Guest guest Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 Dear Madathilnairji: Thanks for your thoughts. I am headed out of town for spring break and we can engage in discussion on this topic later on. I will check my mail on the web if possible. Warm wishes Love to all Harsha madathilnair [madathilnair] Thursday, March 07, 2002 12:32 AM advaitin Re: Self-Realization and Memory Dear Hashaji, Pranams. With great respect to you, may I mention the following thoughts? Isn't memory the lighting up of Consciousness? The thing remembered becomes the object of perception and, at that point in time, the "rememberer" is not aware of anything else. In a nutshell, he becomes the object remembered. Besides, there is no volition involved with it. It is not to my asking that I remember something. Further, we often find that we cannot remember memorized information when we deliberately labour to retrieve it. We need the torchlight bearer to direct the beam in the right direction. Complete identification with the principle that lights up everything, including the contents of memory, which is Me, is then a logical definition for samaadhi. It can be for a split second, which happens to everyone without their knowledge, or for a longer duration. Of course, time cannot have any relevance to the person in samaadhi as the awareness of time is also not then lighted up. In other words, there is no difference between a "samaadhi second" or "samadhi year" from the viewpoint of the person in samaadhi. Memory being "things remembered", like mind is the "thoughts that occur", then, logically, there cannot be any memory too in samaadhi, irrespective of whether it is sahaja or nirvikalpa (whatever they are). I have not "experienced" either. However, I have experienced sleep. And that experience is a memory too! (Praagaswapsamithi prabodhasamaye yah prathiabhijnayathe) From my first-hand information, therefore, I can say that there is no memory or things remembered in the remembered experience of sleep! Do we have to labour beyond that? Let people say amnesia is self-realization. Does that matter to people who wish to retain their logic? They will labour and find out for themselves. And, when they find out, they will conclude (sadly?!) that there is no need or means to communicate about it? Am I right, Harshaji? Kindly correct and forgive me if I am wrong. Pranams and regards. Madathil Nair ____________________________ advaitin, "Harsha" wrote: > Memory and Self-Realization > In many circles, the absence of memory is considered equivalent to > Self-Realization. We see that claim made by neo-nondualists in different > variations. Absence of memory, in fact, can occur in many states. > People get drunk and become quite forgetful of who they are and cannot > remember things. Just because drinking alcohol on a long term basis > undermines the memory, it need not be viewed as a path to Self- Realization. > Absence of memory, or even undermining of memory as a construct through > logic (logic, which necessarily relies on memory as an assumption) is not > Self-Realization. > Some people also lose memory due to accidents, illness, or disease. It can > lead to much suffering. We do not refer to that as Self-Realization. > Memory can temporarily disappear in either sleep or Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Even > though memory is absent, the two states are not considered equivalent as in > one, unconsciousness pervades, and in the other, there is fullness of pure > consciousness. In only one type of absence of memory (Nirvikalpa Samadhi) > can it be said that the Self has been Revealed or Recognized. > In Sahaj Samadhi, the question of memory existing or not existing is > completely moot. > While the absence of memory may be correlated with Alzheimer's, it has > little to do with Self-Realization. > Love to all > Harsha <http://rd./M=215002.1818248.3328688.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17050759 91:HM/A=847665/R=0/*http://ads.x10.com/?bHlhaG9vbW9uc3RlcjcuZGF0=1015479324% 3eM=215002.1818248.3328688.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705075991:HM/A=847665/R=1> Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ To Post a message send an email to : advaitin Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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