

> > --- Ram Chandran <rchandran wrote:

> >

> > > Religions as such do not preach

> > > hatred and fanaticism and only those who

> > > misunderstand the message inject pain

> >

>

> With pure *acadamic* interest I would like to counter your above

> statement. Please consider the below passages. Rajan can vouch for

> this, in Saudi Arabia papers "The Arab News (religious column)" run

> Q&A on Islamic belief. If anyone who is a non muslim puts a

> question, then his name and next to his name it will be written in

> bold letters as NON-BELIEVER! :-) Funny isn't it? Actually most of

> the questions are from people belong to Christian faith, but they are

> solemnly branded as Non-Believers!

>

> You know what Quron says about non-believers?

>

> 3:56: "As to those who disbelieve, I will punish them with a severe

> torment in this world and in the Hereafter, and they will have no

> helpers."

>

> Quran, 9:29: "Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2)

> nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by

> Allâh and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not Islam as

> the religion of truth among the people of the Scripture, until they

> pay the Jizyah [religious tax] with willing submission, and feel

> themselves subdued.".

>

> LET US PUT AN END TO THE HATRED. However, let us not drown our

> intellects by closing our eyes and ears. LEARN WE MUST! NOT WITH A

> HEART FILLED WITH HATRED, but to know what will be good for humanity

> and to reject evil.

>

> Yours,

> Madhava

>

>

>

Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of

> Atman and Brahman.

> Advaitin List Archives available at:

> http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/

> To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

> Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

>

>

> Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of

Atman and Brahman.

> Advaitin List Archives available at:

http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/

> To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

> Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>