Fw: Verses 15,16 & 17 Chapter 2

[Guest guest]

Shree Nagaraj - here is my understanding and of course you can post

all my replays where ever you want as long as it helps somebody and

does not confuse the seekers!

 

>Dear Shree Sadananda,

>

>Thank you very much for the reply. There is a specific querry in

>Jay' e-mail where he is challenging the readers to find a single

>shloka in Geetha in support of advaitha tenet--Here I quote from

>his e-mail:

>

>***** start quote ****

>

>Where in the Geetha has SriKrishna said "Oh Arjuna,

>you and Me are one and the same? ". I encourage all

>of you to look into the Geetha and come up with one

>single shloka which even hints at this.

 

Giita is not primarily intended to discuss the nature of reality. It

is mainly a yogashaastra and taught not to Vedantic student as in

Upanishads but to a man of action like Arjuna. On the contrast

Uddhava Giita is where the student is more contemplative and ready to

retire and the teaching is at a different level. Hence as a yoga

shaastra B. Giita deals with saadhana and any saadhana is dvaita

involving saadhaka and saadhya. Hence most of the discussion of the

absolute nature is indirect or based on shaastriiya anumaana.

 

Hence if you are looking for a statement "you and me are one and the

same"- - you may find that statement in Bible but not in B. Giita.

 

But there are statements to that effect sprinkled throughout. For

that only one should read Shankara Bhaashhya. Shankara uses many of

the Giita sloka-s in his Suutra bhaashhya to illustrate the point -

some I have discussed with reference to Suutra-s 1 and 2 in my notes.

I am giving below information of how one can download the notes if

one is interested.

 

Now the specifics:

1. The 13th chapter deals with kshetra and kshetraj~na. There are

only two here - kshetra and kshetraj~na - the field and the knower of

the field. No third factor.

 

Idam shariiam kountaya kshetam iti abhidiiyate | - hence anything

that can be pointed as 'this' is 'kshetam' or field - that include,

body, mind and intellect.

'yetadyo vettitam praahuH kshetraj~na iti tad vidaH| - the knower of

'this' keshtra is called 'kshetraj~naa". I am the one who knows my

body, my mind and my intellect - this is my body, this is my mind and

this is my intellect - and I am the knower of all 'this'. and I the

jiiva am the knower of this 'kshetra'.

Krishna does not stop there. He proceeds: - he says I am the

kshetraj~na in all the kshetra-s. I am the knower of all the fields.

 

2. In the ninth chapter:

Mayaatatam idam sarvam jagat avyakta muurthinaa|

mastaani sarvabhuutani na cha aham teshu avasthitaH|

I pervade this entire universe in an unmanifested form. all are in me

and but I am not in them.

(Here is where one can see that interpretation of Krishna's statement

is required since he again contradicts the above statement in a way

in the sloka that follows). This entire 'this' idam sarvam - hence

'kshetram' - is manifestations of naama and ruupa - and I am the one

that pervades this entire manifestations. They are in me but I am

not in them - like ocean saying all waves are in me but I am not in

them in the sense their birth, death and six phases of suffering are

do not belong to me. - hence he says - pasyam me yogam aishvaram' -

see my glory - Are the waves different from the ocean - there is

small wave, big wave, one swallowing the other etc. Yet are nothing

but the glory of ocean- ocean pervades every part of the wave - wave

cannot be without the ocean - they raise in ocean, sustained by ocean

and go back into the ocean - yet they are in me but I am not in them.

They are my glory - I pervade them in an unmanifested form.

 

3. in the fourth chapter:

 

brahmaarpaNam brahma haviH brahmaagnau brahmaNaahutam|

braham eva tena gantavyam brahma karma samaadhinaa|

Indicating that everything is nothing but brahman, one without a second.

 

4. In the sixth chapter -

sarva bhuutastam aatmaanam sarvabhuutaani ca attmani|

iikshate yoga yuktaatmaa sarvatra sama darshanaH||

In terms of self-realization - one who sees all being in oneself

and one self in all beings - he is the one who has the equanimity and

one who is yogi or one who has yoked his mind or a man of

realization. From Bhakti point Krishan proceeds the same statement in

terms of Krishna -

yo maam pasyati sarvatra sarvancha mayi pasyati|

tasya aham na praNasyaami sa cha me na praNasyati||

One who sees me everywhere and everything in Me, He will never be

away from me and I from Him. The same state is defined from the

point of aatma as well as paramaatma.

 

5. In the seventh chapter:

bhuumiH aapaH analaH vaayuH kham manaH buddhiH evacha|

ahankaaraH iti iyam me bhinnaa prakR^iti ashhTadhaa||

 

apreyam itaH tu anyaam prakR^itim viddhi me paraam|

jiiva bhuutaam mahaabhaaho! yayedam dhaaryate jagat||

He provides all the manifestations that comes under idam kshetam -

that consists of the five elements and include the subtler equipments

- the mind and intellect - as my eight fold nature of prakRiti - the

field- The knower of the field is different from the field - hence

the next sloka - apareyam ... know me that I am above these that

supporting all manifestations..

Thus one can see self-consistency in his teaching in 9th chapter

sloka - maata idam ... and 13th cap sloka-s about kshetra and

kshetraj~na as ' I am the knower of all the kshetra-s". Me and

prakR^iti are not two, it is only my lower nature and My true nature

is unmanifested form that pervades and supports everything - like

suutre mani gaNaa eva - like the invisible thread that supports the

beads in the chain. Because mayaa adhyaksheNa praK^iti suuyate sa

charaa charam| - in my direction only the prakR^iti which is my lower

nature manifests.

 

7. In the 10th chapter - He say to arjuana - "I am arjuana" - It is

like Gold saying I am the ring and necklace etc.

 

8. In the fifteenth Chapter:

mama iva amsho jiiva loke jiiva bhuutaH sanaatanaH| - all the jiiva

buuta-s are my manifestations only like gold says all golden

ornaments are my manifestations and they are eternally gold even when

they exist as variety of ornaments. Hence we need to go back to

Upanishad statement to interpret this correctly - Ch Up. state after

establishing that 'sat' alone exists which is chit swaruupa since it

says - tad aikshata - and proceeds - bahusyaam - prajaayeyeti - I

want to become many and decided to become many - one becoming many -

and provides the same gold example to illustrate how - ekena loha

maninaa ... vaachaarambhano vikaaro naama dheyam etc.

 

9. People quote the sloka in 2nd cha. - natvevaaHam jaatunaasam ...."

to establish multiple jiiva-s - but that is to say - there are

multiple ornaments of gold - jiiva bhuuta-s. After discussing the

aatma cannot be destroyed, cannot be cut or dried etc He proceeds:

achchhedyoyam adaahyoyam akledyoyam ashoya iva cha|

nityam sarvagatam sthaNuH achalaH ayam sanaataNaH||

 

while summarizing the indestratability of aatma, he says in the

second part that it is eternal, all pervading (sarvagatam), firmly

established and immovable. This cannot applied if there are many

jiiva-s which are tiny - ayam sthaaNuH ayam nityaH and ayam

sarvagataH and ayam achalaH - mobility is only for that which is

limited. Multiple jiiva-s can move around but if the essence is only

one and advaita - one without second and all-pervading no movement

can be possible since it is sarvagatam - all pervading. Bhagavaan

Ramanuja interprets this as all pervading only in the body although

it is very tiny- anu parimaaNaat.

 

The point is each aacharya has interpreted the sloka-s differently.

B. Geeta has to be understood not independently but with Vedanta as

the main pramaana since shruti pramaana superseeds the smR^it

pramaaNa. Definition of a pramaaNa includes - abhaadita aspect - it

cannot be negated. In this, higher pramaaNa supersedes the lower.

 

What is that which is beyond pramaaNa is - ones own existence - I

exist and I am conscious entity - I don't need any means or pramaaNa

to establish that. Since I exist all pramaaNa-s become validated.

Hence I exist not because Giita says so or Upanishads say so - I

exist absolutely. What the Upanishads teach us is not only I am sat

and chit but I am ananda swaruupa as well since I am searching for

that all the time. anantam eva anandaH - happiness is unlimitedness

since any limitation cause unhappiness. Hence I am sat chit and

ananda - satyam j~naanam anantam - aham brahma asmi.

 

Hence truth is declared as 'aprameyam' - cannot be known! - I am the

knower and I can know anything other than me and I cannot become an

object of my own knowledge. Hence knowing is equal to being or

becoming - brahmavit braham eva bhavati - is the shruti statement -

knower of an object cannot become an object of his knowledge unless

the object is the subject - himself. The analysis is self-consistent.

 

If I am aananda then why I am searching for it - because I take

myself as I am limited - hence we need yoga shaastra to realize my

true nature. Hence B. Geeta as the manual for those who think they

are different from the totality. Teaching is not about one ness but

how reach that oneness. Hence emphasis of Giita is saadhana and not

discussion of saadhya. Giita has to be understood in relation to

Upanishads which center on Saadhya.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

----------------------

Information about notes on Brahmasuutra:

Notes on Brahmasuutra-s are now stored in a folder and can be accessed at

advaitinNotes+on+Brahmasuutra/

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-------------------------

 

 

>

>On the contrary through out the Geetha, you only see

>SriKrishna saying "taanyaham veda sarvaaNi na tvam

>vettha parantapa" ( I know it all but you do not )

>"vedaaham samateetaani vartamaanaani chaarjuna |

>bhavishyaaNi cha bhootani maam tu vEda na kaschana "

>7.26

 

--

K. Sadananda

Code 6323

Naval Research Laboratory

Washington D.C. 20375

Voice (202)767-2117

Fax:(202)767-2623

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

To add to the impressive list of quotations chosen by Sada-ji,

here are some others that also merit deep contemplation:

 

4:6 - ajaH api san avyaya aatmaa bhuutaanaam iishvaraH api san.h .

prakR^iti.n svaam adhishhThaaya saMbhavaami aatmamaayayaa ..

[Although I am birthless and My nature is imperishable,

although I am the Lord of all beings, Yet by cotntrolling

My own material nature, I come into being by My own power.]

 

10:20 - aham aatmaa guDaakesha sarvabhuutaashayasthitaH .

aham aadiH cha madhya.n cha bhuutaanaam anta eva cha..

[i am the Self, O Arjuna, seated in all beings. I am the

beginning, the middle and the very end of beings.]

 

10:37 - paaNDavaana.n dhana~njayaH .................

[i am Arjuna among the Pandavas .............]

 

13:30 - yadaa bhuuta pR^ithag bhaavam akastham anupashyati .

tataH eva cha vistaaraM brahma saMpadyate tadaa ..

[When one realises the whole variety of beings as resting in

the One, and from that One alone spreads out, then one

attains Brahman.]

 

14:27 - brahmaNaH hi pratishhThaa aham amR^itasya avyayasya cha .

shaashvatasya cha dharmasya sukhasya ekantikasya cha ..

[i am the abode of Brahman, the Immortal and the

Imperishable, of eternal law and of absolute bliss.]

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

 

 

 

advaitin, "K. Sadananda" <sada@a...> wrote:

> Shree Nagaraj - here is my understanding and of course you can post

> all my replays where ever you want as long as it helps somebody and

> does not confuse the seekers!

>

>

> >Dear Shree Sadananda,

> >

> >Thank you very much for the reply. There is a specific querry in

> >Jay' e-mail where he is challenging the readers to find a single

> >shloka in Geetha in support of advaitha tenet--Here I quote from

> >his e-mail:

> >

> >***** start quote ****

> >

> >Where in the Geetha has SriKrishna said "Oh Arjuna,

> >you and Me are one and the same? ". I encourage all

> >of you to look into the Geetha and come up with one

> >single shloka which even hints at this.

[Guest guest]

advaitin, sunderh wrote:

>>

> 10:20 - aham aatmaa guDaakesha sarvabhuutaashayasthitaH .

> aham aadiH cha madhya.n cha bhuutaanaam anta eva cha..

> [i am the Self, O Arjuna, seated in all beings. I am the

> beginning, the middle and the very end of beings.]

>

 

As a side note, according ramaNa this is the essence of giita.