Guest guest Posted December 20, 2001 Report Share Posted December 20, 2001 Namaskars to all, Greetings and prayers for the New Year. I have some thing to say reading some messages to our learned members, and some reactions. I am not sure how relevant this will be but then with lot of hesitation after posting my last mail i am sending in this mail. Vadantha meaning the end of Vadas, as I have heard people say comes at the last stage of learning after we have learned the basic vadas, performed our daily rituals to purify our selves and other things which are essential for us to reach the state of understanding and experiencing the ultimate. Now from the mails I receive I see that some of us seems to be jumping the guns and directly moving on to the last stage and I want to asked the learned scholars out here is this the correct thing to do?. I also want to ask the scholars that we had followed in our ancient times the varnashra darma and does that have any relevance in the present times. I also like to add a simple example for my belief that stages are essential in once learning of vadantha. When we learn about electricity whatever be the example given all that is futile but one experience of switching on a light to show the power of it answers it all. But then that light is not electricity but then it is essential for one to experience its power and helps us move to the higher plane of learning about the electricity but once we learnt more about electricity we then have to discard the original experience and come to know that it is much more. This is to do with nithay karma where we do pooja to deity and then we discard the experience once we have the higher plane of experience. Similarly the paths prescribed by the scriptures are essential for us to move up towards the experience of advaitha. I have read the discussions on Ramana Maharish and Sri Maha Parival of Kanchi. The main observation I make of what Kanchi Muni stood for has been his orthodox principle of the need to follow nithya karma by one and all as instructed to us in the scriptures. He also believed that the verses from Geetha where Lord Krishna extensively critics people who do not perceive the path of realization and only following the rituals as being misquoted. I think this was the basic for some of the so-called criticism by him on Ramana Maharish. I hope the comment made is relevant to the topic being discussed. Oh Sri Ganashya Namaha, Love to all Ranga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2001 Report Share Posted December 21, 2001 Greetings and best wishes to all from India. Sadananda Shree Ranga wrote: Namaskars to all, Greetings and prayers for the New Year. I have some thing to say reading some messages to our learned members, and some reactions. I am not sure how relevant this will be but then with lot of hesitation after posting my last mail i am sending in this mail. ------------------ Greetings to you too Shree Ranga and thanks for your input. ------------- Ranga: Vadantha meaning the end of Vadas, as I have heard people say comes at the last stage of learning after we have learned the basic vadas, performed our daily rituals to purify our selves and other things which are essential for us to reach the state of understanding and experiencing the ultimate. Now from the mails I receive I see that some of us seems to be jumping the guns and directly moving on to the last stage and I want to asked the learned scholars out here is this the correct thing to do?. I also want to ask the scholars that we had followed in our ancient times the varnashra darma and does that have any relevance in the present times. -------------- KS: According to Shankara it is not necessory that one should do karma-s and other rituals before one takes up Vedanta study. What is essential is the chitta sudhhi or purity of mind. And who are we to evaluate the purity of mind of others and how can we do that also – I mean what norms are we going to use to evaluate whether someone else has mind pure enough to do contemplation on the vedantic truths. What you said is true – it requires a purified mind – or four-fold qualifications for vedanta to do its job. There are two factors invovled here. 1. We cannot judge others whether they have the necessory qualifications that is needed – all we can do evaluate overselves and indulge in the appropriate sadhana to gain the required qualification. What kind of sadhana required - whether it is pure karma yoga or rituals ordained by karma khanda or others or bhakti yoga etc. depends again on the individual. 2. The second factor is even if one is not prepared, the study of vedanta is not a waste. It is like the connecting new bulb in the place of dead bulb. If the line is not live, the new bulb will not glow. But if it is alive, it will glow instantly. But on the other hand, if he line is not live, one can go back and turn the dimmer switch on and slow turn to full potential – that already connected bulb will now glow. Furthermore the study and discussion of vedanta itself could be a sadhana that purifies the mind and makes it free from doubts. ------------------- Ranga: I also like to add a simple example for my belief that stages are essential in once learning of vadantha. When we learn about electricity whatever be the example given all that is futile but one experience of switching on a light to show the power of it answers it all. But then that light is not electricity but then it is essential for one to experience its power and helps us move to the higher plane of learning about the electricity but once we learnt more about electricity we then have to discard the original experience and come to know that it is much more. This is to do with nithay karma where we do pooja to deity and then we discard the experience once we have the higher plane of experience. ------------------------- KS: What you say is true but only for some. Others what you said might have been done already in their last life and now ready for the next. Only one knows where one is in these stages. Hence one should evaluate oneself only. --------------------- Ranga: Similarly the paths prescribed by the scriptures are essential for us to move up towards the experience of advaitha. I have read the discussions on Ramana Maharish and Sri Maha Parival of Kanchi. The main observation I make of what Kanchi Muni stood for has been his orthodox principle of the need to follow nithya karma by one and all as instructed to us in the scriptures. He also believed that the verses from Geetha where Lord Krishna extensively critics people who do not perceive the path of realization and only following the rituals as being misquoted. I think this was the basic for some of the so-called criticism by him on Ramana Maharish. ----------------- KS: Let us not get into discussion of who is right between two great souls, because the teaching is not universal and is relevant to particular individuals to whom they are addressing. Indiscriminate application to all and sometime out of context is injustice to the teachings. When the truth is beyond any path – all paths are only for purification. Purification depends on the impurites that need to be purified. One cannot give the same medicine to all diseases, the medicine depends on the patient. It is the same principle. Hence the importance of a Guru emphasized in our scriptures. ------------------------ I hope the comment made is relevant to the topic being discussed. Oh Sri Ganashya Namaha, Love to all Ranga Hari Om! Sadananda _______________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2001 Report Share Posted December 21, 2001 respected mr sadanand jee i fully agree with your comment that teachers give out their thoughts depending on the 'context' i am reminded of an interesting incident there were two students of a guru jee. one day A saw B doing japa and also smoking a cigaret at the same time. A was surprised and told B that he will comlain it to guru jee. B said 'guru jee has allowed me to do that' A said how that guru jee is partial. He allowed you to do japa and smoking together but refused permission to me on approching back guru jee, guru jee told A, "u asked me wether u can smoke when u are doing japa the answer is offcourse 'no' and B had asked wether he can do japa when he is smoking the answer is offcourse 'yes'" n k bali --- Kuntimaddi Sadananda <k_sadananda wrote: > Greetings and best wishes to all from India. > Sadananda > > Shree Ranga wrote: > Namaskars to all, > > Greetings and prayers for the New Year. > I have some thing to say reading some messages to > our learned > members, and some reactions. I am not sure how > relevant this will be > but then with lot of hesitation after posting my > last mail i am > sending in this mail. > ------------------ > Greetings to you too Shree Ranga and thanks for your > input. > ------------- > Ranga: Vadantha meaning the end of Vadas, as I have > heard people say comes > at the last stage of learning after we have learned > the basic vadas, > performed our daily rituals to purify our selves and > other things > which are essential for us to reach the state of > understanding and > experiencing the ultimate. Now from the mails I > receive I see that > some of us seems to be jumping the guns and directly > moving on to the > last stage and I want to asked the learned scholars > out here is this > the correct thing to do?. I also want to ask the > scholars that we had > followed in our ancient times the varnashra darma > and does that have > any relevance in the present times. > -------------- > KS: > According to Shankara it is not necessory that one > should do karma-s and > other rituals before one takes up Vedanta study. > What is essential is the > chitta sudhhi or purity of mind. And who are we to > evaluate the purity of > mind of others and how can we do that also – I mean > what norms are we going > to use to evaluate whether someone else has mind > pure enough to do > contemplation on the vedantic truths. What you said > is true – it requires a > purified mind – or four-fold qualifications for > vedanta to do its job. > > There are two factors invovled here. > 1. We cannot judge others whether they have the > necessory qualifications > that is needed – all we can do evaluate overselves > and indulge in the > appropriate sadhana to gain the required > qualification. What kind of > sadhana required - whether it is pure karma yoga or > rituals ordained by > karma khanda or others or bhakti yoga etc. depends > again on the individual. > 2. The second factor is even if one is not prepared, > the study of vedanta is > not a waste. It is like the connecting new bulb in > the place of dead bulb. > If the line is not live, the new bulb will not > glow. But if it is alive, > it will glow instantly. But on the other hand, if > he line is not live, one > can go back and turn the dimmer switch on and slow > turn to full potential – > that already connected bulb will now glow. > > Furthermore the study and discussion of vedanta > itself could be a sadhana > that purifies the mind and makes it free from > doubts. > ------------------- > Ranga: I also like to add a simple example for my > belief that stages are > essential in once learning of vadantha. When we > learn about > electricity whatever be the example given all that > is futile but one > experience of switching on a light to show the > power of it answers > it all. But then that light is not electricity but > then it is > essential for one to experience its power and helps > us move to the > higher plane of learning about the electricity but > once we learnt > more about electricity we then have to discard the > original > experience and come to know that it is much more. > This is to do with > nithay karma where we do pooja to deity and then we > discard the > experience once we have the higher plane of > experience. > ------------------------- > KS: What you say is true but only for some. Others > what you said might have > been done already in their last life and now ready > for the next. Only one > knows where one is in these stages. Hence one > should evaluate oneself only. > --------------------- > Ranga: Similarly the paths prescribed by the > scriptures are essential for us > to move up towards the experience of advaitha. > > I have read the discussions on Ramana Maharish and > Sri Maha Parival > of Kanchi. The main observation I make of what > Kanchi Muni stood for > has been his orthodox principle of the need to > follow nithya karma by > one and all as instructed to us in the scriptures. > He also believed > that the verses from Geetha where Lord Krishna > extensively critics > people who do not perceive the path of realization > and only following > the rituals as being misquoted. I think this was the > basic for some > of the so-called criticism by him on Ramana > Maharish. > ----------------- > > KS: Let us not get into discussion of who is right > between two great souls, > because the teaching is not universal and is > relevant to particular > individuals to whom they are addressing. > Indiscriminate application to all > and sometime out of context is injustice to the > teachings. > > When the truth is beyond any path – all paths are > only for purification. > Purification depends on the impurites that need to > be purified. One cannot > give the same medicine to all diseases, the medicine > depends on the patient. > It is the same principle. Hence the importance of > a Guru emphasized in > our scriptures. > ------------------------ > I hope the comment made is relevant to the topic > being discussed. > > Oh Sri Ganashya Namaha, > Love to all > Ranga > > Hari Om! > Sadananda > > > _______________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: > http://messenger.msn.com > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > > Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy > of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. > Advaitin List Archives available at: > http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > To Post a message send an email to : > advaitin > Messages Archived at: > advaitin/messages > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > ===== with best wishes, N.K.BALI Visit my site on ' Bhagavad Gita ', a spiritual delight.You will love it. http://in.geocities.com/gitabykrishna ______________________ For Stock Quotes, Finance News, Insurance, Tax Planners, Mutual Funds... 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Guest guest Posted December 21, 2001 Report Share Posted December 21, 2001 Hello NK bali, Thats an very interesting incident. We have to always consider in what situation a Guru has said something otherwise we might misunderstand his teachings. It also signifies the importance of a living guru to clear our doubts directly. om peroly advaitin, Narinder Bali <jaynkbali> wrote: > respected mr sadanand jee > > i fully agree with your comment that teachers give out > their thoughts depending on the 'context' > > i am reminded of an interesting incident > > there were two students of a guru jee. > > one day A saw B doing japa and also smoking a cigaret > at the same time. > A was surprised and told B that he will comlain it to > guru jee. > B said 'guru jee has allowed me to do that' > A said how that guru jee is partial. He allowed you > to do japa and smoking together but refused permission > to me > > on approching back guru jee, > > guru jee told A, > > "u asked me wether u can smoke when u are doing japa > the answer is offcourse 'no' > > and B had asked wether he can do japa when he is > smoking the answer is offcourse 'yes'" > > n k bali > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2001 Report Share Posted December 22, 2001 Thanks you Sir for the reply. I should say that there were some other articles I read which cleared more of my doubts and your comments supported it. I have some areas to add but beleve it could lead to an argument and I look at u as a learned scolver so will rest the matter here for now. Also I see that my comments could come more our of a reaction to what you said so will avoid the same as some how I tend to become reactive to some commets of your. Will try to change my self.( For I see my "I" coming up at every time !!!, and so will question when it is not the "I" which is in a dominent role, Sir it is really hard I should say. ) With love and respect, Ranga > ------------------------ > I hope the comment made is relevant to the topic being discussed. > > Oh Sri Ganashya Namaha, > Love to all > Ranga > > Hari Om! > Sadananda > > > _______________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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