"Who Am I", verses 3 to 5, by Ramana Maharshi

[Guest guest]

"Who Am I", by Ramana Maharshi, an excerpt is given below from:

http://home.talkcity.com/GaiaWay/infinite_freedom/WHO_AM_I.htm

 

<<<

3. What is the nature of Awareness?

 

The nature of Awareness is existence-consciousness-bliss

 

4. When will the realization of the Self be gained?

 

When the world which is what-is-seen has been removed,

 

there will be realization of the Self which is the seer.

 

5. Will there not be realization of the Self

 

even while the world is there?

 

There will not be. >>>

 

 

The answer given at 5 above, "There will not be" simply does not have to be

the experience, quite the contrary. Indeed, the actual four words used here,

"There will not be", is a command, a direct order to promote and habituate

the suppression of something which otherwise may naturally and spontaneously

want to arise. Self, which is the witness of the Seer, along with the

subjective Seer itself (herself/himself) may both exist in full conscious

awareness simultaneously along with the objective Seen. Indeed, even the

relationship between the Seer and the Seen, which might be called the process

of Seeing, can also show up simultaneously. Such new arising sightings can

feel quite strange and bewildering in the beginning days and may be dismissed

quickly when they appear, especially if the intellectual theoretical mapping

(here called avaita) does not clearly include such phenomenal experiences.

 

It would seem that the nature of individual phenomenal experience is of first

priority. Then, and only then, theoretical supporting structures need be

found to form consistent basis for intellectual streams of thought that can

support the realities of experience, not only name and form, but especially

feeling also. Feeling is often dismissed as some irrelevant consequence of

improper intellectualization processes, whereas it may well be that the very

intellectualization processes themselves all arise from the primary important

domain of feelings.

 

Advaita is to personal experiences something like what mathematics is to

physics, an overall postulated blueprint to homogenize experiences and data

into an orderly flow of sequences to portray intellectual verbalization of

the nature of reality. The experiences of man and the data from physics take

priority in the evolution of understanding, and the structural helpmates,

avaita and mathematics, need to change and/or be updated as the experiential

phenomena and the experimental data evolve. If the associated helpmate

philosophy and/or mathematics does not accommodate the experience, then it is

the philosophy and/or mathematics that must be updated. We surely do NOT

want the experiences to be suppressed and/or repressed nor do we want the

physical data to be falsely manipulated to perpetuate untruths.

 

It might be nice if someone could give us the Sanskrit transliteration of the

above Ramana Marharshi verses. I would think that these are important points

to further peruse, indeed, of primary importance where there is hardly a

thing of more importance. Once we put together a beautiful mathematics, it

just doesn't seem right that we now push our every new experience to conform

to the mathematics rather than to insist that the mathematics conform to the

new experience. This is vital it seems to me, and it again refers back to

whether we will take our intellectual constructs to weigh first over our

spontaneously evolving experiences (flowing sakti phenomena), or rather, to

insist on an updated mathematics that will adjust to the new fine structure

findings coming to our ever growing awareness.

 

jai guru dev,

 

Edmond

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

can anybody please tell me that where do i get the "Shankerbhaashya"...the

commenteries written by Adi shankara...........online.....so i can read it

online

-

<edmeasure

<advaitin>

Monday, March 18, 2002 7:49 AM

"Who Am I", verses 3 to 5, by Ramana Maharshi

 

> "Who Am I", by Ramana Maharshi, an excerpt is given below from:

> http://home.talkcity.com/GaiaWay/infinite_freedom/WHO_AM_I.htm

>

> <<<

> 3. What is the nature of Awareness?

>

> The nature of Awareness is existence-consciousness-bliss

>

> 4. When will the realization of the Self be gained?

>

> When the world which is what-is-seen has been removed,

>

> there will be realization of the Self which is the seer.

>

> 5. Will there not be realization of the Self

>

> even while the world is there?

>

> There will not be. >>>

>

>

> The answer given at 5 above, "There will not be" simply does not have to

be

> the experience, quite the contrary. Indeed, the actual four words used

here,

> "There will not be", is a command, a direct order to promote and habituate

> the suppression of something which otherwise may naturally and

spontaneously

> want to arise. Self, which is the witness of the Seer, along with the

> subjective Seer itself (herself/himself) may both exist in full conscious

> awareness simultaneously along with the objective Seen. Indeed, even the

> relationship between the Seer and the Seen, which might be called the

process

> of Seeing, can also show up simultaneously. Such new arising sightings

can

> feel quite strange and bewildering in the beginning days and may be

dismissed

> quickly when they appear, especially if the intellectual theoretical

mapping

> (here called avaita) does not clearly include such phenomenal experiences.

>

> It would seem that the nature of individual phenomenal experience is of

first

> priority. Then, and only then, theoretical supporting structures need be

> found to form consistent basis for intellectual streams of thought that

can

> support the realities of experience, not only name and form, but

especially

> feeling also. Feeling is often dismissed as some irrelevant consequence

of

> improper intellectualization processes, whereas it may well be that the

very

> intellectualization processes themselves all arise from the primary

important

> domain of feelings.

>

> Advaita is to personal experiences something like what mathematics is to

> physics, an overall postulated blueprint to homogenize experiences and

data

> into an orderly flow of sequences to portray intellectual verbalization of

> the nature of reality. The experiences of man and the data from physics

take

> priority in the evolution of understanding, and the structural helpmates,

> avaita and mathematics, need to change and/or be updated as the

experiential

> phenomena and the experimental data evolve. If the associated helpmate

> philosophy and/or mathematics does not accommodate the experience, then it

is

> the philosophy and/or mathematics that must be updated. We surely do NOT

> want the experiences to be suppressed and/or repressed nor do we want the

> physical data to be falsely manipulated to perpetuate untruths.

>

> It might be nice if someone could give us the Sanskrit transliteration of

the

> above Ramana Marharshi verses. I would think that these are important

points

> to further peruse, indeed, of primary importance where there is hardly a

> thing of more importance. Once we put together a beautiful mathematics,

it

> just doesn't seem right that we now push our every new experience to

conform

> to the mathematics rather than to insist that the mathematics conform to

the

> new experience. This is vital it seems to me, and it again refers back to

> whether we will take our intellectual constructs to weigh first over our

> spontaneously evolving experiences (flowing sakti phenomena), or rather,

to

> insist on an updated mathematics that will adjust to the new fine

structure

> findings coming to our ever growing awareness.

>

> jai guru dev,

>

> Edmond

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of

Atman and Brahman.

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