Initiative of an Advaitin

[Guest guest]

Namaste Madhavaji,

 

There is a danger in using this stanza ALONE and

explaining it as a need to work for society. For so

long as we have not truly experienced Advaita, we are

not Advaitins. For an Advaitin, He has no rule as to

what He must do. He Moves as He Wills.

 

For the rest of us, unless a person has the strength

to guide the masses, it is not wise to try to do so.

Sri Ramakrishna has explained "First tie the knowledge

of non-duality in a portion of your cloth and then do

what you want in the world".

Do we have the strength to face blow after blow and

still do what we feel is right?

If so then act to guide the masses.

Otherwise, we still need to feel THE PRESENCE, for

that is source of strength.

My understanding is to first seek the will of the

supreme, Seek Krishna in your own heart. If He tells

the same Shloka to you as He did to Arjuna, then

follow it. Otherwise it is best to keep Seeking and

avoid the masses.

Please correct me if my understanding is wrong.

 

Regards,

Anand

 

>

> "IF YOU HAVE A DOUBT AS REGARDS THE NECESSITY FOR

> WORKING FOR THE PROTECTION

> OF THE MASSES, WHY DO YOU NOT OBSERVE ME? WHY DO YOU

> NOT FOLLOW MY EXAMPLE,

> AND TRY TO PREVENT THE MASSES FROM GOING ASTRAY,

> SETTING UP FOR THEM AN

> EXAMPLE IN YOURSELF?"

>

> 22 There is nothing in the three worlds, O Partha,

> that has to be done by

> Me, nor is there anything unattained that should be

> attained by Me; yet, I

> engage Myself in action.

>

>

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

I look it this way:

 

One cannot but function in the society as long as one is in the

society getting benefits from the society. It is important to do

ones dharmic duties - essentially paying back three R^iNa-s or three

obligations to the best one can - of course with the attitude of

surrender - or in the spirit of karma yoga. The three obligations

are 1) one to the Gods 2) one to the teacher and 3) one to one the

fore-fathers. Gods are givers - that is whatever we got from the

society - and we have to give it back to the society in whatever

capacity we are capable of giving. One can give from strength not

from weakness. Second one give freely what he has learned from his

teacher to those who seek knowledge. This is law of nature and third

is the one is standing on the platform built by our own ancestors.

We should pass on 1) the family values to the next generation and

also pass on the traditions and culture to the next generation. We

are fortunate we are born in a society with so much knowledge

preserved by our fore-fathers for the generations to come and it is

our duty to study and pass it on to the next generation. That I

consider is the real pitR^i R^iNa not just propagating the lineage.

 

If we do the service to the society in the spirit of yagna as Krishan

discussed in the IIIrd chapter then we fulfill our obligations -

nitya nimittika karma-s are part of these. Of course when one has

realized anything he does will be only for the benefit of the society.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

 

>Namaste Madhavaji,

>

> There is a danger in using this stanza ALONE and

>explaining it as a need to work for society. For so

>long as we have not truly experienced Advaita, we are

>not Advaitins. For an Advaitin, He has no rule as to

>what He must do. He Moves as He Wills.

>

>

>Regards,

> Anand

>

--

K. Sadananda

Code 6323

Naval Research Laboratory

Washington D.C. 20375

Voice (202)767-2117

Fax:(202)767-2623

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "K. Sadananda" <sada@a...> wrote:

> I look it this way:

>

> One cannot but function in the society as long as one is in the

> society getting benefits from the society. It is important to do

> ones dharmic duties - essentially paying back three R^iNa-s or ]

 

Namaste,

 

Who benefits from society and Who is in society?....ONS.....Tony/

[Guest guest]

My Beloved Self;

 

Are you the doer?

 

Are you a human being?

 

Bhagavan Ramana:

 

When there is one great force looking after all the world, why should

we bother what we shall do?

 

 

Ramesh Balsekar:

 

The fact of the matter is:

it is His Will which has always prevailed;

it is His Will which is now prevailing;

and it is His Will which will prevail in the future.

That is a fact.

The longer it takes one to accept that fact,

the longer will one suffer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There cannot be any volition.

God cannot let two billion people have volition

and still run this universe with any kind of precision!

 

 

 

once agian I ask you:

 

ARE YOU THE DOER?

 

Love baba janaardana kalianandaswami garu

[Guest guest]

Namaste all,

 

 

Yes, this seems to me to be the only wise attitude.

 

Every condition, every action, from the viewpoint of Consciousness is both holy

and necessary.

>From the viewpoint of the so-called person, there are many flaws in the way the

world is operating and it is the responsibility of the every right-thinking

person to set the world to rights. But that is only from the viewpoint of the

"person".

 

I remember Francis Lucille talking about how it is from the viewpoint of

Consciousness.

 

Francis: It is our choice, our will and our sovereign power, as Consciousness,

to identify with the limited "I" concept and then to give birth to the drama.

Like a playwright writing a drama identifies with the hero or the bad guy and

then creates the whole drama.

Questioner: So how can Consciousness, in its pristine clarity, make the mistake

of identifying with any ego?

Francis: Because it wants to! There is this desire to play the game, to explore

all the possibilities. There is joy in choosing the ego! It is done out of a

childlike playfulness. And we can see that - it is the reason why we cherish

this pseudo-personality, this game. And when we are tired of it we go out of it.

But as long as we like it there is no way. If someone comes here who loves the

game of being a person he won't listen to one single word of what is being said

because this desire to keep the game alive will erect a wall around him, to

protect the lie.

 

We know, when we play cops and robbers, that we are not a cop or a robber;

that's a fundamental lie, right? We know that?

 

Questioner: "Ye-e-es, but that's a lie in the sense of....willing suspension of

disbelief."

 

Francis: "Yes! Exactly! And if another kid comes and says, "What are you doing?

You think you are cops and robbers? You're just kids, like me!" You'd say,

"Well, this guy is a party pooper!"

 

But I suppose Consciousness sometimes, often in fact, chooses to play the role

of world saviour. Or even national or neighbourhood saviour.

 

And what a drama!

 

Love

Warwick

 

-

baba108

advaitin

Thursday, March 07, 2002 1:29 PM

Re: Initiative of an Advaitin

 

 

My Beloved Self;

 

Are you the doer?

 

Are you a human being?

 

Bhagavan Ramana:

 

When there is one great force looking after all the world, why should

we bother what we shall do?

 

 

Ramesh Balsekar:

 

The fact of the matter is:

it is His Will which has always prevailed;

it is His Will which is now prevailing;

and it is His Will which will prevail in the future.

That is a fact.

The longer it takes one to accept that fact,

the longer will one suffer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There cannot be any volition.

God cannot let two billion people have volition

and still run this universe with any kind of precision!

 

 

 

once agian I ask you:

 

ARE YOU THE DOER?

 

Love baba janaardana kalianandaswami garu

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman

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[Guest guest]

Namaste everybody!

 

I can appreciate the ultimate meaning of baba108's quote below.

However, will somebody enlighten me in this context about how we can

reconcile it with the following logic of Sankara?

 

"Karthum Sakyam, Akarthum Sakyam, Anyathava Karthum Sakyam."

(Can do, can avoiding doing, can do differently.)

 

The reactions that our actions create are results. If the Lord is

the result-giver, then the reactions generated by our actions are

fully controlled by Him. Since "reactions" themselves are actions in

relation to the performer of those "reactions", how can that

performer have the freedom to do, avoid doing or doing differently?

 

E.g. I hit somebody. That guy hits me back. That hitting back is an

action. It is also a reaction to or result of my hitting him. If

the Lord is in control of the result, then the person hit by me has

no freedom with regard to his reaction. But, in our experience, that

is not the case. The person, as pointed out by Sankara, can hit me

back (in a more severe manner doubtlessly), avoid hitting me and even

show the other cheek following the footsteps of Christ and Gandhiji,

or reserve his option to give me a completely different treatment

some time in future, thus keeping me eternally worried.

 

So, do we have to assume that the freedom of action indicated by

Sankara is only apparent or seeming and has no validity in ultimate

analysis, thus leaving the Lord fully in control as quoted by Baba108?

 

Pranams.

 

Madathilnair

_____________________________

 

In advaitin, "baba108" <baba108@h...> wrote:

> There cannot be any volition.

> God cannot let two billion people have volition

> and still run this universe with any kind of precision!

[Guest guest]

>advaitin, "K. Sadananda" <sada@a...> wrote:

>> I look it this way:

>>

>> One cannot but function in the society as long as one is in the

>> society getting benefits from the society. It is important to do

>> ones dharmic duties - essentially paying back three R^iNa-s or ]

>

>Namaste,

>

>Who benefits from society and Who is in society?....ONS.....Tony/

 

Tony - definitely it includes the one who is in this adviatin list

reading all the mails and responding to it as well as the one who is

asking this question and the one who is answering the question.

 

One should not get confused with the vyavahaara and paramaarthika.

The question is asked at the vyavahaara level and answer only

pertains at that level only. At the paramaarthika level there is

neither questioner nor an answerere and the question you posed also

dissloves along with that.

 

We should be carefull of advaitic state versus discussion of the goal

as advaita. It is adviata meaning non-dual and that involves

negation of dviata or duality. It is not monoism. Sadhana and

practice is essential for a sadhak who feels he is separate from the

world. The question is raised by one who feels there is socity out

there and the answer is also given at that level.

 

As long as this is correctly understood, the communication is with

the right spirit. Otherwise the purpose of this list itslef will be

futile.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

--

K. Sadananda

Code 6323

Naval Research Laboratory

Washington D.C. 20375

Voice (202)767-2117

Fax:(202)767-2623

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> We are fortunate we are born in a society with so

much

> knowledge

> preserved by our fore-fathers for the generations to

> come and it is

> our duty to study and pass it on to the next

> generation. That I

> consider is the real pitR^i R^iNa not just

> propagating the lineage.

>

> If we do the service to the society in the spirit of

> yagna as Krishan

> discussed in the IIIrd chapter then we fulfill our

> obligations -

> nitya nimittika karma-s are part of these. Of

> course when one has

> realized anything he does will be only for the

> benefit of the society.

 

HariH Om,

 

Even these things are preformed by us because they are

forced on us by the Supreme. Sri Krishna asks Arjuna

to fight. However he sends His other great Devotee,

Uddhava to Badarikashrama in the Himalayas to

meditate. Why? Because that was His Will.

If duty is thrust on us, we perform it as an offering

to the Supereme in the spirit of Karma Yoga.

However if duties such as teaching, service to society

are not thrust on us, then why not first seek the

Supreme in your heart to understand what His will is?

One may want to teach, but may not be a teacher. One

may want to serve, but may not possess the humility to

do it.

 

Regards,

Anand

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

namaste.

 

On the point of how/why an advaitin interferes in the worldly

matters.

 

We may speculate, sitting on the edge, whether the intervention

is appropriate or not. The advaitin [the self-realized advaitin

intervenor] only knows for sure the how and why of such an

initiative. He would be doing it for the jagatkalyANam, welfare

of the society. The interested parties may accuse the advaitin

of acting in interest of one group or other. The bystanders,

out of respect to the intervening advaitin, may term the

interested parties' criticisms objectionable. But the real

advaitin is above the praise, above the criticism and above

any third-party comments on the wisdom of the intervention.

 

In the present context, I am pleasantly surprised at the

intervention of the seer. My heartfelt congratulations to Him

for this intervention and I do hope some good will come out

of this. I would assume the AcArya will neither be stung by

the criticism nor elated by the praise. The objective is

jagatkalyANam. I think there are examples where such

interventions have produced fruit.

 

 

Regards

Gummuluru Murthy

-