Guest guest Posted March 16, 2002 Report Share Posted March 16, 2002 Dear advaitins dRSTisRSTiH (Perception is Creation) is the title of an original Sanskrit mss. (among 27 or so mss.) authored and left behind by my father (1882 -1956). It consists of 372 slokas on the topic of Seeing-Seen-Seer. Since this topic is of current interest to the list members, I am mentioning this. I have been intending to translate this work of my father and post both the translation and the original after I finish the translation. But the intensity of discussion that is going on tempts me to post even just a part that I have finished translating, in the past three weeks. I do not claim to say that many of our doubts will be cleared by this. Perhaps new doubts will arise. But here certainly is an authentic advaitic point of view presented by a scholar-believer in orthodoxy and tradition. It was his last work in his life. The 373rd sloka is half-written (obviously on the day prior to his leaving this world) and he breathed his last on the morning of 8th January, 1956. But from the content it appears that the mss. is almost at the end. So far I have translated only 75 slokas. These (both the original and the translation) are posted now on the web as five web-pages. It can be accessed by pursuing the links from http://www.geocities.com/profvk/Appa/Titlepage.html I hope to post the remaining as soon as possible. But I may have to confess that the translating work does not seem to be easy-going and I am not happy at many places! PraNAms to all advaitins. profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2002 Report Share Posted March 18, 2002 Namaste Professor Krishnamurthy, Firstly may I offer my sincere gratitude to your late father and yourself for the opportunity to read such words. I look forward to studying more of this later. You may have picked up from other postings that I had questioned the use of the adjective 'dense' in relation to consciousness in the Tripura Rahasya. I do not have a Sanskrit copy so I had requested help in finding the correct word. Madathilnair had kindly replied with 'ghanam' and I was able to carry out a little further study on this word in other texts. Then comes your posting and we read the same words in your father's text. Could you please help me continue this study. I am not a linguist...I am a retired teacher of Mathematics..... but I am making a study of Bhartrihari's Vakyapadiya and Sphota theory, and so value the role of grammar, in the light of Adishankara's teaching on VAk in Upadesha Sahasri. I will put that one aside for the moment. If I set out the particular verse below, could you please parse the shloka for me. I know that you must be very busy but this would be much appreciated and will help me with my study which has so much in common with your father's inspiration expressed in these words: 4. sphuTaM vaktyeva tadrUpaM vareNyaM teja uttamaM / JAnAnandaghanaM nityaM vyApakaM svetarAsahaM // Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2002 Report Share Posted March 18, 2002 ken, You wanted me to parse this sloka (4) of my father's mss. and probably give you a word by word meaning. I don't think I am going to fare better than the translation I have already given, but I shall try. sphuTaM - Clearly, with clarity, certainly vakty - says, declares eva - indeed tadrUpaM - That Form, that essence vareNyaM - glorious, most revered tejaH - Brilliance, Light uttamaM - superlative JAnAnandaghanaM - JAna+Ananda+ghanaM - Wisdom, Enlightenment, Knowledge + Bliss + Dense. nityaM - eternal, permanent vyApakaM - pervading everywhere svetarAsahaM - svetara + asahaM - other than Self + not tolerating This is how the meaning arose. The word ghanaM is used in mANDUkyopanishat, where it refers to praJAna-ghanaM meaning Dense with consciousness, or Bundle of Consciousness. The word 'dense' in the mathematical world has a precise definition. The rational numbers are said to be dense in the set of all real numbers. The mathematical meaning of this is: For every real number you may think of, whatever neighbourhood of that number you consider, there will be always at least one rational number in that neighbourhood. In other words, there is no neighbourhood of a real number which does not contain rational numbers. Extrapolating this thought to Vedanta, one may say that the universe is dense with consciousness. This will mean, according to the mathematical definition, that, for every object in the universe and in every neighbourhood of it, there is an element of Consciousness. The mathematician may be satisfied with this constructed meaning of 'Consciousness is dense', but the Vedantin is not. For Vedanta, each object in the universe is Consciousness. You don't have to go to a neighbourhood of it and pick elements of consciousness. praJAna-ghanam means, there is Consciousness everywhere and there is nothing else. Regarding the use of ghanaM in the presence of the word vyApakaM, I am not myself very clear. But after you asked the question, may I venture to say that water may pervade everwhere inside a vessel, but there may be air bubbles in it. Denseness will prevent the existence of air bubbles! praNAms to all advaitins profvk You can access my 'Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and Practice' from my Science and Spirituality Website: www.geocities.com/profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2002 Report Share Posted March 19, 2002 --- "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk wrote: Namaste Professor Krishnamurthy, Thank you so much for your speedy reply and giving me a mathematical context. You have highlighted the problem with the word 'dense'. With reference to the mANDUkyopanishat and the 'levels' in consciousness then the rational numbers dwell in the jAgrat and svapna states. However, the undifferentiated consciousness PrAj~na exists as a substratum for the compacted, (more dense?) levels of consciousness as you describe in the following.. >The > mathematician may be satisfied with this constructed > meaning of 'Consciousness is dense', but the > Vedantin is not. For Vedanta, each object in the > universe is Consciousness. You don't have to go to a > neighbourhood of it and pick elements of > consciousness. praJAna-ghanam means, there is > Consciousness everywhere and there is nothing else. > > > Regarding the use of ghanaM in the presence of the > word vyApakaM, I am not myself very clear. But after > you asked the question, may I venture to say that > water may pervade everywhere inside a vessel, but > there may be air bubbles in it. Denseness will > prevent the existence of air bubbles! My present conclusion is that these two words are proximate because they need to be to avoid the interpretation of compacted particles...not an advaitin understanding. Words are limits and to break their boundaries we need more words. Another illustration may be that the particles of the pot may appear as dense and compacted but the space within the pot, outside of the pot and within the molecular structure of the pot is untouched by the particles, it is singular and undivided by the pot. Even if we construct millions of cube pots and stack them together as densely as we can, that space will remain unaffected. Only space itself can 'enter' into space. In the differentiated states of jAgrat and svapna there is no possibility of union. With this background I was viewing your revered father's words. May I please return briefly to the grammar. I am sure that there is some profound philosophy behind the types of compound..tatpurusha etc..and I will be enquiring into this more in the future. It was with this in mind that I was asking about the parsing of the shloka. In particular these compounds: > JAnAnandaghanaM - JAna+Ananda+ghanaM - Wisdom,etc. > svetarAsahaM - svetara + asahaM - other than Self + > not tolerating Which type of compound is each of these? Also I had been using a dictionary to translate jAna as 'generating' rather than j~nAna, 'knowledge'. I also had great fun trying to divide up svetarAsaham into its constituent parts and getting very interesting meanings. A sign that a little knowledge can be confusing so thank you for taking the time to help me out, Many thanks once more, Ken Knight Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2002 Report Share Posted March 19, 2002 --- "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk wrote: > Regarding the use of ghanaM in the presence of the > word vyApakaM, I am not myself very clear. But after > you asked the question, may I venture to say that > water may pervade everwhere inside a vessel, but > there may be air bubbles in it. Denseness will > prevent the existence of air bubbles! > > praNAms to all advaitins > profvk > Professor VK Thanks for providing the slokas and the meaning of the beatiful works of your father. I for one will be looking forword for the complete text with your meanings as well as for the text on Giita. Shree Vishavnatha Sastri was indeed blessed by a son who is well versed in vedanta and math to put these two things together. When we cannot express a simple experince of an electrical shock with words other than haa haa - huu huu mantra-s, how can a finite mind can put in words that which is behond the words. But yet we cannot but use words in communicating in language to the next generation. Vedantic words are intended for deeper meaning to take one beyond the words. Hence scriptures have taken strange combination of words as not exact description but as pointer that cannot be pointed. It is just for meditation mind to discard all that can be pointed and to take one beyond the words. We transcend the words using the words. I thinkg gGhanam and vyaaptam together are used to discard any limitations internally or externally that is to indicated infiniteness and limitlessness - no sajaati, vijaati swagata bbeda-s. Hari OM! Sadananda Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2002 Report Share Posted March 21, 2002 --- "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk wrote: > Dear advaitins > > dRSTisRSTiH . It can be > accessed by pursuing the links from > http://www.geocities.com/profvk/Appa/Titlepage.html > Namaste /\ If it would be possible, I would greatly appreciate if someone could post the said translations to this list as well so that grateful souls like me may read them as well. Thanks, Raghava Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2002 Report Share Posted March 21, 2002 May I ask how you have e-mail access but no web access? (Just out of curiosity...) Thanks Brian | | Raghava Kaluri [raghavakaluri] | Thursday, 21 March 2002 08:19 | advaitin | Re: dRSTisRSTiH by R. Visvanatha Sastri | | | | --- "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk wrote: | > Dear advaitins | > | > dRSTisRSTiH . It can be | > accessed by pursuing the links from | > http://www.geocities.com/profvk/Appa/Titlepage.html | > | Namaste /\ | If it would be possible, I would greatly appreciate if | someone could post the said translations to this list | as well so that grateful souls like me may read them | as well. | | Thanks, | Raghava | | | | | Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards. | http://movies./ | | ------------------------ Sponsor | ---------------------~--> | FREE COLLEGE MONEY | CLICK HERE to search | 600,000 scholarships! | http://us.click./iZp8OC/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/XUWolB/TM | ---------------------------- | --------~-> | | Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of | nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. | Advaitin List Archives available at: | http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ | To Post a message send an email to : advaitin | Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages | | | | Your use of is subject to | | | Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2002 Report Share Posted March 21, 2002 praNAms to all advaitins This is just to inform you that the second set of 75 slokas along with English translation (Nos.76 -150) have been posted on the site starting from the web-page http://www.geocities.com/profvk/Appa/dRSTisRSTiHpage6.html Regards. Please note that sloka No.150 has been left untranslated. Pure Ignorance, friends, pure Ignorance! profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2002 Report Share Posted March 21, 2002 Dear ken Have you seen the site: http://freespace.virgin.net/francis.miles. Since you were interested in the grammar of Compounds I thought I would draw your attention to this site. Regards, profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2002 Report Share Posted March 22, 2002 --- "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk wrote: > > Have you seen the site: > > http://freespace.virgin.net/francis.miles. > > Since you were interested in the grammar of > Compounds I thought I would draw your attention to > this site. Dear Professor Krishnamurthy, Thank you for this site. It led me on to some other interesting places. There is in the grammar of Bhartrihari the assertion that grammar has a soteriological function.. I would like to find people who would agree with this assertion adn learn from them so if ever you hear of such a person please let me know. Many thanks Ken Knight Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2002 Report Share Posted March 23, 2002 advaitin, Brian Milnes <b.milnes@b...> wrote: > May I ask how you have e-mail access but no web access? > > (Just out of curiosity...) > > Thanks > > Brian > > Namaste Brian, You may certainly ask, but you shall not receive :-) With Love, Raghava Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2002 Report Share Posted March 23, 2002 --- raghavakaluri <raghavakaluri wrote: > advaitin, Brian Milnes <b.milnes@b...> > wrote: > > May I ask how you have e-mail access but no web > access? > > > > (Just out of curiosity...) > > > > Thanks > > > > Brian > > > > Namaste, Brian has a point here. Due to the size, it may not be a good idea to send to everyone the document which most people can read on the web anyway. So, please ignore my earlier request. Thanks and Kind Regards, Raghava Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 PraNAMs. I have just posted sloka nos.151 to 225 of dRSTisRSTiH on the site. It starts from the page: http://www.geocities.com/profvk/Appa/dRSTisRSTiHpage11,html Incidentally I have also posted what I consider a rare ashtottara of Durga-Lakshmi-Sarasvati (a three in one stotra) in the form of a namavali, which I found in my father's note books. I have not seen it anywhere in print. You can access it from http://www.geocities.com/profvk/Appa/Titlepage.html With praNAms to all advaitins profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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