discrimination

[Guest guest]

Namaste Swaminarayan,

> On ruminating, I wonder if the base of Chittam is

> Chaitanyam.If Chaitanyam is Brahman then what is

> "Pragyaanam"?

 

Pragyaanam Brahman is the mahaavaakya at the core of

our advaitic tradition and maybe we should use this

term rather than chaitanyam. I view these as the same

but different audiences require languages relevant to

their traditions. I do not know enough to distinguish

between the two and would welcome further direction

from contributors.

>

> For Chittam to be Brahman, It has to be "Tri guna

> rahitam" The same goes for Budhi and Manas!

 

To go beyond the three gunah seems to me to be an

apparent process of dissolving...or allowing to exist

in equipoise.....manas then buddhi then chitta. Ie.

through discrimination manas is brought under control

and is not effective until there is a movement out

once more to 'creation'. The buddhi is now free from

the delusory 'I like' and 'I do not like' and too

becomes quiescent. Now it seems to me that there is a

flash of understanding and this is the reflective

quality of chitta, a pure state of chitta in which

sattva dominates and in that flash it too becomes

quiescent and so the process of going beyond the three

gunah is complete. The prakriti is at rest.

Now the verse in Gaudapada that you quote seems to be

illustrating this so thank you for directing me to it.

The verse is 3.46 of the Karika. (Can you please let

us know the number of the verses which you quote as I

have to read the Sanskrit from the first verse, first

chapter each time to track down your references as I

do not know the text by heart.)

> "Yada na leeyate Chittam na cha vikshipyate punaha,

> Aninganam anaabhaasam nishpannam Brahma tat tadaa."

 

For those without the text here are the relevant

verses from 43 to 48:

43. 'Constantly remembering that everything is full of

misery, one should withdraw the mind from the

enjoyment arising out of desire. Remembering ever the

fact that the birthless Brahman is everything, one

does not surely perceive the born (The host of

duality).

44.One should wake up the mind merged in deep sleep;

one should bring the dispersed mind into tranquility

again; one should know when the mind is tinged with

desire ( and is in a state of latency). One should not

disturb the mind established in equipoise.

45. One should not enjoy happiness in that state; but

one should become unattached through the use of

discrimination. When the mind, established in

steadiness, wants to issue out, one should concentrate

it with diligence.

46. When the mind does not become lost nor is

scattered, when it is motionless and does not appear

in the form of objects, then it becomes Brahman.

47. That Highest Bliss is located in one's own Self.

It is quiescent, coexistent with liberation, beyond

description, and birthless. It is identical with the

unborn knowable (Brahman), they call it Omniscient (

Brahman).

48. No individual being, whichsoever, takes birth. It

has no source (of birth). This (Brahman) is that

highest Truth where nothing whatsoever takes birth.'

 

We note that in verse 46 we have gone beyond the

vibration, earlier discussed as spanda, 'like a lamp

in a windless place'.

 

To me that is the process I was trying to set out

above in my own words.

 

Finally, I do not know if I have said this before but

Paanini gives the following dhatvartha for the dhattu

chita...sa~ncetane...to be fully conscious. This does

not add much for me but maybe someone else could

develop it.

 

Om sri ram

Ken Knight

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Ken,

May the Almighty Bless you.

 

The Sarvopanishad forming a part of the Atherva Veda

declares as follows and the same can help us in our

excercise in 'Discrimination' :

 

 

When the essence of Conciousness which manifests

itself as the three states, is a witness of the three

states,but is itself devoid of states, positive or

negative,and remains in the state of non-seperation

and oneness,then it is spoken of as the Turiya,the

fourth.

 

That which, owing to its proximity to the Self,appears

as imperishable and is attributed to Atman,is called

the Linga Sharira(subtle body),and the 'heart's knot'.

The Conciousness which manifests itself therein is

called the Kshetrajna, knower of the kshetra(body).

 

He who is the cogniser of the manifestation and

disappearance of the knower, knowledge and the

knowable,but is himself devoid of such manifestaion

and disappearance,and is self-luminous,is called the

Sakshi, Witness.

 

When being perceived in an undifferentiated manner in

the intelligence of all beings,from Brahma down to an

ant,it resides in the intelligence of all beings,then

it is called the Kutastha.

 

When, standing as the means of realising the real

nature of the Kutastha and others,which are

differentiations by virtue of possessing limiting

adjuncts,the Atman manifests itself as inter-woven in

all bodies,like the thread through a string of

jewels,then it is called the Antaryamin,Internal

Ruler.

 

When the Atman shines forth - absolutely free from all

limitng adjuncts,brilliant,as a homogenious mass of

conciousness in its nature of Pure

Intelligence,independent - then,it is spoken of as the

Entity of "Thou"(Tvam),and as the Pratyagatman,Inner

Self.

 

Satya (the Reality),Jnana (Knowledge),Ananta (the

Infinite),Ananda (Bliss), is Brahman.

 

The Reality is the indistrustable;that which,when

name,space,time,substance and causation are

destroyed,dies not,is the indistructable;and that is

called Satya, the Reality.

 

And Jnana-that essence of Intelligence which has no

begining and no end,is spoken of as Jnana.

 

And Ananta ,the Infinite,as clay in modifications of

clay,as gold in modifications of gold,as thread in

fabrics of thread,the antecedent,all-pervading

Conciousness,that is in all phenomena of creation

beginning with the Unmanifested,is called the

Infinite.

 

And Ananda,Bliss- the essence of the conciousness of

happiness,the ocean of measureless bliss,and the state

of undifferentiated happiness is called Bliss.

 

That ,of which the above fourfold nature is an

indication,and which is permanent in all space,time,

substance and causation is called the Entity of "That"

(Tat)Paramatman,Supreme Self,and Para-Brahman, or the

Highest Brahman.

 

Distinguished from the Entity of "Thou" possessed of

attributes,as well as from the Entity of "That"

possessesd of attributes,that which is all-pervading

like the sky,subtle,whole by itself ,pure

Existence,the Entity of "Art" (Asi) Self luminous is

spoken of as the Atman.The Entity of "not-That", also

is spoken of as Atman.

 

That which is beginningless,fruitful,open to both

proof and disproof,neither real nor unreal,nor

real-unreal-non-existent,when because of the

immutability of its own substratum,the cause of change

is ascertained;-existent when it is not

ascertained-which is undefinable, is called Maya.

 

Hari Om!

 

Swaminarayan.

 

 

 

 

--- ken knight <hilken_98 wrote:

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

I am assuming that this is the same upanishad as Sarvasara

upan. of Krishna Yajur-Veda.

 

The Sanskrit version is available at:

 

http://sanskrit.gde.to/doc_upanishhat/doc_upanishhat.html

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

 

 

 

advaitin, Swaminarayan T <tvswaminarayan> wrote:

> The Sarvopanishad forming a part of the Atherva Veda

> declares as follows and the same can help us in our

> excercise in 'Discrimination' :

>

[Guest guest]

--- Swaminarayan T <tvswaminarayan wrote:

> Dear Ken,

> May the Almighty Bless you.

 

Dear Swaminarayan,

This beginning was so very appropriate to the start of

the coming week; a week which includes some 'big'

moments for this, 'my', lifetime. We never know what

will happen from day to day although we are deluded

into thinking that we have 'plans'. This week I can

have no plans. So I thank you most fully for that

greeting.

It may be that this is one of my last postings to the

site...please see my note to the moderators that I

will write shortly....so I thank you for this

discussion which has enabled me to clarify some

long-held questions. I hope that it has been valuable

to you also.

>

> The Sarvopanishad forming a part of the Atherva Veda

> declares as follows and the same can help us in our

> excercise in 'Discrimination' :

>

>

> When the essence of Conciousness which manifests

> itself as the three states, is a witness of the

> three

> states,but is itself devoid of states, positive or

> negative,and remains in the state of non-seperation

> and oneness,then it is spoken of as the Turiya,the

> fourth.

 

I have printed this whole text and will be carrying it

with me.

In case I cannot get back on-line for a while may I

end with 4.89 from Gaudapada:

'Knowledge and the threefold knowable being known, one

after another, the knower possessed of the highest

reason spontaneously attains to the state of knowledge

everywhere and in all things in this very life.'

 

Om sri ram jai jai ram

 

Ken Knight

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Shri Sunderji,

 

I am unable to decipher the electronic language of

Sanskrit text given in the URl cited by you. Could you

kindly let me know as to where I can get the method

for reading the text from the web site given by you?

 

Could it be that the Atherva Veda enumerates the same

Upanishad from Krishna Yajur Veda? How does it then

baecome authentic?

 

Regards,

 

Hari Om!

 

 

Swaminarayan.

--- sunderh <sunderh wrote:

> Namaste,

>

> I am assuming that this is the same upanishad

> as Sarvasara

> upan. of Krishna Yajur-Veda.

>

> The Sanskrit version is available at:

>

>

http://sanskrit.gde.to/doc_upanishhat/doc_upanishhat.html

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunder

>

>

>

> advaitin, Swaminarayan T

> <tvswaminarayan> wrote:

>

> > The Sarvopanishad forming a part of the Atherva

> Veda

> > declares as follows and the same can help us in

> our

> > excercise in 'Discrimination' :

> >

>

>

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste Swaminarayanji,

 

Please open/save the .ITX file [of any upanishad] at URL: [Pl.

make sure to exclude any extraneous material in the original file!!]

 

http://sanskrit.gde.to/doc_upanishhat/doc_upanishhat.html

 

Then 'select'/copy only the text portion of the file, and

paste it in the box at URL:

 

http://sanskrit.gde.to/web-interface/itrans.html

 

From the drop-down menu boxes choose any language-script, font

size, prose/lines, etc. and click on submit; you will get the output

in the script chosen, which you can save as a file.

 

For .PS files one has to install the ghostview software, for

..PDF files the Acrbat Reader, for .XDVNG files the special font, for

..GIF files no other fonts or software is necessary; the only drawback

is that it gives only one page-length of output.

 

As far as the question of authenticity goes, I can only say

that it is in the publication of the Sringeri Math, and my personal

view is:

 

The Shankara Mathadhipatis are known as :

 

brahmanishhTha [devoted to Brahman alone]

shrotriya [learned in the Vedas through shruti tradition]

saampradaayika [followers of a Spiritual Tradition]

sa.nnyaasii [initiated in the Order of Sanyasa ]

aapta [live solely dedicated for the spiritual welfare

of humanity and all 'creation']

 

Their endorsement of authenticity of scriptural works needs no

further validation by academic scholars who fail to qualify on any of

these attributes.

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

advaitin, Swaminarayan T <tvswaminarayan> wrote:

> Dear Shri Sunderji,

>

> I am unable to decipher the electronic language of

> Sanskrit text given in the URl cited by you. Could you

> kindly let me know as to where I can get the method

> for reading the text from the web site given by you?

>

> Could it be that the Atherva Veda enumerates the same

> Upanishad from Krishna Yajur Veda? How does it then

> baecome authentic?

>

> Regards,

>

> Hari Om!

>

>

> Swaminarayan.

> --- sunderh <sunderh> wrote:

> > Namaste,

> >

> > I am assuming that this is the same upanishad

> > as Sarvasara

> > upan. of Krishna Yajur-Veda.

> >

> > The Sanskrit version is available at:

> >

> >

> http://sanskrit.gde.to/doc_upanishhat/doc_upanishhat.html

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Sunder

> >

> >

> >

> > advaitin, Swaminarayan T

> > <tvswaminarayan> wrote:

> >

> > > The Sarvopanishad forming a part of the Atherva

> > Veda

> > > declares as follows and the same can help us in

> > our

> > > excercise in 'Discrimination' :

> > >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

> Send FREE video emails in Mail!

> http://promo./videomail/

[Guest guest]

Namste Sunder and others,

Firstly, many thanks for the e-card that you sent, and

many thanks to all of you who sent your blessings

before this body went off for its latest slash and

hack on the operating table. With scans and chops and

colonoscopies no new cancer has been detected, the

latest post-incisional hernia has been repaired and

prarabhda unfolds. With grace abounding the next step

can be taken.

 

Re. discrimination. The night before going into

hospital my wife and I were awoken by a noise which

revealed itself to be a picture of Ramana Maharshi

falling from the wall and rolling under the computer

desk. Taking this as a sign to take into hospital some

of his words my eyes fell on a copy of 'Tripura

Rahasya'...a book that had sat on the shelf unread

since I bought it a Ramanashram some four years ago.

Ramana had greatly praised this work and lamented its

unavailability in English.

Swami Ramanananda Saraswati has rectified this and his

translation can be found at:

www.vinnica.ua/~sss/tripura1.htm

 

This was a perfect choice and when I came to read

Chapter 14, verses 59 to the end of the chapter, I

found a wonderful contribution to our discussion with

Swaminarayan on prakriti, chaitanya, chit and chitta.

 

If necessary I will type out the verses if people

cannot access the site but the slashing and the

hacking of the tummy, two evenings ago, makes it

necessary to keep typing sessions short for the

moment.

 

Thanks you again for all your support,

 

Om sri ram

Ken Knight

 

 

 

 

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