The Dangers of Pseudo-advaita

[Guest guest]

Recently we had some discussion on New-Advaitins. While we were discussing

that topic, one of our list members has forwarded me the following article.

We dont know who wrote this, but I found it quite interesting hence sharing

it with you.

 

Yours,

Madhava

 

---

We would like to express our concern regarding the recent phenomenon of

'satsang-culture' which in our opinion has impoverished seriously the

Orignial Spirit of Advaita. These days many individuals, who have very

little or no knowledge at all about the Process of Awakening, feel qualified

to give satsang and lead other souls on the Path.

Enlightenment has become very cheep these days. Nobody actually really knows

what is the meaning of this term as it virtually means everything and

nothing. Nowadays, it is sufficient to say 'I am awakened' in order to give

satsang.

Because of the unverifiable nature of Enlightenment, this term has been much

manipulated. Satsang has been Americanised. In an average satsang-gathering

everybody is laughing, showing signs of euphoric and unauthentic joy, while

the teacher tries to look like

he or she is in a bliss. Just like a TV show. Very few actually meditate.

Why to meditate if we are already all awakened?

But Is this really Advaita? Is Advaita a poor repetition of a several

slogans like 'There is nobody there,' 'You are That,' You are already

awakened' or 'There is no Path', etc.? Has this anything to do with teaching

of great masters like N. Maharaj or R. Maharishi?

 

Ramana sat in caves for 20 years before he could be really complete. In his

presence disciples had to meditate for months and years before they could

receive from him the glimpse of the Self.

It is true that New Millennium is a time of global awakening. But this

awakening is mostly partial and relative to the level of most people's

unconsciousness. It was Jesus who said that there would be a time when many

false teachers will teach in the name of Light. It seems to be happening

now. Many of these teachers are not necessarily 'bad people' but simply

unqualified and lost, in truth. They have believed too quickly in the

thought 'I am now ready to teach!'

 

It seems that the pauperisation of satsang culture began after the death of

Poonjaji. Many of his followers started to claim that Poonjaji approved

their awakening.' It seems that they just took him too literally. It is an

Advaita custom to say 'you are already awakened.' This is however more a

teaching device than a reflection of reality. And even if some of his

disciples had a glimpse of awakening, Poonjaji knew very well that in most

cases neither it was permanent nor the final state.

An example was Andrew Cohen who was sent to give satsang in the west. He was

meant to represent Poonjaji and attract more westerners to Lucknow. But he

and others thought that Poonjaji actually conformed his Enlightenment. For

that reason, Cohen became very hurt when Poonjaji started to criticize him

when he began to act as a master. From this wound came later the magazine

'What is Enlightenment?' which more represents Cohen's own insecurity and an

unsuccessful attempt to heal himself than a genuine search for clarity. By

the endless investigation into states of all possible masters, and not being

able

to come to any true conclusion, he has been just confusing his students. The

only thing which at the end remains clear from his seemingly 'sincere'

efforts to find clarity is that nobody has the least idea 'What

Enlightenment Is!'

It is not our intention to suggest that nobody reaches

Enlightenment. We just wish to make it clear that Complete Enlightenment and

Understanding of its nature is still an extremely rare phenomenon on the

planet earth, which a plane of low evolution. And equally important, we wish

to emphasize that a

partial or pre-mature experience of awakening does not qualify one at all to

take a role of a Self-realised being.

Enlightenment is not as cheep. Many seekers seem to be unaware of a very

simple fact that there are actually many levels of Self-realisation. There

is an enormous difference between initial awakening and the actual State of

Enlightenment. But who cares?

 

Most seekers would not bother to study these matters, for in their case

there is really 'nobody there' - just a collective seeker's mind.

And most teachers would refuse to enquire into the true nature of

Enlightenment because they already have a hidden doubt and deep fear

concerning the validity of their own attainment.

We would like to suggest not to rush too fast with announcing oneself

'awakened,' and to rush even less with the idea of giving satsang. In Zen

tradition one had to wait 10 to 20 years after Enlightenment before one

could guide others. These days we hear about individuals who give satsang

the next day after their

uncertain awakening!

 

We would like to clarify, for the sake of general knowledge, that there are

actually several levels of expansion beyond the mind.

There are three basic types of Inner Expansion:

1) Awakening to Pure Awareness (the State of Presence behind the mind).

2) Awakening to the Absolute State (unity with the unmanifested).

3) Awakening of the Heart (expansion into the Divine).

> In each of these levels there are three stages: Shift into a state,

Stabilisation and Integration. For instance, many satsang-teachers do not

experience the same state outside of teaching. This is because they are not

established permanently in the state they

have attained. For that reason, they can have a deep state during satasng,

but when they leave the satsang-room, they return back to ordinary

consciousness. In such a case only conscious

cultivation of the particular state can allow one to establish it

permanently. However, if one does not believe in actual process of

awakening, how can one consciously cultivate anything? One does not even

know that one is in a State. Here we see the importance of correct

understanding. If one just follows in a dogmatic and unimaginative way the

Advaita idea that 'I am already That,' how can one cultivate anything?

We recommend to all students and teachers of Advaita to be more critical.

Follow Advaita, if you wish but know that Reality is simply much more rich

than any linear philosophy, with Advaita included.

The Practical Advaita and the Theoretical Advaita are very different. In the

Theoretical Advaita, the Self is the only reality, there is no Path and we

are all already awakened. But Practical Advaita knows that there is a long

way to go before the truth of these statements can become our living truth.

We would like also to create a few practical anti-pseudo-advaita statements:

'You are not awakened unless you awaken!' 'You are not That, unless you

reach unity with Universal I AM!' 'There is no Path but only for those who

Completed it!' 'There is nobody here, but only when somebody has dissolved!

Until that time you are simply a suffering somebody who only tries to

believe in being no one or entertains oneself by giving 'satsang.'

We have request to all those who experience any type of awakening:

PLEASE, THINK TWICE BEFORE YOU DECIDE TO GIVESATSANG and HONESTLY

COMTEMPLATE WHAT ARE YOUR TRUE MOTIVES BEHIND THE DESIRE TO TEACH.

Perhaps giving Satsang is not really necessary?

 

Blessings to Seekers of Truth and Clarity who have the courage to renounce

the False.

 

 

--

Madhava K Turumella

IT Manager

FORSA gmbH

Max-Beer-Str.2

10119 Berlin

Germany

Telephone: +49-30-628 82-433 (Office)

Telephone: +49-1-7254-72-0-72 (Mobile)

Telefax: +49-30-628 82 444

email: madhava

http://www.forsa.com

[Guest guest]

>Recently we had some discussion on New-Advaitins. While we were discussing

>that topic, one of our list members has forwarded me the following article.

>We dont know who wrote this, but I found it quite interesting hence sharing

>it with you.

>

>Yours,

>Madhava

>

 

Some time back Shree Anand Hudli has written some articles warning

about the Neo Adviatins in the Advaita L list. I have great respect

for Anand for his erudition and scholarship and would welcome him to

address the issue for the benefit of all in the advaitin list if and

when he finds time.

 

Hari OM!

Sadananda

--

K. Sadananda

Code 6323

Naval Research Laboratory

Washington D.C. 20375

Voice (202)767-2117

Fax:(202)767-2623

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

namaste.

 

Let me be a devil's advocate here for a few minutes, at least

to put a contrary viewpoint. I am not a follower of what is

called neo-advaita or pseudo-advaita. I follow upanishads

and I follow shri shankara's bhAShyA-s. I do not have a

*living* teacher who is a shrotriya and a brahma-niShTa

or one acknowledged as a brahmajnAni, but there are not

that many in this world who can claim to have such a teacher.

One reason I am saying this is to establish first that

I am not a neo-advaitin in the classical understanding

of that word. However, I find the belittling of this

"pseudo-advaitin or neo-advaitin" contrary to what advaita

stands for.

 

<devil's advocacy on>

 

Firstly, the fact that satsang is being conducted by these

'neo-advaitins' is itself a step in the right direction.

At least, they were not sitting in front of TV or drinking

beer in a bar. Whether what they were doing is the exact

right step or not is a different matter. They were serious

enough to join what they perceive to be a satsang. They

will recognize what they were doing is not exactly the right

direction, also find that what they were doing is not going

to uplift them spiritually, they will abandon that path and

do a more serious Self-analysis. We have seen many members

on our List itself who got disillusioned by those procedures

and are doing a more serious shravaNa, manana, nidhidhyAsana.

 

Secondly, I want the List also to look at the other extreme

in this advaita spectrum, those who consider themselves to

be purists of advaita, the strict temple-worshippers, the

dogmatic and obstinate people at the other end of the spectrum,

who interpret the vedA-s literally and fail to change the thinking

of what advaita is from rebirth to rebirth. These are the people

who believe in doing action to attain jnAna. These people will

classify everyone outside themselves as a pseudo-advaitin.

I wonder how that view of advaita more superior to this

neo-advaita.

 

Thus any criticism of the so-called neo-advaita need also to

include a criticism at the other end of the spectrum.

 

<devil's advocacy off>

 

 

I see some good part in what is called neo-advaita. Here is a

group of people who have felt genuinely that there is something

beyond and outside the materialist view of the world. They are

trying to understand what it is. They may be led in the wrong

direction by a few so-called guru-s. But they will recognize

the dead-end of that particular route and they will get in the

right direction. After all, Self-realization, what I is, is

not a one-life deal. People have to go through many, many,

many lives before that realization sets in.

 

My two cents.

 

Regards

Gummuluru Murthy

--

[Guest guest]

It's pretty good!

 

It's by "Aziz," and appeared on a few lists about a year ago. It's on a few

websites now, including:

 

http://www.alltheweb.com/go/1/H/web/http/www.nonduality.com/hl889.htm

 

and

 

http://www.alltheweb.com/go/4/H/web/http/www.connection-medien.de/magazin/sat_ko\

m.htm

 

Thanks Madhava-ji!

 

--Greg

 

At 02:42 PM 3/4/02 +0100, Madhava K. Turumella wrote:

>>>>

Recently we had some discussion on New-Advaitins. While we were discussing

that topic, one of our list members has forwarded me the following article.

We dont know who wrote this, but I found it quite interesting hence sharing

it with you.

 

Yours,

Madhava

<<<<

[Guest guest]

Nomoshkar,

Who is this Aziz? and what are his credentials to

give a treatise on Advaita philosophy. Why should we

give publicize this as a carte blanche?

Indeed there are many intellectuals among all these

Azizs and Mostafas, but do we need to take their

opinions as if they are the very nectar. Sorry for

being a little rude - I am a member for a few months

only. I am also thankful to all members who have been

sympathetic to our cause in Bangladesh.

I request you to send nice compilations such as

"oditya hridoya", "normadashtaka" etc. instead of

commentaries by Azizs on Advaita. Infact it is a open

fact that very few people can stand the waves of

Advaita and no wonder islam shudders at the thought.

regards,

malti

 

A Note from Advaitin List Moderators:

=====================================

Namaste Malti:

 

Honestly, we shouldn't jump into conclusion on the religion of a person by

looking at the name. Also there is clear distinction between 'Advaita described

at the scope of this list' and 'pseudo-advaita.' The stated points in that

article need careful evaluation for our understanding and as information for the

general membership. We wish you peace in Bangladesh,

 

Warmest regards,

 

Advaitin List Moderators

 

 

 

--- Gregory Goode <goode wrote: > It's

pretty good!

>

> It's by "Aziz," and appeared on a few lists about a

> year ago. It's on a few websites now, including:

>

>

http://www.alltheweb.com/go/1/H/web/http/www.nonduality.com/hl889.htm

>

>

> At 02:42 PM 3/4/02 +0100, Madhava K. Turumella

> wrote:

> >>>>

> Recently we had some discussion on New-Advaitins.

> While we were discussing

> that topic, one of our list members has forwarded me

> the following article.

[Guest guest]

I tend to agree with Murthygaru on this issue. I just want members to recall

'svalpamasya dharmasya trAyate mahato bhayAt'

B.G. II-40 2nd line.

Meaning, Even a little of this dharma can protect one from a very great danger

(downfall).

Though it was said in a different context, traditional expositors use it to

justify Gummuluru Murthy's point of view regarding neo-advaitins.

Regards to all advaitins,

profvk

You can access my 'Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and Practice'

from my Science and Spirituality Website:

www.geocities.com/profvk

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

advaitin, Gummuluru Murthy <gmurthy@m...> wrote:

Namaste,

 

Before my departure from the , I coined a

phrase 'Verbal non dualists', or vndists. These are the pseudo

advaitins who talk about non duality and that's all they do. A lot do

no meditation, sadhana or anything just talk non dually. A lot of

them have the lucknow disease where they never use the word I...It is

the natural result of transposing this philosophy into the western

universities, where it is regarded as just that and not a

revelation...They seem incapable of realising that the mind itself is

the problem.The furthest the more aware of them get to is perhaps the

concept of saguna brahman, but nirguna is beyond them, as it involves

in negating the mind...ONS...Tony.

[Guest guest]

I tend to agree with Murthygaru on this issue. I just want members to recall

'svalpamasya dharmasya trAyate mahato bhayAt'

B.G. II-40 2nd line.

Meaning, Even a little of this dharma can protect one from a very great danger

(downfall).

Though it was said in a different context, traditional expositors use it to

justify Gummuluru Murthy's point of view regarding neo-advaitins.

Regards to all advaitins,

profvk

You can access my 'Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and Practice'

from my Science and Spirituality Website:

www.geocities.com/profvk

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste all!

 

I am with Shri Gummuluru Murthy and Shri Gregory Goode and would like

to break a few idols with the following thoughts:

 

(1) First of all, we have to decide whether we are talking about neo-

advaita or pseudo-advaita. The terms "neo" and "pseudo" are realms

apart.

 

(2) Who are we or the writer of the article under discussion to sit

in judgment? What are our/his qualifications for that? Are we self-

appointed? Are we sthothriyas and brahmanishtas?

 

(3) In India, particularly in Kerala where I hail from, I find many

people giving advaitic discourses on the Bhagwat Geetha and other

Upanishads. They include persons whom I personally know and of

doubtful advaitic scholarship or background (No offence meant). They

also include people who claim to have had "awakening" overnight and

consider themselves fit to guide the world. Most of them are good

speakers and have the capacity to enthrall their audience spellbound

with their verbose eloquence and habitual witticisms. In fact, the

latter quality is the essential prerequisite for success in this

field! Crowds flock to their lectures, particularly during

auspicious occasions and festivals. What are these people? Are we to

call them "neo" and/or "pseudo"?

 

(4) If yes, then "neo" or "pseudo" is not an American or western

phenomenon. It has its roots in our great Bharat and it began long,

long back and probably existed even in Sankara's period. If that is

the case, it is not "neo" any more.

 

(5) We see interpretations and interpretations for important

advaitic texts. The Bhagwath Geetha perhaps tops the list. How many

of these interpretations are "pseudo" and how many are

wholly "original"?

 

(6) Similarly, there are paths and paths (margas). Some avow

logically that there are only two paths prescribed in the Geetha –

sanyaasa and karma yoga. Others are blamed for imparting the wrong

information that there are different paths like bhakthi, jnana,

tantra and what not. This is no occasion to go into the merit of

such arguments. However, the very fact that such varying points of

view have been in existence among our scholars only proves that

advaitic principles have always been subject to difference of

opinion. Even, Bhagwan Ramana Maharshi who expressed the Truth in the

simplest possible language ever has been sadly misinterpreted. Then,

is there a need to consider Sankara's case?

 

(7) A renowned advaitic scholar, for whom I have great respect, once

stated that there is nothing wrong in unqualified persons giving

discourses as long as they didn't claim "gurudom" (status of a guru)

and that everyone should have an opportunity to express and share

his/her thoughts with others. This would mean that, as long as

satsangs are held with an intention to express and share, it is

harmless.

 

(8)Isn't our advaitin group an electronic satsang itself? Are we not

expressing and sharing regardless of our "advaitic qualifications"?

I find that even messages that have nothing to do with advaita are

also shared through this forum. Why should we, therefore, single out

the American satsangis? Let them gather, discuss and enjoy whatever

they think is "bliss". If that keeps them away from bars and drugs,

well, that is more than enough. If they have the grace, this

initiation, regardless of whether it is "pseudo" or "original", will

definitely take them one step closer to the right message. The Lord

indeed has a grand scheme for every being!

 

(9) And, ultimately, what are we trying to protect? The advaitic

knowledge? Who granted us this guardianship? "That knowledge

knowing which all the other "knowledges" are as well known" will

always remain shining forth . It has survived invasions - armed and

cultural, military occupations, hatred, and torching of libraries

across the world. No one, therefore, needs to delude oneself that

one is duty-bound to protect it. The best "protection" that we can

give it is sharing it with others. Aren't the "pseudos" doing this

already?

 

(10) Now to come to the contents of the article itself, the author

feels that the "original spirit of advaita" has been impoverished.

They ought to define this original spirit in order for us to

understand their exact position in the current advaitic spectrum.

 

(11) The article gives an impression that advaitic awakening is time-

bound and that there are stages or degrees of awakening. Can the

author cite any "original advaitic" support for their conclusions?

And, is "awakening" a state at all!?

 

(12) Jesus, of course, warned of false teachers. But, that species

used to exist even before Christ and would be there even after

the "last qualified teacher" (if there is anything like that) arrives

and departs. They are perennial. They are anaadi like our avidya and

adhyaasa! The world has to live with them necessarily.

 

(13) Does the concern expressed relate to Zen also? Is a menace

of "pseudo-Zen" included in the article and is the author fighting

that too?

 

(14) There are three levels of expansion listed for the sake of

general knowledge. It reads like thermodynamics. Where is advaita in

all that? The author ought to clarify where he picked that stuff

from.

 

(15) And again, we find that advaita has been classified like physics

and chemistry into theoretical and practical. Is that not pseudo-

advaita or, at least, "neo-advaita"?

 

(16) It is a tragedy that the article ends in "anti-pseudo-advaita

statements". It has committed the same mistake of mouthing slogans

for which the "pseudos" have been criticized in the beginning of the

article.

 

(17) The interrogative conclusion "Perhaps giving Satsang is not

really necessary?" is the only truth that stands out in the article.

An awakened one has no need to communicate because he is silence.

Why words when there is no separation to bridge? So, Satsang is only

for "pseudos". Right?

 

To conclude, who am I to say all this? Not a sthothriya. Not a

brahmanishta. Another "pseudo"? Probably, yes. Then, let

the "pseudos" live. Leave them alone, boy. Most of us belong to

that category struggling en route, sharing, expressing, criticizing

and, above all, enjoying through this forum. This is awakening!

Isn't this? Let us keep it till the one with capital "A" strikes us

down further down the route.

 

Pranams.

 

Madathil Nair

 

_________________________________

 

advaitin, Gregory Goode <goode@D...> wrote:

> Hi Gummuluru,

>

> I agree wholeheartedly with your devil's advocate view of what

pseudo-advaita is doing. It actually is doing those things! There

is definite good in it! Most of my friends in New York are from this

endeavor. Through the satsang movement, many people are seeing a

path to self-improvement, and are adopting a less physicalistic

attitude towards life. Many people are experiencing a kind of joy

that gives them encouragement and incentive to carry on. And many

have gone on to explore other things in life -- a more traditional

path, or hatha yoga, a better diet, various kinds of therapies, or

even going outside to enjoy a walk in the park!

>

> Om!

>

> --Greg

[Guest guest]

--- Gregory Goode <goode wrote:

 

 

Namaste all,

>From a movement in mind, an impulse, arises a flash of

understanding that appears new and fresh. What is a

characteristic feeling of this impulse? It is to share

the understanding, freely, enthusiastically. If we

find a beautiful place or hear some wonderful music we

initially want to share it. There may...almost

certainly will........ later come a claim that 'This

is mine, my experience' and all sorts of

superimpositions come rushing in.

How does this relate to the thread?

Stripping away the divisive additional prefixes to

advaita, returning to original texts, could this

impulse originate in 'The One desired to be many'?

This creative urge manifests as diversity in unity

and the need to share an insight with anyone who will

listen is an echo of the original impulse.

Does this impulse manifest in anyone without training?

It depends how far we go back...lifetimes maybe...to

find the training, but on my hard disk there are

hundreds of accounts of spiritual experiences of

light, waves of love and inner and outer unity etc.

These experiences appear to occur spontaneously in

many people.

The diverse nature of people results in many

interpretations of the experience related to previous

knowledge; rarely does the experience bring about an

utter transformation so that a completely new teaching

results.

I cannot comment on the validity of the teachers being

mentioned in the thread as I have not heard them and,

if I had, any judgment could only be my own opinion.

I have suggested above that I suspect that the

original impulse is valid regardless of the final form

that it takes.

As a personal preference I turn to scripture rather

than hearing teachers.

True knowledge is freely given to us in a moment of

revelation. If there is any seeking of financial

reward or ego-tripping then this will harm the

messenger but not the message which will find another

conduit, of that we can be sure. Truth is ever free,

in all meanings of that word, and knowing this allows

discrimination to come to our aid as we hear of these

teachers.

That comment is not to condemn the production of

wealth ( a powerful attractive personality of money),

artha, for the service of all. There is a Biblical

phrase often repeated, 'By their fruits ye shall know

them.'

This has rambled a bit but maybe it is a contribution,

 

Om sri ram

Ken Knight

 

 

 

 

Try FREE Mail - the world's greatest free email!

/

[Guest guest]

Hi Gummuluru,

 

I agree wholeheartedly with your devil's advocate view of what pseudo-advaita is

doing. It actually is doing those things! There is definite good in it! Most

of my friends in New York are from this endeavor. Through the satsang movement,

many people are seeing a path to self-improvement, and are adopting a less

physicalistic attitude towards life. Many people are experiencing a kind of joy

that gives them encouragement and incentive to carry on. And many have gone on

to explore other things in life -- a more traditional path, or hatha yoga, a

better diet, various kinds of therapies, or even going outside to enjoy a walk

in the park!

 

Om!

 

--Greg

 

At 04:05 PM 3/4/02 -0330, Gummuluru Murthy wrote:

>>>>

 

namaste.

 

Let me be a devil's advocate here for a few minutes, at least

to put a contrary viewpoint. I am not a follower of what is

called neo-advaita or pseudo-advaita. I follow upanishads

and I follow shri shankara's bhAShyA-s. I do not have a

*living* teacher who is a shrotriya and a brahma-niShTa

or one acknowledged as a brahmajnAni, but there are not

that many in this world who can claim to have such a teacher.

One reason I am saying this is to establish first that

I am not a neo-advaitin in the classical understanding

of that word. However, I find the belittling of this

"pseudo-advaitin or neo-advaitin" contrary to what advaita

stands for.

 

<devil's advocacy on>

 

Firstly, the fact that satsang is being conducted by these

'neo-advaitins' is itself a step in the right direction.

At least, they were not sitting in front of TV or drinking

beer in a bar. Whether what they were doing is the exact

right step or not is a different matter. They were serious

enough to join what they perceive to be a satsang. They

will recognize what they were doing is not exactly the right

direction, also find that what they were doing is not going

to uplift them spiritually, they will abandon that path and

do a more serious Self-analysis. We have seen many members

on our List itself who got disillusioned by those procedures

and are doing a more serious shravaNa, manana, nidhidhyAsana.

 

Secondly, I want the List also to look at the other extreme

in this advaita spectrum, those who consider themselves to

be purists of advaita, the strict temple-worshippers, the

dogmatic and obstinate people at the other end of the spectrum,

who interpret the vedA-s literally and fail to change the thinking

of what advaita is from rebirth to rebirth. These are the people

who believe in doing action to attain jnAna. These people will

classify everyone outside themselves as a pseudo-advaitin.

I wonder how that view of advaita more superior to this

neo-advaita.

 

Thus any criticism of the so-called neo-advaita need also to

include a criticism at the other end of the spectrum.

 

<devil's advocacy off>

 

 

I see some good part in what is called neo-advaita. Here is a

group of people who have felt genuinely that there is something

beyond and outside the materialist view of the world. They are

trying to understand what it is. They may be led in the wrong

direction by a few so-called guru-s. But they will recognize

the dead-end of that particular route and they will get in the

right direction. After all, Self-realization, what I is, is

not a one-life deal. People have to go through many, many,

many lives before that realization sets in.

 

My two cents.

 

Regards

Gummuluru Murthy

--

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Thank you for this interesting article, Sri Madhava. I have forwarded

it to other mailing lists because I find it worth be read as it

illustrates this phenomena very properly - even if I don't agree in

every statement.

Gabriele

 

advaitin, "Madhava K. Turumella" <madhava@f...> wrote:

> Recently we had some discussion on New-Advaitins. While we were

discussing

> that topic, one of our list members has forwarded me the following

article.

> We dont know who wrote this, but I found it quite interesting hence

sharing

> it with you.

>

> Yours,

> Madhava

>

> ---

> > Telephone: +49-30-628 82-433 (Office)

> Telephone: +49-1-7254-72-0-72 (Mobile)

> Telefax: +49-30-628 82 444

> email: madhava@f...

> http://www.forsa.com

[Guest guest]

Namaste;

 

I do agree with Murthygaru, the spirit of his argument that some good

is better than nothing. Whether it is advaita or neo-advaita, the

understanding and propogation needs to be done with some restraint.

Whenever arrogance takes control, dharma leaves from the memory and

the result becomes unpredictable. The purpose of any Satsangh

(including this Email forum) should be for facilitating understanding.

But if the name of Satsangh is used for brain-washing, adharma will

prevail and even a little o such can bring more dangers!

 

regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

advaitin, "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk> wrote:

> I tend to agree with Murthygaru on this issue. I just want members

to recall

> 'svalpamasya dharmasya trAyate mahato bhayAt'

> B.G. II-40 2nd line.

> Meaning, Even a little of this dharma can protect one from a very

great danger (downfall).

[Guest guest]

I think Ram has brought the most import aspect that involves improper

teaching. Neo Vedantins are not a recent phenomenon but existed at

any time and our seers have recognized the problem. Hence they

insisted in having a teacher with sampradaaya with guru-parampara -

exactly to overcome the harm that can be done with self-established

gurudoms!

 

Teaching of JK is one typical example -He was against teachers and

did not want to be one. Yet people gathered to listen to 'his

teaching' and there are many who claim discipleship to JK.

 

We have some DMK leaders in Tamil Nadu who denounced Temple and idol

worship - as product of Brahmanism - yet now we can see their idols

all over the state being garlanded and worshipped!

 

It is important to recognize that a proper teacher is one who directs

his disciple not to himself as an authority but to scriptures. This

is to eliminate the subjectivity that can creep in the teaching.

Even the Upanishad teachers as well KrishNa in B.G. emphasizes this

fact - What I have taught is not new - this is what my teacher taught

who was taught by his teacher. This is one of the reason why

scripture becomes a undisputable pramaaNa. Undoubtedly there is a

faith that is involved here, but faith word of the scripture is much

more reliable than an temporal being. A proper teacher interprets

the scriptures logically to his disciple. Hence Shankara defines

shraddha as -

shaastrasya guruvaakyasya satya budhuuavadhaaraNa - saa shraddha - A

strond conviction that the scripture and the teacher (in that order)

are telling the facts.

 

Of course, there are always half-baked Vedantins who understands the

letter and not the spirit of the teaching - and that we find all the

time and everywhere. These things happen when we fail to use our

intellect.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

--

K. Sadananda

Code 6323

Naval Research Laboratory

Washington D.C. 20375

Voice (202)767-2117

Fax:(202)767-2623

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "K. Sadananda" <sada@a...> wrote:

> I think Ram has brought the most import aspect that involves

improper

> teaching. Neo Vedantins are not a recent phenomenon but existed at

> any time and our seers have recognized the problem. Hence they

> insisted in having a teacher with sampradaaya with guru-parampara -

> exactly to overcome the harm that can be done with self-established

> gurudoms!

>

> Teaching of JK is one typical example -He was against teachers and

> did not want to be one. Yet people gathered to listen to 'his

> teaching' and there are many who claim discipleship to JK.

>

> We have some DMK leaders in Tamil Nadu who denounced Temple and

idol

> worship - as product of Brahmanism - yet now we can see their idols

> all over the state being garlanded and worshipped!

 

Namaste All, IMO,

 

It is all relative to the level of spiritual awareness in the

vijnanamayakosa. Is it not better to observe the impulse, good or bad

than to attempt to act it out? Some will become verbal non dualists

from the impulse others may move to worship of a saguna aspect.

Others may note the truth of their illusory endless minds, and

attempt to make some progress to the Self manifesting...Having said

that being a vndist is probably better than being a total

materialist....ONS...Tony.

[Guest guest]

I just saw Sadananda's note to me. I had posted an article based

on a talk by HH Abhinava Vidya Teertha on pseudo-advaitins.

 

advaitin/message/5477

 

Basically, I think Shankara's texts make it clear that one who

aspires to realize Nonduality should have certain qualifications -

viveka - discrimination between the eternal and noneternal,

vairAgya - dispassion, shamAdi guNas - the wealth of six virtues

starting with shama (tranquility), and mumuxatva - desire for

liberation. Please see the vivekachUDAmaNi for more explanation.

 

One could turn into a psuedo-advaitin if he/she claims to be an

advaitin or that he/she is studying advaita, without having the above

four-fold qualifications. As Shankara says in the VivekachUDAmaNi,

in such people, there may be an appearance of such qualities but it

is only an apparent appearance, not real.

 

Anand