Samadhi

[Guest guest]

Namaste. Please find below an answer given by Ramana Maharshi to a

Question put to him:

 

Q: What is the state of attainment of knowledge?

 

A: It is firm and effortless abidance in the Self in which

the mind which has become one with the Self does not

subsequently emerge again at any time. That is,

just as everyone usually and naturally has the idea,

'I am not a goat nor a cow nor any other animal but a man',

when he thinks of his body, so also when he has the idea

'I am not the principles (tatwas) beginning with the body

and ending with sound (nada), but the Self which is existence,

consciousness and bliss', the innate self-consciousness

(atmaprajna), he is said to have attained firm knowledge

 

Ramana Maharshi - from Spiritual Instruction ,

Chapter 4 - Attainment [Arudha]

 

If this was the state Ramana Maharshi was talking about and was

always in, then it is quite different from sleep or any other state

of Samadhi(Nirvikalpa or otherwise) into which one went and came out

without becoming any wiser for it. So all of us probably were like

Arjuna, doing 'Ashochyaan anvasochastwam Pranjaa Vaadaanscha

Bhashase'. Regards,

 

Venkat

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

Gita describes the condition in another verse as follows:

 

aashcharyavatpashyati kashchidenam.h

aashcharyavadvadati tathaiva chaanyaH .

aashcharyavach{}chainamanyaH shR^iNoti

shrutvaa.apyena.n veda na chaiva kashchit.h .. 2\.29..

 

2.29 Someone visualizes It as a wonder; and similarly indeed, someone

else talks of It as a wonder; and someone else hears of It as a

wonder. And some one else, indeed, does not realize It even after

hearing about It.

 

'This Self under discussion is inscrutable. Why should I blame you

alone regarding a thing that is a source of delusion to all!' How is

this Self inscrutable? [it may be argued that the Self is the object

of egoism. The answer is: Although the individualized Self is the

object of egoism, the absolute Self is not.] This is being answered

in, 'Someone visualizes It as a wonder,' etc.

 

kashchit, someone; pashyati, visualizes; enam, It, the Self;

ashcharyavat, as a wonder, as though It were a wonder-a wonder is

something not seen before, something strange, something seen all on a

sudden; what is comparable to that is ashcharya-vat; ca, and; tathaa,

similarly; eva, indeed; kashchit, someone; anyaH, else; vadati, talks

of It as a wonder. And someone else shruNoti, hears of It as a

wonder. And someone, indeed, na, does not; veda, realize It; api,

even; shrutva, after hearing, seeing and speaking about It.

 

Or, (the meaning is) he who sees the Self is like a wonder. He who

speaks of It and the who hears of It is indeed rare among many

thousands. Therefore, the idea is that the Self is difficult to

understand.

 

 

[shankara Bhashya - Tr. Sw. Gambhirananda]

 

Maharshi has also stated : "When the prarabdha is exhausted the ego

is completely dissolved without leaving any trace behind. This is

final liberation. Unless prarabdha is completely exhausted the ego

will be rising up in its PUR form eeven in jivanmuktas. ..."

[Talks - p. 244-5]

 

In the words of Sri Ramakrishna, 'some have heard of milk, some have

seen it, some have tasted it, and some have been nourished on it.'

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

 

 

 

advaitin, "svenkat52" <venkat52@s...> wrote:

then it is quite different from sleep or any other state

> of Samadhi(Nirvikalpa or otherwise) into which one went and came

out

> without becoming any wiser for it. So all of us probably were like

> Arjuna, doing 'Ashochyaan anvasochastwam Pranjaa Vaadaanscha

> Bhashase'. Regards,

>

[Guest guest]

Ramana Maharshi is here speaking of Sahaj Samadhi. We have had many

conversations on this list in the past about the difference between

Nirvikalpa and Sahaj Samadhi and they are in the archives.

 

Sri Ramana always emphasized Sahaj Samadhi over Kevala Nirvikalpa and

stated to Paul Brunton that it should be practiced from the beginning!

 

Nirvikalpa Samadhi reveals the Sahaj State and the Sahaj State

includes Nirvikalpa and Savikalpa and ordinary states, etc.

 

Sri Ramana's comments can be fully understood and appreciated by

those who actually practice His teachings and are familiar with such

Samadhi states from their own experiences. Sri Frankji and others

here are good examples of that.

 

The ultimate question always boils down to, "What is that *You* truly

know". There is absolutely no escape from this question.

 

One can quote scriptures and sages and others until the cows come

home but true satsifaction can only come from Self-Knowledge and not

from winning points in an imagined debate about Samadhis.

 

Love to all

Harsha

 

 

 

 

 

 

advaitin, "svenkat52" <venkat52@s...> wrote:

> Namaste. Please find below an answer given by Ramana Maharshi to a

> Question put to him:

>

> Q: What is the state of attainment of knowledge?

>

> A: It is firm and effortless abidance in the Self in which

> the mind which has become one with the Self does not

> subsequently emerge again at any time. That is,

> just as everyone usually and naturally has the idea,

> 'I am not a goat nor a cow nor any other animal but a man',

> when he thinks of his body, so also when he has the idea

> 'I am not the principles (tatwas) beginning with the body

> and ending with sound (nada), but the Self which is existence,

> consciousness and bliss', the innate self-consciousness

> (atmaprajna), he is said to have attained firm knowledge

>

> Ramana Maharshi - from Spiritual Instruction ,

> Chapter 4 - Attainment [Arudha]

>

> If this was the state Ramana Maharshi was talking about and was

> always in, then it is quite different from sleep or any other state

> of Samadhi(Nirvikalpa or otherwise) into which one went and came

out

> without becoming any wiser for it. So all of us probably were like

> Arjuna, doing 'Ashochyaan anvasochastwam Pranjaa Vaadaanscha

> Bhashase'. Regards,

>

> Venkat

[Guest guest]

If the ignorance of one self is the root cause of the problem then the

solution to the problem should involve the knowledge of oneself by oneself

through oneself. - aatmanyeva aatmanaa tushhTaH - says Krishna - one who

revels in himself by himself he is the sthitapraj~na. Any other states or

transitory states and those does not result in self-knowledge is natually

not the fundamental solutions to the problem.

 

Reveling in oneself is not antogonistic to revelling in any other since

everything that appears to be other than oneself is only apparent and not

real. In and through that apprarent lies only oneself - sarva bhuutastam

aatmaanam sarva bhuutaani ca aatmanni - the one who sees himself in all

being and all beings in himself is the one who is yogi - says Krishna.

 

That is the sahaja samaadhi - there is no savikalpa and nirvikalpa samaadhi

in that state only sama dhi - eqaunimity in all - Sthitapraj~na lakshaNa

emphasizes these aspects clearly. Bhagavaan Ramana, nisargadatta maharaj

and many others have provided living examples of that state right in this

century.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste Harshaji,

 

Thanks for administering the much needed rap on my knuckles in the most painless

way you could. Whatever made me take up the defence of my 'Mouna Guru' with

words, I can never explain. But the futility of the exercise is evident to me

now. And my 'Mouna Guru' through you has taught me an important lesson - Ego is

not just pride, even the feeling of hurt is Ego. When he said, annihilate the

Ego, why did I misunderstand that he meant only pride? Thanks once again and

regards,

 

Venkat

-

harshaimtm

advaitin

Sunday, December 23, 2001 10:17 AM

Re: Samadhi

 

 

Ramana Maharshi is here speaking of Sahaj Samadhi. We have had many

conversations on this list in the past about the difference between

Nirvikalpa and Sahaj Samadhi and they are in the archives.....

 

One can quote scriptures and sages and others until the cows come

home but true satsifaction can only come from Self-Knowledge and not

from winning points in an imagined debate about Samadhis.

 

Love to all

Harsha

> without becoming any wiser for it. So all of us probably were like

> Arjuna, doing 'Ashochyaan anvasochastwam Pranjaa Vaadaanscha

> Bhashase'. Regards,

>

> Venkat

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

dear friends

 

it is all same wether u revel in your 'Self' or in

Lord Krishna.

 

u may find it interesting to click here and then klick

on 'See God every where ----- ' near bottom of left

hand frame

 

http://in.geocities.com/gitabykrishna/index_sd.html

 

namaskar

nk bali

 

 

 

--- Kuntimaddi Sadananda <k_sadananda

wrote: >

> If the ignorance of one self is the root cause of

> the problem then the

> solution to the problem should involve the knowledge

> of oneself by oneself

> through oneself. - aatmanyeva aatmanaa tushhTaH -

> says Krishna - one who

> revels in himself by himself he is the

> sthitapraj~na. Any other states or

> transitory states and those does not result in

> self-knowledge is natually

> not the fundamental solutions to the problem.

>

> Reveling in oneself is not antogonistic to revelling

> in any other since

> everything that appears to be other than oneself is

> only apparent and not

> real. In and through that apprarent lies only

> oneself - sarva bhuutastam

> aatmaanam sarva bhuutaani ca aatmanni - the one who

> sees himself in all

> being and all beings in himself is the one who is

> yogi - says Krishna.

>

> That is the sahaja samaadhi - there is no savikalpa

> and nirvikalpa samaadhi

> in that state only sama dhi - eqaunimity in all -

> Sthitapraj~na lakshaNa

> emphasizes these aspects clearly. Bhagavaan Ramana,

> nisargadatta maharaj

> and many others have provided living examples of

> that state right in this

> century.

>

> Hari Om!

> Sadananda

>

>

>

>

>

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=====

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste.

In a discussion, we generally see two parallel streams

going on:

1) Discussion centered around a 'person' such as

Shankara, Ramana etc.

2) Discussion centered on a 'statement', such as

'Nirvikalpa S', 'Savikalpa S'..

 

Sometimes, me included, we mix up the two viewpoints.

Among the many advantages that #2 offers, we get an

opportunity to find a relation between two opposite

things and who knows, it may be the much needed clue !

Of course, #1 has its advantages too - the passion it

builds :-) to start off. #2 on its own sometimes is

dull. Both have their place.

> my 'Mouna Guru' through you has taught me an

> important lesson - Ego is not just pride, even the

> feeling of hurt is Ego. When he said, annihilate the

> Ego, why did I misunderstand that he meant only

> pride? Thanks once again and regards,

>

 

If I may add Sir, Ego may encompass more. If we see a

1-year old child smile/laugh as if giving a free show

of divinity to everyone, we should ask ourselves a

question, why we (adults) cannot do the same. Well,

here we see how much role Ego plays in an adult. I

only saw till now, Mahatma Gandhi's smile as good as a

child's. On this Christmas occassion, let me refer

everyone to the New Testament where Jesus refers to

children many many times.

 

Kind Regards,

Raghava

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste:

Please send your posts directly to advaitin

 

Thanks,

 

Ram Chandran

> "srikrishna_ghadiyaram"

> <srikrishna_ghadiyaram

> advaitin-owner

> Re: Samadhi

> Hari Om !!

>

> Ego does not mean either "Pride or lack of it"

>

> Ego is the thought of Essential I-ness and

> subsequent Myness. It is

> not to be used strictly in a derogatory sense. It

> just means

> individuality.

> Pride can be only one of the attributes or

> qualities or Ego;

> otherwise refer to those whom you think are

> "Prideless", should not

> they be ralised souls ? But the fact is they are

> not.

>

> Om Namo Narayanaya !!

>

> Srikrishna>

 

advaitin, Raghava Kaluri

> <raghavakaluri> wrote:

> > Namaste.

> > In a discussion, we generally see two parallel

> streams

> > going on:

> > 1) Discussion centered around a 'person' such as

> > Shankara, Ramana etc.

> > 2) Discussion centered on a 'statement', such as

> > 'Nirvikalpa S', 'Savikalpa S'..

> >

> > Sometimes, me included, we mix up the two

> viewpoints.

> > Among the many advantages that #2 offers, we get

> an

> > opportunity to find a relation between two

> opposite

> > things and who knows, it may be the much needed

> clue !

> > Of course, #1 has its advantages too - the passion

> it

> > builds :-) to start off. #2 on its own sometimes

> is

> > dull. Both have their place.

> >

> > > my 'Mouna Guru' through you has taught me an

> > > important lesson - Ego is not just pride, even

> the

> > > feeling of hurt is Ego. When he said, annihilate

> the

> > > Ego, why did I misunderstand that he meant only

> > > pride? Thanks once again and regards,

> > >

> >

> > If I may add Sir, Ego may encompass more. If we

> see a

> > 1-year old child smile/laugh as if giving a free

> show

> > of divinity to everyone, we should ask ourselves a

> > question, why we (adults) cannot do the same.

> Well,

> > here we see how much role Ego plays in an adult. I

> > only saw till now, Mahatma Gandhi's smile as good

> as a

> > child's. On this Christmas occassion, let me refer

> > everyone to the New Testament where Jesus refers

> to

> > children many many times.

> >

> > Kind Regards,

> > Ragha

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

> > Ego does not mean either "Pride or lack of it"

> >

> > Ego is the thought of Essential I-ness and

> > subsequent Myness. It is

> > not to be used strictly in a derogatory sense. It

> > just means

> > individuality.

> > Pride can be only one of the attributes or

> > qualities or Ego;

> > otherwise refer to those whom you think are

> > "Prideless", should not

> > they be ralised souls ? But the fact is they are

> > not.

> >

 

Namaste Srikrishna garu

Thanks for the clarifications.

Here we have more for further contemplation from Gita ch.13.

 

THIS BODY O! SON OF KUNTI, IS CALLED THE FIELD this mechanical

age, it is very easy to understand that there must be a 'field' for

energy to play in, and that, then alone it can manifest as work done

and serve man. Steam-energy cannot be resolved into locomotion unless

it is made to pass through a steam-engine. Electricity cannot give us

breeze unless it passes through the machine of a fan. The equipments

(or assembly of matter layers), through which Life passes when an

individuality is expressed, are defined here by Krishna as

the "Field."

 

HE WHO KNOWS IT, IS CALLED THE "KNOWER-OF-THE-FIELD" --- This field

is made up of lifeless matter, the minerals. And yet, as long as it

lives and functions, it KNOWS. This "principle-of-knowing,"

functioning in the "field" is the "enjoyer-of-the-field;"

the "knower," the EGO.

 

As long as life exists in any living organism, it expresses an urge

to know. The degree of this urge may vary from individual to

individual in the Universe. But the urge to know, expressed through

an equipment, is what we recognise as its life. The capacity of an

organism to receive stimuli and send forth responses is the

transaction of life, and when this "knower" --- the individuality,

has departed from the equipment, we consider it as dead. This is

the "Knower-of-the-Field" (Kshetrajna).

 

BY THOSE WHO KNOW OF THEM --- Here, Lord Krishna has assured his

listeners that the definitions given by him to the terms "body" and

the "knower-of-the-body" are not arbitrary declarations or

hypothetical suppositions, but are in keeping with the actual

experiences of all the great Masters of yore. In short, here we have

a definition of matter (Kshetra) and the Spirit functioning through

it (Kshetrajna). The entire world-of-objects constitutes the kingdom

of matter; and the vital knower of the world-of-matter, constituted

of the equipments and their array of perceptions, feelings and

thoughts, is the Spirit.

 

IS THIS ALL THE KNOWLEDGE THAT ONE HAS TO ACQUIRE ABOUT THEM? ---

NO, --- LISTEN:

 

-- More in the Advaitin files section - Gita Ch13, Chinmaya

 

Kind Regards,

Raghava

[Guest guest]

>Narinder Bali <jaynkbali

>dear friends

>

>it is all same wether u revel in your 'Self' or in

>Lord Krishna.

>

 

Shree Narinder

 

What you say is true. There is a difference as long as one sees oneself and

Krinsha. If one sees Krishna only and nothing but Krishna - oneself is

disloved at the alter of Krishna then they both are the same. Yo mam

pasyati sarvatra sarvan ca mayi pasiti - those who see me in everything and

sees evertything in me

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Harsha,

Perfectly put. Thanks.

Those who comment on the grades of greatness of Saints such as Ramana may be

bold enough to speak and lecture about others since it is lot harder to

speak about themselves!

Thanks once again.

-- Vis

-

"harshaimtm" <harsha-hkl

<advaitin>

Saturday, December 22, 2001 8:47 PM

Re: Samadhi

 

> One can quote scriptures and sages and others until the cows come

> home but true satsifaction can only come from Self-Knowledge and not

> from winning points in an imagined debate about Samadhis.

>

> Love to all

> Harsha