Guest guest Posted November 23, 2001 Report Share Posted November 23, 2001 Hari Om, I know from books that there are three states of mind. 1. Deep sleep state 2. Dream state 3. and the state of awareness. In deep sleep state or dream state we will not be aware of what is happening in the world but once we come back to waking state we can know how well we slept or what sort of a dream we had. But at the time of experiencing deep sleep or a dream, we will not be aware that we are in such a state. So my question is what is that we have in waking state that is absent in deep sleep or dream state? Is it the intellect that is absent in our dream or deep sleep? It might sound like a very silly question. But can anyone of you give me a convincing answer and remove this doubt? Thanks in Advance, Ram Prasad _______________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2001 Report Share Posted November 23, 2001 >Hari Om, > >I know from books that there are three states of mind. > >1. Deep sleep state >2. Dream state >3. and the state of awareness. > >In deep sleep state or dream state we will not be aware of what is happening >in the world but once we come back to waking state we can know how well we >slept or what sort of a dream we had. But at the time of experiencing deep >sleep or a dream, we will not be aware that we are in such a state. > >So my question is what is that we have in waking state that is absent in >deep sleep or dream state? Is it the intellect that is absent in our dream >or deep sleep? > >It might sound like a very silly question. But can anyone of you give me a >convincing answer and remove this doubt? > >Thanks in Advance, >Ram Prasad Shree Ram Prasad there is no question in Vedantic study that is silly - only question that is silly is the one that was not asked. In the waking state - the body (sthuula shariira) the mind and intellect (the suukshma shariira) and the vasanas (the kaaraNa shariira) all are active. The body- consciousness dominates when I identity with perceptions and actions at the body level. The mind-consciousness dominates when I identify myself with my feelings and the intellect-consciousness dominates when I identify with my intellectual accomplishments. The vasana-consciousness dominates when I identify with my likes and dislikes. In the dream state the body-consciousness is withdrawn. It gets maintained by the sub-conscious levels. I identify mostly with the mind- Intellect level with at low level. KaranaNa shariira will also be functioning with likes and dislikes and with suppressions and oppressions of the waking mind. In the deep sleep state both mind and intellect also get folded and my indentification is only with the kaarana Shariira - It manifests as ignorance - I donot know etc. Since the mind and intellect are not there the projecting power is gone only the non-apprehension part remains. Since mind is not there - I call this as indeterminate problem since no determination can be made with I exists or the world exists. The absence of the mind is recognized by the mind during the gap and it makes a statement that " I slept well" - but it was not there to sleep well - if it was there then there is no sleeping well! Because of the absence of mind all the duality stops or should I say all the notions of duality stops. Projecting of duality starts again once the mind becomes active as in waking and dream states. The whole Mandukya upanishad address this issue of three states and state that there is one that is present in all the three states and independent of the three states. That is " I am" - I am a waker, I am a dreamer and I am a deep sleeper - the waking, dream and deep sleep states changing but I remain the same - that is called to differentiate from the changing states as the fourth - the turiiya state - which is absolute changeless state. Hari Om! Sadananda -- K. Sadananda Code 6323 Naval Research Laboratory Washington D.C. 20375 Voice (202)767-2117 Fax:(202)767-2623 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2001 Report Share Posted November 23, 2001 Hello, > So my question is what is that we have in waking state that is absent in > deep sleep or dream state? Is it the intellect that is absent in our dream > or deep sleep? I have understood it this way. Maya is two-fold. 1. It veils the Truth. 2. It projects an illusory world. A. veiling + projection => waking state and dream state B. veiling + no projection => deep sleep C. no veiling + projection => savikalpa samadhi or sahaja samadhi D. no veiling + no projection => nirvikalpa samadhi I see no difference between waking and dream states. The state of C is what I see in realized saints. I do not know if the above is in accordance with the scriptures. May be one of the moderators can clarify. With love, Gomu. ===== --------------- Email: gokulmuthu Webpage: http://www.geocities.com/gokulmuthu/ Phone: +91 80 6689904, 6689938, 6780026-9 +91 80 2384190-3 Ext. 226 +91 44 8140104 --------------- GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities./ps/info1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2001 Report Share Posted November 23, 2001 >Hello, > >> So my question is what is that we have in waking state that is absent in >> deep sleep or dream state? Is it the intellect that is absent in our dream >> or deep sleep? > > I have understood it this way. Maya is two-fold. >1. It veils the Truth. >2. It projects an illusory world. > >A. veiling + projection => waking state and dream state >B. veiling + no projection => deep sleep >C. no veiling + projection => savikalpa samadhi or sahaja samadhi >D. no veiling + no projection => nirvikalpa samadhi > >I see no difference between waking and dream states. The state of C is >what I see in realized saints. I do not know if the above is in >accordance with the scriptures. May be one of the moderators can clarify. > >With love, >Gomu. > Yes you are right. veiling is the same as non-apprehension or ignorance and projection can involve misapprehension when there is ignorance but appreciation of the ones own glory or Lord's glory when there is a knowledge. - The last two (C&D) are also called aatma rati and aatma kriiDa, respectively. (A) involves - both objective and subjective objectifications in the waking state and only subjective objectification in the dream state. These are called vyaavahaarika and praatibhaasika, respectively. The last one is paaramaarthika. Hari Om! Sadananda -- K. Sadananda Code 6323 Naval Research Laboratory Washington D.C. 20375 Voice (202)767-2117 Fax:(202)767-2623 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2001 Report Share Posted November 23, 2001 dear ram prasad i do not know much but i can tell u that it is not a silly question i think it is an intelligent question proves --if at all it is required-- that in intelligent persons, intelligence does not sleep when they r awake ! good question. i m also eager to know the answer jaynkbali On Fri, 23 Nov 2001 Ram Prasad wrote : > Hari Om, > I know from books that there are three states of mind. > 1. Deep sleep state > 2. Dream state > 3. and the state of awareness. > In deep sleep state or dream state we will not be aware > of what is happening > in the world but once we come back to waking state we > can know how well we > slept or what sort of a dream we had. But at the time > of experiencing deep > sleep or a dream, we will not be aware that we are in > such a state. > So my question is what is that we have in waking state > that is absent in > deep sleep or dream state? Is it the intellect that is > absent in our dream > or deep sleep? > It might sound like a very silly question. But can > anyone of you give me a > convincing answer and remove this doubt? > Thanks in Advance, > Ram Prasad > ______- > _________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > Sponsor > > Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of > nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. > Advaitin List Archives available at: > http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > To Post a message send an email to : > advaitin > Messages Archived at: > advaitin/messages > Your use of is subject to the > Terms of Service > . Visit my site on 'BHAGVAD GITA', a spiritual delight.You will love it. http://in.geocities.com/gitabykrishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2001 Report Share Posted November 23, 2001 shri sadanand jee thanks for enlightment i v much liked your "there is no question in Vedantic study that is silly - only question that is silly is the one that was not asked." is it a quotation from vendanta or your own wisdom thanks again On Fri, 23 Nov 2001 K. Sadananda wrote : > >Hari Om, > > > >I know from books that there are three states of > mind. > > > >1. Deep sleep state > >2. Dream state > >3. and the state of awareness. > > > >In deep sleep state or dream state we will not be > aware of what is happening > >in the world but once we come back to waking state > we can know how well we > >slept or what sort of a dream we had. But at the > time of experiencing deep > >sleep or a dream, we will not be aware that we are > in such a state. > > > >So my question is what is that we have in waking > state that is absent in > >deep sleep or dream state? Is it the intellect that > is absent in our dream > >or deep sleep? > > > >It might sound like a very silly question. But can > anyone of you give me a > >convincing answer and remove this doubt? > > > >Thanks in Advance, > >Ram Prasad > Shree Ram Prasad there is no question in Vedantic study > that is silly > - only question that is silly is the one that was not > asked. > In the waking state - the body (sthuula shariira) the > mind and > intellect (the suukshma shariira) and the vasanas (the > kaaraNa > shariira) all are active. The body- consciousness > dominates when I > identity with perceptions and actions at the body > level. The > mind-consciousness dominates when I identify myself > with my feelings > and the intellect-consciousness dominates when I > identify with my > intellectual accomplishments. The > vasana-consciousness dominates > when I identify with my likes and dislikes. > In the dream state the body-consciousness is > withdrawn. It gets > maintained by the sub-conscious levels. I > identify mostly with the > mind- Intellect level with at low level. KaranaNa > shariira will also > be functioning with likes and dislikes and with > suppressions and > oppressions of the waking mind. > In the deep sleep state both mind and intellect also > get folded and > my indentification is only with the kaarana Shariira - > It manifests > as ignorance - I donot know etc. Since the mind > and intellect are > not there the projecting power is gone only the > non-apprehension part > remains. Since mind is not there - I call this as > indeterminate > problem since no determination can be made with I > exists or the world > exists. The absence of the mind is recognized by > the mind during the > gap and it makes a statement that " I slept > well" - but it was not > there to sleep well - if it was there then there is no > sleeping well! > Because of the absence of mind all the duality stops or > should I say > all the notions of duality stops. Projecting of > duality starts again > once the mind becomes active as in waking and dream > states. > The whole Mandukya upanishad address this issue of > three states and > state that there is one that is present in all the > three states and > independent of the three states. That is " I > am" - I am a waker, I > am a dreamer and I am a deep sleeper - the waking, > dream and deep > sleep states changing but I remain the same - that is > called to > differentiate from the changing states as the fourth - > the turiiya > state - which is absolute changeless state. > Hari Om! > Sadananda > -- > K. Sadananda > Code 6323 > Naval Research Laboratory > Washington D.C. 20375 > Voice (202)767-2117 > Fax:(202)767-2623 > > Sponsor > > Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of > nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. > Advaitin List Archives available at: > http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > To Post a message send an email to : > advaitin > Messages Archived at: > advaitin/messages > Your use of is subject to the > Terms of Service > . Visit my site on 'BHAGVAD GITA', a spiritual delight.You will love it. http://in.geocities.com/gitabykrishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2001 Report Share Posted November 24, 2001 >shri sadanand jee >thanks for enlightment >i v much liked your >"there is no question in Vedantic study that is silly >- only question that is silly is the one that was not asked." >is it a quotation from vendanta or >your own wisdom Baliji as usual it is borrowed wisdom. I came to this world with complete ignorance and whatever knowledge I have is due to blessing of Lord in the form of many teachers including most compassionate of all my own Gurudev - Shree Chinmayanandaji. There is nothing that I can claim as my own other than my misunderstandings. Hari Om! Sadananda >thanks again > > > >Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of >nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. >Advaitin List Archives available at: ><http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/>http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advait\ in/ >To Post a message send an email to : advaitin >Messages Archived at: ><advaitin/messages>\ advaitin/messages > > > >Your use of is subject to the ><> -- K. Sadananda Code 6323 Naval Research Laboratory Washington D.C. 20375 Voice (202)767-2117 Fax:(202)767-2623 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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