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| Both points of view are valid. Like so many things in our

| scriptures,

| these are determined by the qualification (Adhikara) of the aspirant.

 

Before Ed jumps in here, I have to state how fundamentally I disagree with

everything you say here.

 

This is EXACTLY the kind of mumbo-jumbo, topsy-turvy stuff that MMY had in mind.

 

TM, as a specific technique of meditation, requires no assessment of the

candidate's qualities. It's available to all, almost without exception.

 

I'll critique the rest of this post at length, later.

 

Regards

 

Brian

 

| According to Raja Yoga, there are three types of aspirants - Uttama,

| Madhyama and Adhama Adhikaris. To three classes of aspirants Raja

| Yoga prescribes three kinds of Sadhana. To the Uttama

| Adhikari (first-

| class aspirant) Raja Yoga prescribes Abhyasa and Vairagya. He

| practices meditation on the Self; he practices Chitta-Vritti-Nirodha

| (restraining the modification of the mind-stuff) and soon

| enters into

| Samadhi. This is practice (Abhyasa) sustained by Vairagya. To the

| Madhyama Adhikari (middling aspirant) Raja Yoga prescribes the Kriya

| Yoga - Tapas, Svadhyaya and Ishvarapranidhana. Tapas is austerity.

| Egolessness and selfless service are the greatest forms of Tapas.

| Humility and desirelessness are the greatest forms of austerity.

| Practice these through ceaseless, untiring, selfless service.

| Practice the three kinds of Tapas mentioned in the Gita.

| Disciplinary

| practices like fasting, etc., also come under Tapas. Svadhyaya is

| study of spiritual literature and also Japa of your Ishta Mantra.

| Ishvarapranidhana is self-surrender to the Lord and doing

| all actions

| as Ishvararpana, as offering unto the Lord. These three form the

| Sadhanas of the Madhyama Adhikari who enters into deep meditation

| very soon and attains Kaivalya Moksha. To the Adhama

| Adhikari, lowest

| kind of aspirant, Raja Yoga prescribes Ashtanga Yoga or the

| eightfold

| Sadhana - Yama, Niyama, Asana, Pranayama, Pratyahara,

| Dharana, Dhyana

| and Samadhi.

| --

| extracted from Swami Sivananda's Raja Yoga book:

| http://www.sivanandadlshq.org/teachings/rajayoga.htm#sutras

|

| It appears Sri Edmond is talking about the uttama adhikari whereas

| the discourse may be discussing the madhyama adhikari.

|

| As Sri Gummurulu points out good karmas and deep meditation are

| cause and effect but not necessarily in a sequential, linear way but

| more in a repetitive, iterative manner. It is not like a person has

| to do 'good' karmas for 20 years and then embark on meditation for

| the next 20 years. Both could happen daily in a Sadhaka's life.

|

| To be able to do any meditation, there has to be some chitta suddhi.

| Otherwise as Lord Krishna says the person would be a 'mithyachara' -

| sitting in meditation but the mind wandering around and thinking of

| sense objects etc. So to get to the initial stage, chitta suddhi via

| Karma Yoga is required. But when a person is able to meditate, the

| very practice itself generates chitta suddhi which in turn enables

| the person to perform 'good' karmas generating more chitta

| suddhi and

| this whole process repeats itself.

|

| As mentioned in my earlier posting, Karma Yoga is doing karmas as

| offering unto the Lord - this is essentially the same

| as 'Ishvarapranidhana' that Maharishi Patanjali prescribes as 'kriya

| yoga'

|

| 'Tapah Svadhyaye Isvara pranidhanani kriya yogah'

| Yoga Sutras II.1

|

|

| -- Sundar Rajan