Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 namaste. I am trying to understand Chandogya upanishad vi.3.2. It says seyaM devataikshata, hantAham imAs tisro devatA anena jIvenA'tmAnA'nupravishya nAmarUpe vyAkaravANIti S. Radhakrishnan's translation is That divinity thought, 'Well, let me enter into these three divinities by means of this living self and let me then develop names and forms.' [The three divinities referred are the living beings having only three origins: those born from an egg, born from a living being, born from a sprout.] Now, my question is: Is there creation from HiraNyagarbha to the minutest mosquito or even the unmoving things, and *then* brahman entered into these, or is it, brahman transforms itself into each of these things (of name and form) by mAyA? i.e., did the creation take place and *then* name and form emanated or is this a simultaneous process? Or, put in other words: How did this *entry* (referred in Ch. u. iv.3.2) take place? Is this "entry" post-creation? or, is by the *entry*, it is meant just like snake "entered" the rope, i.e. as we mistake the rope for a snake? i.e. snake has "entered" the rope? Any clarifications? Regards Gummuluru Murthy --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 Namsate Murthy-Ji, If I may ask you to rephrase your question in general terms, without any reference to the upanishad it might help providing a better answer. For when a question regarding say a topic like creation, is posed the way you have posed your question, one is forced to answer it within the framework that the Rishi of the particular quote had in mind. Thus limiting the scope of the inquiry. Regards Shrinivas > I am trying to understand Chandogya upanishad vi.3.2. > It says > > seyaM devataikshata, hantAham imAs tisro devatA anena > jIvenA'tmAnA'nupravishya nAmarUpe vyAkaravANIti > > S. Radhakrishnan's translation is > > That divinity thought, 'Well, let me enter into these three > divinities by means of this living self and let me then develop > names and forms.' > > [The three divinities referred are the living beings having > only three origins: those born from an egg, born from a living > being, born from a sprout.] > > Now, my question is: > > Is there creation from HiraNyagarbha to the minutest mosquito > or even the unmoving things, and *then* brahman entered into > these, or is it, brahman transforms itself into each of these > things (of name and form) by mAyA? i.e., did the creation take > place and *then* name and form emanated or is this a simultaneous > process? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 On Fri, 28 Sep 2001 sgadkari2001 wrote: > Namsate Murthy-Ji, > > If I may ask you to rephrase your question in general terms, > without any reference to the upanishad it might help > providing a better answer. For when a question regarding > say a topic like creation, is posed the way you have posed > your question, one is forced to answer it within the framework > that the Rishi of the particular quote had in mind. Thus > limiting the scope of the inquiry. > > Regards > Shrinivas > namaste shri Shrinivas-ji, I see your point. My question arose out of my attempt to understand ch.u. statement and hence the question is put that way. Any comment you may have in a much more general perspective, I am sure, will be useful for the over-all understanding. Regards Gummuluru Murthy -------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 Namaste Murthy Garu, The three devataa-s refer to the three elements - fire, water and earth; and not to the creatures. [Radhakrishnan -Principal Upanishads, p. 450 [Allen & Unwin, 4th impression 1974]; there is a 19 line explanation after the translation. The mantra is also taken up in Brahmasutra Bhashya II:iii:17; II:iv:20; and III:ii:6 & 21. Regards, sunder advaitin, Gummuluru Murthy <gmurthy@m...> wrote: > > namaste. > > I am trying to understand Chandogya upanishad vi.3.2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2001 Report Share Posted September 29, 2001 advaitin, Gummuluru Murthy <gmurthy@m...> wrote: > > S. Radhakrishnan's translation is > > That divinity thought, 'Well, let me enter into these three > divinities by means of this living self and let me then develop > names and forms.' > > [The three divinities referred are the living beings having > only three origins: those born from an egg, born from a living > being, born from a sprout.] > Namaste Shri Murthy-Ji, I do not have access to Chandogya upanishad, hence can't refer to the context of this quote, however Shri Suder-Ji's interpretation of the three divinities as elements seems very appropriate. > Now, my question is: > > Is there creation from HiraNyagarbha to the minutest mosquito > or even the unmoving things, and *then* brahman entered into > these, or is it, brahman transforms itself into each of these > things (of name and form) by mAyA? i.e., did the creation take > place and *then* name and form emanated or is this a simultaneous > process? > > Or, put in other words: > > How did this *entry* (referred in Ch. u. iv.3.2) take place? > Is this "entry" post-creation? > > or, is by the *entry*, it is meant just like snake "entered" > the rope, i.e. as we mistake the rope for a snake? i.e. > snake has "entered" the rope? > > Any clarifications? > Now once we interpret the divinities as elements, we can read it as: That divinity thought, 'Well, let me enter into these elements, by uniting this living self with them. With the elements under control, I can then create any object of name and form'. This quote seems to be directed at students of yoga aspiring to conquer elements rather than an account of Hiranyagarbha's creation. Since I have not referred to the Upanishad, I may be wrong. Warm regards Shrinivas p.s. A Note on Hiranyagarbha's creation: This topic needs more attention from students of Vedas. A modern Vedist faces a serious problem. There is an account of creation in Puranas, there is this theory of creation proceeding from sound, there is the Sankhya description of creation. Plus there is evidence from cosmology pointing at something like a big bang model, there is irrefutable proof in support of evolution, there are reasons to believe that several billion years ago earth did not exist, statements like "there was water all over before creation" need a major re-interpretation if not rejection. A modern student of Vedas has to address all these issues satisfactorily if he is to be taken seriously. I will try to post something on this topic. If members of this forum are interested we can hopefully make some progress on this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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