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Ah Orbitsville

 

I understand you very well. I agree with you that something, no matter how right

it sounds, doesn't really nourish you if you have to take it on someone else's

authority. It doesn't begin to nourish you til you see it for yourself and you

have it on your own authority.

 

Good luck, friend

 

Warwick

-

orbitsville

advaitin

Wednesday, February 13, 2002 8:39 AM

Re: Back and forth

 

 

All

 

I want to thank you all for being kind enough to respond to

my questions. I recognise several of your names, and compared

to (probably all!) of you I am like a child on his, perhaps

3rd or 4th day at school.

 

The thing is, I have read so much about all of this, and

feel that I do have a real sense of it, but I just don't

"get it". A little while ago, I just got fed up with it

and wanted to chuck the whole thing. I wanted to give up

on this paradoxical "bollocks" (pardon my language), and

go back to easy religion (the kind where I am guaranteed

Heaven after death, as long as I try and follow God's will

now and then...)

 

But I am afraid that this Advaita nonsense has me hooked :-)

I know there is something in it, and I am sure it is offensive

when an ignorant fool like me attempts to discard it with a

single word.

 

===========

orbitsville

 

 

 

 

 

Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman

and Brahman.

Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/

To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

 

 

 

Your use of is subject to

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Trouble is Orbitsville, is that perversely, everything based on ignorance and

the three gunas IS "bollocks". It's just God's dream, and we should pay it as

much attention as we pay our own dreams.

 

Trouble also is, that if you don't know that you're asleep, then dreams can be

pretty realistic. They only become illusory after one has woken up. Even someone

telling you in your dream, that it IS a dream, and that you will wake up,

doesn't really help. Only waking up really does it.

 

Trouble is that most of us wake up, after we've been asleep. Whereas most of us

rarely glimpse Turiya, that state equivalent to waking from our "normal"

awakeness.

 

Letting go is, as I said before, against our instincts...

 

 

Brian

 

 

 

 

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Hi Orbitsville!

 

Imagine a river of tumultous currents. You are

watching it standing on the banks. As long as you are

simply watching it, you are not affected, but, if you

decide to get into the waters and swim, then you are

subject to the vagaries of the currents. Advaita

teaches you how not to get affected even if you are

amidst the currents by telling you that your

legitimate right is only to perform with legitimate

desire, the actual result giver is the Lord

(Consciousness). When you live this knowledge you

accept whatever happens, desirable or undesirable, as

a blessing (the Sanskrit word is Prasada) from the

Lord. You also learn to accept what you can change

and what you cannot and appreciate the difference

between the two. Then, the actions that you perform

do not "bind" you any more.

 

The "realities" that surround you are your own

projections determined by your "binding" actions so

far. Performing actions in an "unbinding" manner

helps you exhaust your projections and ultimately

grants you freedom from the cycle of births and

deaths. Now don't ask me what that "state" (It cannot

be a state at all.) would be like! However, know that

that is what everyone is after.

 

Advaita has the best classification for creation. It

does not go into one hundred and odd categories like

Mendeleef (spelling?) did with his periodic table.

The world is simply grouped into two: (a) I, and (b)

the rest of the world. You look at (b) and try to

figure out the truth. It is an unending game and you

already intuitively know that you will never complete

it. You focus attention on (a), then (b) is no more

there. You realize that (b) exists because (a) is.

Now you shift the focus to (b) again. All the problems

rush in, the Osamas, Bushes, Euclid, Einstein,

galaxies, black holes, such profound and bothering

questions like what is the shape of this universe,

when, where and how it originated and, at the end,

madathilnair too. Know that this universe is very

much inside you. Don't worry, you will not be weighed

down, because then you are the whole universe and you

are not apart from it carrying the globe like poor

Atlas. You, therefore, include me and what I am

writing now too. Your actions ordered me,

Orbitsville, as it did Malcolm MacDowell and all the

stuff you have read and assimilated. I hope this

answers your doubt and you can get my point even

without the help of Malcolm MacDowell situation.

Now you decide whether your projections are deliberate

or spontaneous.

 

If you can be all this creation and move about

performing unbindingly, do you really have to worry

about that D-day when you will have exhausted your

projections? No, not at all. The answer to that

question has no time relevance. Better, therefore,

that it be not attempted from within the tyranny of

space and time!

 

 

Sorry, if you don't mind, your questions remind me of

a story. A guy happened to fall into a deep well.

The well had poisonous snakes, scorpions and what not.

He started yelling for help. To make his situation

worse, I will say the well had an anaconda too (after

a cerain movie that I watched recently). That

creature had already set its eyes on this unfortunate

guy and made up its mind on a very good breakfast.

Passers by heard the cries from the well and

immediately dropped a noose down into the well for

this guy to fasten it around him and be pulled up.

However, he refused to be rescued. The reason - he

would not come out unless he was told and convinced of

the reason why he was in the well at all!

 

Pranams.

 

Madathil Nair

 

--- orbitsville <orbitsville wrote:

 

 

I don't know if you have seen the

> film

> "Clockwork Orange", but there is a scene in there

> where

> Malcolm MacDowell is being forced to watch a film.

> He has

> no choice in observing, because his eyes are forced

> open.

> Is Consciousness like this? Assuming Consciousness

> also

> generates the film (to continue this analogy), does

> it do

> so with any purpose or plan in mind. Or is it

> generated

> purely spontaneously?

>

> Am I purely a passive observer of phenomenon? (and

> what will

> be will be ...)

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

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--- Madathil Nair <madathilnair wrote:

 

Namaste Madathil,

I was just passing by your dialogue and your image

reminds me of a Mullah Nasruddin story. You set this

image:

> Imagine a river of tumultous currents. You are

> watching it standing on the banks. As long as you

> are

> simply watching it, you are not affected, but, if

> you

> decide to get into the waters and swim, then you are

> subject to the vagaries of the currents. Advaita

> teaches you how not to get affected even if you are

> amidst the currents by telling you that your

> legitimate right is only to perform with legitimate

> desire, the actual result giver is the Lord

> (Consciousness). When you live this knowledge you

> accept whatever happens, desirable or undesirable,

> as

> a blessing (the Sanskrit word is Prasada) from the

> Lord. You also learn to accept what you can change

> and what you cannot and appreciate the difference

> between the two. Then, the actions that you perform

> do not "bind" you any more.

 

"Come quickly Nasruddin," cried the villagers," your

mother-in-law has fallen in the river."

The river was fierce after rains so Nasruddin rushed

up and dived in and started swimming upstream.

"NO!NO! Nasruddin," they all shouted, "the river is

flowing the other way."

"You don't know my mother-in-law," called back

Nasruddin.

 

Peace and happiness

Ken Knight

 

 

 

 

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--- orbitsville <orbitsville wrote:

". A little while ago, I just got fed up with

> it

> and wanted to chuck the whole thing. ),

> and

> go back to easy religion >

> But I am afraid that this Advaita nonsense has me

> hooked :-)

> I know there is something in it

-------------------

Actually,dear Orbitsville,'You know there is something

in it'. Yet,since you do not know 'what' is in it ,

it is worthwhile pursueing the subject to find out

that 'What' which is none other than, according to our

great gurus, 'You' in it!!!

 

Now, working out in the same strain about the

'jaanaami' that has been pointed out rightly in this

discussion earlier,we may ponder on the 'janaami' for

some time.

 

Now, when I say 'jaanaami',let us ask a simple

question: 'know' implies three things. the knower,

that which is known and the act of knowing.Where do

'I' stand in all these three ?

 

'I' am 'Kevala Dhruk',a WITNESS ,when the above

process seems to go on,and at all times, I am Sat Chit

Ananda i.e. Existance,knowledge,Bliss, which ,in

Advaitic parlance,is none other than 'BRAHMAN'.

 

Hari Om!

Swaminarayan.

 

 

 

 

 

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