Guest guest Posted March 12, 2002 Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 ============================================================= This article is emailed to you by Ram Chandran ( rchandran ) ============================================================= Source: The Hindu (http://www.hinduonnet.com/2002/03/13/stories/2002031300640800.htm) Miscellaneous - Religion The Self, source of lasting joy CHENNAI MARCH 13. One of the subjects dealt with in the scriptural texts is the nature of the Self-realised person because the ultimate objective of these works is to enable a spiritual aspirant to be liberated from worldly bondage. For a person who is progressing on the spiritual path such descriptions help him in his endeavour by making him emulate those traits. In the Bhagavad Gita, for instance, Lord Krishna dilated on this topic when Arjuna asked Him, "What are the signs of a person who has attained steady wisdom and deep introspection? How does he speak? How does he sit? How does he walk?" The Lord replied that a person of steady wisdom could be recognised when all desires have been abandoned and he finds joyous satisfaction in the Self without being dependent on any external factor. The sage is one whose mind remains unperturbed amid sorrows, whose thirst for pleasures has altogether disappeared and who is free from passion, fear and anger. In his discourse Sri K.Srinivasan said Adi Sankara had elaborated on the marks of a Self-realised person in his work Satasloki extensively. It is out of compassion for those engaged in worldly life that saints have indicated the ensnaring nature of material pleasures. There is no limit to desires and to fulfil them, man wastes his entire life without realising that the Self (Atman) is the source of lasting joy. Why does a liberated man continue to live in the world? For this it is essential to understand how Karma operates. Scriptures say that there are three types of Karma those actions in stock which have not yet started giving result, that which have started giving result in this life and those which a person will accumulate in future by his actions in this life. Karma that has started giving result is not destroyed by Self-knowledge as it is similar to an arrow that has been discharged and hence has to spend its force. Occasionally when the good deeds (Punya) of s! uch a person are aplenty, he is born again as a saint to exhaust them. Such births are distinct as can be seen in the case of Sage Suka and the child-devotee Dhruva. The Bhagavata Purana relates that when his father Krishna Dwaipanya (Veda Vyasa) called out to his son Suka when he saw him going away, the trees around answered him instead. From the worldly point of view such births are necessary for the good of the world. Copyright: 1995 - 2002 The Hindu Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the consent of The Hindu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2002 Report Share Posted March 13, 2002 In a message dated 3/13/02 7:53:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, rumbolo writes: > must disagree with your statement, "For a person who is progressing on the > spiritual path such descriptions help him in his endeavor by making him > emulate those traits." The description in the Gita, verses 2-55 through 2- > 58, help the already established intellects verify their experiences. It > has been the mistake down through the ages that the description of the > goal, > i.e. description of enlightenment, has become the practice of the > followers. > Forcing oneself to live these experiences is an exercise in futility. > Transcend by whatever means you wish and the goal will come naturally. > > Joel > Yes, and this mistake down through the ages, swapping the description to become the practice, is not inherent in the Sanskrit statements directly, but rather to long term forgetfulness modified by translations that are flavored according to habituated world views surrounding the translator at particular times. It's quite a subtle thing and worth looking at a verse in more detail: Gita 2.55 prajahâti yadâ kâmân praja - to be born or produced, spring up from hati - removal, disappearance, loss, absence yadâ - when, whenever kâmân - wish, desire, longing sarvân pârtha manogatan gata - gone, departed from the world, disappeared âtmany evâtmanâ tustah tusta - satisfied, pleased sthitaprajñas tadocyate sthitaprajña - steady-insight Note that the preceding verse G2.54 also uses 'sthitadhîh - steady-light' along with 'sthitaprajña - steady-insight' in forming the question. Arjuna and Krishna are here speaking about subtle levels of consciousness that are further described in Yoga Sutra's 'nirvicâra samâdhi', which expression is often referenced as transcendental consciousness. We find more subtle insight on the above very important phrase, sthitaprajña - steady-insight, from: Yoga Sutra Y1.48 There (in nirvicâra samâdhi), insight is truth bearing. "rtam bharâ tatra prajñâ" truth bearing there insight Insight now bears out the truth. Truth flows from this level of consciousness, from being established in sthitaprajña. Summing up, we can now easily see G2.55 more simplistically and fundamentally stated something like: G2.55 When the springing up of desires disappear When they all depart from the mind, Arjuna When the Self by the Self is pleased This is steady insight (of transcendental consciousness) The samskâras amplified by the Yoga Sutras are responsible for maintaining the 'desires that have gone (deep) into the mind'. Thus, it is the dissolution and disappearance of samskâras that leads directly to this savored steady intellect of sthitaprajña. Upon dissolution of samskâras, the veil of maya becomes less dense. Self is more clearly seen by Self and one is pleased. This verse is not saying that one should try to suppress or repress desires and have a need to find suffering. This would simply be an ever exhausting interference with natural processes with possible psychotic consequences, a dumping of heavier sorts of maya over maya. Many of these original Vedic translations come from the 18th and 19th centuries with heavy influence from English and German scholars. They thereby reflect some greater degree of 'need for effort and suffering to reach the goal' as habitually espoused by the various Christian traditions (though not by Jesus). This sort of seeming nit picking of Sanskrit can be applied to virtually all the verses, though the intent is simply to come with the most simple and fundamental translation that is possible. We can then apply it to our own preferential interpretation of events. Heaven, as Jesus said, is really close by, here on earth, and not simply a far distant speculative imagination. But there is a lot of heavily skewed information in the tone of most translations, even though the intent was beautiful. A continuing suffering effort is simply not the solution in wanting to gain toward the kingdom of heaven. After all, the appearance of âtma shifts to brahman, it is said, and it is so, merely through simple mental transformation. No? jai guru dev, Edmond Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2002 Report Share Posted March 13, 2002 I must disagree with your statement, "For a person who is progressing on the spiritual path such descriptions help him in his endeavor by making him emulate those traits." The description in the Gita, verses 2-55 through 2- 58, help the already established intellects verify their experiences. It has been the mistake down through the ages that the description of the goal, i.e. description of enlightenment, has become the practice of the followers. Forcing oneself to live these experiences is an exercise in futility. Transcend by whatever means you wish and the goal will come naturally. Joel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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