Guest guest Posted March 11, 2002 Report Share Posted March 11, 2002 Namaste all, I will paste below some verses from Chapter 14 of Tripura Rahasya. I only have an English version and want to know the Sanskrit word being translated as 'dense'. Can anyone help please!!! Either: 1. From Tripura Rahasya text itself. 2. From a similar concept in some other text. 3. From your own guesswork. 51. "The universe is, always and all-through, a phenomenon in the Self. The question then arises how consciousness, being void, is dense at the same time. 52. "Just as a mirror, though, dense and impenetrable, contains the image, so also pure consciousness is dense and impenetrable and yet displays the universe by virtue of its self-sufficiency. 53. "Though consciousness is all-pervading, dense and single, it still holds the mobile and immobile creation within it, wonderful in its variety, with no immediate or ultimate cause for it. 54-55. "Just as the mirror remains unaffected by the passage of different images and yet continues to reflect as clearly as before, so also the one consciousness illumines the waking and dream states which can be verified by proper meditation. 56. "O King! Examine again your day-dreams and mental imagery. Though they are perfect in detail, yet they are no less mental. 57. "Consciousness permeating them obviously remains unblemished before creation or after dissolution of the world; even during the existence of the world, it remains unaffected as the mirror by the images. 58. "Though unperturbed, unblemished, thick, dense and single the absolute consciousness being self-sufficient manifests within itself what looks 'exterior', just like a mirror reflecting space as external to itself. 59-60. "This is the first step in creation; it is called ignorance or darkness; starting as an infinitesimal fraction of the whole, it manifests as though external to its origin, and is a property of the ego-sense. The alienation is on account of the latent tendencies to be manifested later. Because of its non-identity with the original consciousness, it is now simple, insentient energy." Note. - The commentary has it: What is absolute consciousness goes under the name of Maya just before creation, and is later called Avidya (or ignorance) with the manifestation of the ego. The agitation in the quietness is due to subtle time fructifying the latent tendencies of the ego which had not merged in the primordial state at the time of the dissolution of the Universe. ....................... If you have any comment to make upon the use of the word 'dense' in this context I would welcome your insights, Many thanks Ken Knight Try FREE Mail - the world's greatest free email! / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2002 Report Share Posted March 11, 2002 Namaste! I don't have a copy of Tripura Rahasya right with me. Getting a copy is not within my means in my present circumstances. However, if I can depend on memory and if I have the grace Mother Tripurasundari, may I venture to remember/guesss that the word you are after is "ghana" or "ghaneebhootha", the former meaning "dense" and the latter "condensed"? Madahtil Nair Madathil Nair advaitin, ken knight <hilken_98@Y...> wrote: > > Namaste all, > I will paste below some verses from Chapter 14 of > Tripura Rahasya. I only have an English version and > want to know the Sanskrit word being translated as > 'dense'. Can anyone help please!!! > Either: > 1. From Tripura Rahasya text itself. > 2. From a similar concept in some other text. > 3. From your own guesswork. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2002 Report Share Posted March 11, 2002 | 3. From your own guesswork. Three gunas... Sattva - Rajas - Tamas Light - Motion - Mass Conservation of energy means that nothing can be destroyed, only change it's form (Transformational Causation). Mathematical relationship between Sattva, Rajas and Tamas: e=mC^2 Excellent discussion of this can be found at http://quanta-gaia.org/dobson/EquationsOfMaya.html | 51. "The universe is, always and all-through, a | phenomenon in the Self. The question then arises how | consciousness, being void, is dense at the same time. And thanks, Ken for bringing out (probably again) Tripura Rahasya. I wasn't aware of it. There is an on-line copy (in English only) of it at http://www.vinnica.ua/~sss/tripura1.htm Regards Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2002 Report Share Posted March 11, 2002 --- Brian Milnes <b.milnes wrote: Dear Brian, Thanks for the Dobson site. I had a quick look and will come back to it later as it brings in several of my odd strands of interest. I am sure that you will find the Tripura Rahasya to be a gem. The on-line version is the same as my hard copy that I got from Ramanashram. It is built around that wonderful Indian way of teaching using the 'Russian Doll' approach of story within story and then giving some very direct teaching. I was using it recently on this site when having a look at chitta with Swaminarayan. Work well Ken Try FREE Mail - the world's greatest free email! / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2002 Report Share Posted March 11, 2002 --- madathilnair <madathilnair wrote: > Namaste! > > I don't have a copy of Tripura Rahasya right with > me. Getting a copy > is not within my means in my present circumstances. > However, if I > can depend on memory and if I have the grace Mother > Tripurasundari, > may I venture to remember/guesss that the word you > are after > is "ghana" or "ghaneebhootha", the former meaning > "dense" and the > latter "condensed"? Namaste Madathil, Thank you for this. First sight of dictionary gives some interesting leads. Jacobs also gives a couple of refs: Maitri 7,1, Mukti. 2.62. I will have a look at these this evening. Interesting to note that it has the dhattu han. I can look forward to an evening's study and will come back on this. My first thoughts were that consciousness is 'dense' because it is everywhere therefore cannot be penetrated but there maybe much more to it than that. Om sri ram ken Knight Try FREE Mail - the world's greatest free email! / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2002 Report Share Posted March 17, 2002 I am quoting below the 4th stanza of Prof. Krishnamoorthy's reverred father's work "Drishti-srishti" along with the Professor's English translation of it. It is in today's mail. QUOTE 4. sphuTaM vaktyeva tadrUpaM vareNyaM teja uttamaM / JAnAnandaghanaM nityaM vyApakaM svetarAsahaM // That Infinite Glory of His pervades everything as dense Consciousness and thus speaks volumes of the non-existence of anything else other than the Self. UNQUOTE Here again Consciousness is described as dense and the Sanskrit word used is "ghanam". Thought this may be of interest to you. You (also me) may also like to clarify with the Professor as to why the adjective "dense" is used when the subject of discussion is "vyapakam" (all-pervading). I am sure, as I anticipated before, Mother Thripurasundari is showering her grace on us through Prof. Krishnamoorthy. Aum Sreemath Thripurasundaryai Namaha! Madathilnair ______________________ advaitin, ken knight <hilken_98@Y...> wrote: > > --- madathilnair <madathilnair> wrote: > > Namaste! > > > > I don't have a copy of Tripura Rahasya right with > > me. Getting a copy > > is not within my means in my present circumstances. > > However, if I > > can depend on memory and if I have the grace Mother > > Tripurasundari, > > may I venture to remember/guesss that the word you > > are after > > is "ghana" or "ghaneebhootha", the former meaning > > "dense" and the > > latter "condensed"? > > > Namaste Madathil, > Thank you for this. First sight of dictionary gives > some interesting leads. Jacobs also gives a couple of > refs: Maitri 7,1, Mukti. 2.62. > > I will have a look at these this evening. Interesting > to note that it has the dhattu han. I can look > forward to an evening's study and will come back on > this. My first thoughts were that consciousness is > 'dense' because it is everywhere therefore cannot be > penetrated but there maybe much more to it than that. > > > Om sri ram > > > ken Knight > > > > Try FREE Mail - the world's greatest free email! > / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2002 Report Share Posted March 18, 2002 Dear Sir, I am not a scholar, but here is my 2cents: Consciousness when pervades, if we(jiva) say that it pervades, then we only say from the standpoint of non-existence as dense-Consciousness that we are comfortable with ? I don't know. Regards, Raghava --- madathilnair <madathilnair wrote: > I am quoting below the 4th stanza of Prof. > Krishnamoorthy's reverred > father's work "Drishti-srishti" along with the > Professor's English > translation of it. It is in today's mail. > > QUOTE > > 4. sphuTaM vaktyeva tadrUpaM vareNyaM teja uttamaM / > JAnAnandaghanaM > nityaM vyApakaM svetarAsahaM // > > That Infinite Glory of His pervades everything as > dense Consciousness > and thus speaks volumes of the non-existence of > anything else other > than the Self. > > UNQUOTE > > Here again Consciousness is described as dense and > the Sanskrit word > used is "ghanam". Thought this may be of interest > to you. You (also > me) may also like to clarify with the Professor as > to why the > adjective "dense" is used when the subject of > discussion > is "vyapakam" (all-pervading). I am sure, as I > anticipated before, > Mother Thripurasundari is showering her grace on us > through Prof. > Krishnamoorthy. > Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2002 Report Share Posted March 18, 2002 madathilnair [madathilnair] Monday, March 18, 2002 1:50 AM advaitin Re: Dense? I am quoting below the 4th stanza of Prof. Krishnamoorthy's reverred father's work "Drishti-srishti" along with the Professor's English translation of it. It is in today's mail. QUOTE 4. sphuTaM vaktyeva tadrUpaM vareNyaM teja uttamaM / JAnAnandaghanaM nityaM vyApakaM svetarAsahaM // That Infinite Glory of His pervades everything as dense Consciousness and thus speaks volumes of the non-existence of anything else other than the Self. UNQUOTE Here again Consciousness is described as dense and the Sanskrit word used is "ghanam". Thought this may be of interest to you. You (also me) may also like to clarify with the Professor as to why the adjective "dense" is used when the subject of discussion is "vyapakam" (all-pervading). I am sure, as I anticipated before, Mother Thripurasundari is showering her grace on us through Prof. Krishnamoorthy. Aum Sreemath Thripurasundaryai Namaha! Madathilnair ______________________ Dense means that which has no holes, not even small microscopic ones. Self is one monolithic Whole. One without a second. The same sameness everywhere. Love to all Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2002 Report Share Posted March 18, 2002 --- madathilnair <madathilnair wrote: > > 4. sphuTaM vaktyeva tadrUpaM vareNyaM teja uttamaM / > JAnAnandaghanaM > nityaM vyApakaM svetarAsahaM // > > That Infinite Glory of His pervades everything as > dense Consciousness > and thus speaks volumes of the non-existence of > anything else other > than the Self. > > UNQUOTE > > Here again Consciousness is described as dense and > the Sanskrit word > used is "ghanam". Thought this may be of interest > to you. You (also > me) may also like to clarify with the Professor as > to why the > adjective "dense" is used when the subject of > discussion > is "vyapakam" (all-pervading). I am sure, as I > anticipated before, > Mother Thripurasundari is showering her grace on us > through Prof. > Krishnamoorthy. Namaste, There does indeed seem to be some guidance going on here. A number of different threads seem to be coming together to eradicate the coarseness and to refine some old 'knowledge' that I had wanted to put out into the light. Even a weekend discussion on some verses of the Svetasvatara Upanishad came to join in the churning. Harsha has joined us with his own insight on 'dense' and although I agree with his underlying understanding of the nature of consciousness being illustrated, I still feel that 'dense' does not do 'ghanam' justice when we look at vyapakam. 'Dense' implies a compact of matter whereas 'all-pervading' and 'impenetrable' transcend matter. I cannot think of an appropriate English word. I am reminded of some verses from the Bhagavad Gita that presented me with a paradox and some study a few years ago. 9.4 'All this universe is pervaded by Me in My unmanifested form; all beings exist in Me, but I do not abide in them.' This makes complete sense in relation to 'all-pervading'. 9.5 'Nor do beings dwell in Me, behold My divine yoga! Bringing forth and supporting the beings, My Self does not dwell in them.' 9.6 'As the mighty wind moving everywhere ever rests in the AkAsha, know you that so do all beings rest in Me.' My original question was on the word matsthAni being differently translated in the three verses and upon the obvious contradiction which is heightened when we look at: 9.29 'I am the same to all beings; to Me there is none hateful, none dear. But those who worship Me with devotion, they are in Me and I am in them.' I approached this with a word by word parsing and learned much but maybe it is coming back now to have removed a few stale ideas. At that time of study Shankara's commentary was very useful. Thank you for diecting me to Professor Krishnamurthy's work as I had filed it for later study. Om sri ram Ken Knight Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2002 Report Share Posted March 18, 2002 ken knight [hilken_98] Monday, March 18, 2002 10:27 AM advaitin Re: Re: Dense? Namaste, There does indeed seem to be some guidance going on here. A number of different threads seem to be coming together to eradicate the coarseness and to refine some old 'knowledge' that I had wanted to put out into the light. Even a weekend discussion on some verses of the Svetasvatara Upanishad came to join in the churning. Harsha has joined us with his own insight on 'dense' and although I agree with his underlying understanding of the nature of consciousness being illustrated, I still feel that 'dense' does not do 'ghanam' justice when we look at vyapakam. 'Dense' implies a compact of matter whereas 'all-pervading' and 'impenetrable' transcend matter. I cannot think of an appropriate English word. ********************************* Dear Kenji, I am off to work and will comment briefly. You may be right about there not being an appropriate English word. I am not sure. Here is another way to think about it in relative terms. All pervading by its nature must be Absolutely Dense, it seems to me. There could be no holes in it. Perhaps the physics experts can give their opinion. Self is sometimes referred to as dense mass of bliss. Sat-Chit-Ananda. Eternal, Whole, All pervading. It has to be kept in mind that all such terms as even "All Pervading" and "Dense" are in the mental realm. Thanks for the great article Ken for the HS Magazine. I love your writing! Love to all Harsha .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2002 Report Share Posted March 18, 2002 Hi Ken! May I address you so? I am in a mood now. Your post has triggered me. Have you ever been attentive? I mean when you do something, have you ever been attentive to details? Have you really got into details? Have you ever been the thing that you are doing? Then, have you experienced that something, that lighting up, that thrill (I don't have a proper word for it), that condenseed happiness on your solar plexus, on your mooladhara, or on any other chakra for that matter, that condensed bliss? That is dense. And that is It. When you are aware of It, there is nothing outside or other than It. We don't have to go after etymology. We don't have to pour over dictionaries. It is ever there. It has always been there. We never noticed It because we were busy being other than ourselves. That is the problem. I hope you are getting me. Then the purpose of this post is served. May I again say Aum Thripurasundaryai Namaha, for She is my deity and I have nobody else to call out to!? Thank you for this thrill. I have nothing more to say. I abide in Her, Ken. So long then. Madathilnair _________________ advaitin, ken knight <hilken_98@Y...> wrote: > > --- madathilnair <madathilnair> wrote: > > > > 4. sphuTaM vaktyeva tadrUpaM vareNyaM teja uttamaM / > > JAnAnandaghanaM > > nityaM vyApakaM svetarAsahaM // > > > > That Infinite Glory of His pervades everything as > > dense Consciousness > > and thus speaks volumes of the non-existence of > > anything else other > > than the Self. > > > > UNQUOTE > > > > Here again Consciousness is described as dense and > > the Sanskrit word > > used is "ghanam". Thought this may be of interest > > to you. You (also > > me) may also like to clarify with the Professor as > > to why the > > adjective "dense" is used when the subject of > > discussion > > is "vyapakam" (all-pervading). I am sure, as I > > anticipated before, > > Mother Thripurasundari is showering her grace on us > > through Prof. > > Krishnamoorthy. > > Namaste, > > There does indeed seem to be some guidance going on > here. A number of different threads seem to be coming > together to eradicate the coarseness and to refine > some old 'knowledge' that I had wanted to put out into > the light. > Even a weekend discussion on some verses of the > Svetasvatara Upanishad came to join in the churning. > Harsha has joined us with his own insight on 'dense' > and although I agree with his underlying understanding > of the nature of consciousness being illustrated, I > still feel that 'dense' does not do 'ghanam' justice > when we look at vyapakam. 'Dense' implies a compact of > matter whereas 'all-pervading' and 'impenetrable' > transcend matter. I cannot think of an appropriate > English word. > I am reminded of some verses from the Bhagavad Gita > that presented me with a paradox and some study a few > years ago. > 9.4 > 'All this universe is pervaded by Me in My > unmanifested form; all beings exist in Me, but I do > not abide in them.' > This makes complete sense in relation to > 'all-pervading'. > 9.5 > 'Nor do beings dwell in Me, behold My divine yoga! > Bringing forth and supporting the beings, My Self does > not dwell in them.' > 9.6 > 'As the mighty wind moving everywhere ever rests in > the AkAsha, know you that so do all beings rest in > Me.' > > My original question was on the word matsthAni being > differently translated in the three verses and upon > the obvious contradiction which is heightened when we > look at: > 9.29 > 'I am the same to all beings; to Me there is none > hateful, none dear. But those who worship Me with > devotion, they are in Me and I am in them.' > > I approached this with a word by word parsing and > learned much but maybe it is coming back now to have > removed a few stale ideas. At that time of study > Shankara's commentary was very useful. > > Thank you for diecting me to Professor Krishnamurthy's > work as I had filed it for later study. > > Om sri ram > > Ken Knight > > > > > Sports - live college hoops coverage > http://sports./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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