how to practise non-attachment to our work.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/1/02 10:56:39 AM Eastern Standard Time,

vivekananda writes:

 

> Dear sir /madam

> iam 26 years old & iam a dentist.I read gita printed by ISKON. It

> is difficult for me to apply the principles of gita [like non-attachment to

> our work] because i feel for a grihasta he needs money in this

> materialistic world & hence he aims fruits of his work while doing work.

> Please let me know how to apply this principle of non-attachment

> to our work in one's daily life.

> Thanking you.

> yours sincerely

> sudhir reddy

> [ email i.d -] sudhirreddy2000

>

 

My dear sir:

 

Please, please do not apply nonattachment mental routines while I sit in your

dentist's chair awaiting the coming of the drill. Nonattachment is not

something that is done, for instance, as repeating: "I am nonattached, I am

nonattached, etc, to this or that". Nor is it something like forcing an air

of aloofness outside of the domain of the tasks at hand. Nonattachment is

not something we do or practice. Rather, nonattachment is something that

begins to appear, naturally and spontaneously as we spend a bit of time in

transcendental consciousness and slowly start dragging the field of

transcendental consciousness out into the field of waking state. Forcing a

nonattachment attitude can only start splitting one's mind into two pieces

rather than organizing it in unity, yoga. Forcing nonattachment can only

make us dull and slovenly, for we are thus simply habituating ourselves to

being noninvolved. Life is for action and for spirited involvement, again,

especially when I am sitting in you dentist's chair. Forcing nonattachment

is an error in interpretation of scripture. It is not something to be

forced.

 

jai guru dev,

 

Edmond

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

The following interesting email from Sudhir asks:

How to practise non-attachment?

May I request the list to offer some suggestions.

The response can go directly to Sudhir or via the list..........

 

jay

Vivekananda Centre London

~~~~~~~~~~~~ copy email ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Monday, April 01, 2002 04:03

how to practise non-attachment to our work.

 

 

Dear sir /madam

iam 26 years old & iam a dentist.I read gita printed by ISKON. It is

difficult for me to apply the principles of gita [like non-attachment to our

work] because i feel for a grihasta he needs money in this materialistic world &

hence he aims fruits of his work while doing work.

Please let me know how to apply this principle of non-attachment to our

work in one's daily life.

Thanking you.

yours sincerely

sudhir reddy

[ email i.d -] sudhirreddy2000

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Pranams.

To practise non-attachment, the following steps might help:

Step1. First list the things to which you are most attached. Be merciless to

yourself. List all elementary attachments also.

Step2. Rearrange the list in the descending order of attachment. This may be a

difficult task. But do it any way. Let us call this list A,B,C, ... ,X, Y,Z.

Hopefully the list is finite!

Step 3. Now tell yourself: 'These Z, Y, X are not that important. If they do

not happen or behave the way I want it, let me not worry about them. After all

there are greater things to worry about, like my A, B, C. So let me try to take

them out of my list of attachments. This is the punchline. Try and don't worry

about success or failure here. It is the effort that is important.

Step 4. The argument in Step 3 may not work. Now start believing it is God that

fouls up your expectations with respect to Z,Y,X. So throw the blame on God and

try to convince yourself it is not worthwhile to worry about or be attached to

Z,Y,X. Speak to God mentally: 'Oh God, if you really want to have your way, do

it with things Z,Y,X. But do not let me down with respect to things A,B,C'. So

give in to Him with respect to X,Y,Z. (Don't ask me: Why should I give in?

Remember it is you who wanted methods to practise non-attachment. That means

you have to give in, somewhere).

Step 5. In due time (the amount of time will depend upon your vAsanAs), your

attachment to Z,Y,X will become minimal. Now go back to step 3 and repeat step

3 with U,V,W replacing X,Y,Z. and follow it up with step 4 and step 5.

Step 6. Now intellectually convince yourself that not a leaf moves without God

and not a finger can be lifted without His Will. It may be necessary at this

point to be deeply involved in the company of noble souls.

Step 7. This is the time to voluntarily develop feelings of attachment and love

towards a personal God or a Guru. The whole principle is: Every attachment to

material things has to be replaced by an attachment, faith and love towards

God. If you are not convinced of this, it means you have to repeat steps 1 to 6

again and again until you see step 7 to be the only way.

 

 

Pranams to all advaitins.

Profvk

 

 

 

 

 

=====

Prof. V. Krishnamurthy

The simplified URL of my website on Science and Spirituality is

http://www.geocities.com/profvk/

You can also access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and

Practice from the same address.

 

 

 

Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover

http://greetings./

[Guest guest]

Dear Sundar:

 

I enjoyed your response. Thank you. However, I am compelled to continue

critically. It would seem that an earlier exposition was not clearly enough

stated, so I will add additional word definitions that further support

differences from the most commonly seen translations of Gita 9.27. The

shifts in meaning are slight and subtle but the implications are ever so

profound. Thus, it is worth doing again. The following is a repeat of the

3-28-02 G9.27 posting to the advaitin list, plus an addition added at the

bottom:

------------

G9.27

Whatever thou doest, whatever thou eatest, whatever thou offerest, whatever

thou givest away, whatever auterities thou dost practise -- do that, O Son of

Kuntî (Arjuna), as an offering to Me.

 

As from the above, the final quarter of G9.27 usually reads something like:

 

'tat kurusva mad arpanam - DO THAT as an offering to me'

 

The DO THAT aspect may be OK but we look closer for fine structure by

considering the following more literal translation:

 

tat (those activities) kurusva (of one's own field of endeavor, i.e., of the

field or domain of oneself) mad (are to me) arpanam (consigned)

 

Rather than the effort demanding task of forcing an 'offering' to some

external phenomena, the field of experience is merely re-consigned or

transformed. Any and all activities thus (eventually) posit themselves into

the consciousness of Krishna. In other words, consider the above Sanskrit

phrase as:

 

'tat kurusva mad arpanam - ARE an offering to me'

 

Again, we see an ever so slight a shift in the assumed placement roles among

cause and effect. It's not so much TO DO, rather than IT HAPPENS.

Effortlessness is the key to this new understanding. In the end, it is

effortlessness that is behind all of the siddhis, as they never occur with

effort. Efforts rather preclude the subtler notions of pure consciousness.

Effortlessness, an easy sliding into subtle relationships, is the key.

 

tat - that, those

 

kuru - field

 

sva - one's own

 

ar - to insert, place in; to excite; to bring near, fetch; to come; to reach,

obtain, to cause to partake of; to fix, settle, annex

 

pan - to be worthy of admiration or to admire, to regard with surprise or

wonder, to admire, praise, acknowledge; to rejoice at, be glad of

 

arpanam - procuring; consigning, entrusting; inserting, fixing; piercing;

placing in or upon; offering , delivering , consigning , entrusting of

 

Thus, the relationship between Arjuna and Krishna can be seen as a reciprocal

transformation of consciousness between the two widely differing fields of

being. Krishna can fathom Arjuna because he can configure himself in any

desired spatial format, but so too, Arjuna can be positioned to fathom

Krishna by consigning or allowing himself to be placed upon the kurusva (own

field) of Krishna consciousness. The actual consignments or transformations

experienced are according to the nature of the activities, not through causal

intellectual explanations. Rather it is through a reciprocal piercing or

consignment of subtle energy packets themselves, i.e., moving in and out of

transcendence. However, before moving in an out of transcendence, we first

have to experience and thus come to know about this transcendence. We always

think we know about this, but perhaps we do not? This transcendence

phenomena is a great deal more than an empty state of nothingness and

quietness, as some might erroneously believe. Indeed, it is the very source

of everything, very analogous (if not identical) to physic's 'vacuum state',

out of which measurable particulants arise.

 

---------------- Additional details-----------

 

Copied from above, we have the last quarter of G9.27:

 

'tat kurusva mad arpanam - DO THAT as an offering to me', typical translation

 

'tat kurusva mad arpanam - THAT IS an offering to me', translation here being

advanced

 

Something that simply turns out TO BE an offering and something that must BE

DONE as an offering are two different things altogether. In the first case,

we are taking definite, willful forceful steps TO DO something. In the

second case, the view after the fact, like being a Monday morning

quarterback, simply is now seen TO BE an offering. The difference here lies

in the differences of TO DO versus TO BE. Active or Passive. CAUSE or

EFFECT. Cause and Effect have been interchanged, not a trivial difference at

all. Almost the same thing is being said, in different words, as you say,

but not really. It first sight it seems almost the same, the differences are

so subtle. Yet, they are not the same at all. Indeed, the differences are

really like night or day in magnitude.

 

When we look further at the etymology surrounding 'mad', other interesting

thoughts develop:

 

ma - first person pronoun stem

 

mad - base of the first person pronoun; to rejoice, be glad, exult, delight,

be drunk, to enjoy heavenly bliss, to gladden, exhilarate, intoxicate,

animate

 

Though definitely concerned with the first person pronoun, we also see the

other meanings for 'mad'. It is not ridiculous to further translate this

same last quarter of G9.27, at least in spirit, as:

 

'tat kurusva mad arpanam - That is consigned or delivered to enjoy heavenly

bliss.'

 

After all, does not being delivered to îsvara usually imply some sort of

delight or heavenly enjoyment? And of course, this is precisely the

experience, a flow of bliss, so we have still more confidence in such a

translation.

 

Now, when a suggestion is made that both 'paths' lead to the same result,

again here, we continue to look at this same translational difference

described above. Here, the 'paths' are different and the results are also

different. The maya indication of the results can appear similar at first

glance, but they are not. In one case, all elements and movements of

meditation reside totally in the field of maya and the intellect. In the

other case, the elements and movements shift about between the fields of maya

and the transcendence. That is a huge difference. It is worth experiencing

and knowing the differences, first hand. It's not enough to think of the

differences with maya talk and logic alone.

 

jai guru dev,

 

Edmond

 

 

In a message dated 4/1/02 2:53:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,

avsundarrajan writes:

 

> Dear Edmond,

> You make some very good points.

> >>

> Nonattachment is

> not something we do or practice.

> >>

> You you cannot practice non-attachment but you are asked to practice

> attachment to Ishwara as in

>

> yatkaroshhi yadashnaasi yaj{}juhoshhi dadaasi yat.h .

> yattapasyasi kaunteya tatkurushhva madarpaNam.h .. Gita 9.27..

>

> O Son of Kunti, whatever you do, whatever you eat, whatever

> sacrifices you perform, whatever you give, and whatever austerities

> you undertake - make them an offering to Me.

>

> This verse keeps coming back, doesn't it?

>

> > Rather, nonattachment is something that

> > begins to appear, naturally and spontaneously as we spend a bit of

> time in

> > transcendental consciousness and slowly start dragging the field of

> > transcendental consciousness out into the field of waking state.

>

> very good point. I made the same point in my reply although the

> wordings are different. Whatever path of meditation one practices,

> results are similar.

>

> regards

> Sundar Rajan

>

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Sudhir,

 

It is good to see a youngster like yourself interested in this topic.

 

WHY?

To answer your question, we need to step back and look at the big

picture and need to understand why the Gita or Lord Krishna

advocates "non-attachment":

 

* Gita , as Sri Sankara says is "Moksha Shastra" or scripture dealing

with Freedom

* Freedom from what? Freedom from the bondage or misapprehension that

we are limited, that we are the body and the mind etc. Gita and all

of our Shastras point out that the misapprehension and the bondage

can only be removed by Knowledge or Jnana.

 

In this context, performing "non-attached" work or performing work

for Ishwara, results in chitta suddhi, which in turn makes the mind

fit for Jnana as indicated in slokas 9.27 and 9.28 (see below).

Initially effort or practice is required to mentally dedicate the

results of actions to Ishwara. As one practices a Spiritual Sadhana

taught by a competent Guru, the positive effects of the Sadhana will

naturally induce one to dedicate actions and their results to the

Lord and thereby become less attached. Sri Edmond also points this

out in his post advaitin/message/12937

 

HOW?:

 

If a person is non-attached to his/her work, who are they performing

the work for? Gita itself answers the question : "for the Lord" or we

are advised to do the work as "Ishwara Arpanam". Performing work

with "non-attachment" is the same as performing work for Ishwara.

 

How do you do your work as "Ishwara Arpanam"? Do you physically take

the fruit of your action, work or job such as the salary or fee to

the Lord? No. You mentally dedicate the actions and results to the

Lord :

 

yatkaroshhi yadashnaasi yaj{}juhoshhi dadaasi yat.h .

yattapasyasi kaunteya tatkurushhva madarpaNam.h .. Gita 9.27..

 

O Son of Kunti, whatever you do, whatever you eat, whatever

sacrifices you perform, whatever you give, and whatever austerities

you undertake - make them an offering to Me.

 

Remember here Lord Krishna does not preclude ANY activity. He

includes every single activity you do whether the activity is of a

Grihasta earning money for the family or a Grihasta enjoying a

movie/show or taking care of children or whatever . For example - if

you are working at a clinic, you would MENTALLY dedicate the fruit

(result of action) of your work, say a dental appointment with a

patient to the Lord, after your work is over.

 

If you ask why should I do this? In the next sloka, Lord Krishna

speaks about the results of this kind a a of worship:

 

shubhaashubhaphalairevaM mokshyase karmabandhanaiH .

sa.nnyaasayogayuk{}taatmaa vimuk{}to maamupaishhyasi ..9.28..

 

Thus you will become free from actions which are by nature bondages

(and) are productive of good and bad results. Having your mind

purified by the yoga of sannyasa (and) becoming free, you will

attain Me.

 

advaitin, "Vivekananda Centre" <vivekananda@b...> wrote:

> The following interesting email from Sudhir asks:

> How to practise non-attachment?

> May I request the list to offer some suggestions.

> The response can go directly to Sudhir or via the list..........

>

> jay

> Vivekananda Centre London

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~ copy email ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Monday, April 01, 2002 04:03

> how to practise non-attachment to our work.

>

>

> Dear sir /madam

> iam 26 years old & iam a dentist.I read gita printed by

ISKON. It is difficult for me to apply the principles of gita [like

non-attachment to our work] because i feel for a grihasta he needs

money in this materialistic world & hence he aims fruits of his work

while doing work.

> Please let me know how to apply this principle of non-

attachment to our work in one's daily life.

> Thanking you.

> yours sincerely

> sudhir reddy

> [ email i.d -] sudhirreddy2000

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

>

>

 

regards

Sundar Rajan

[Guest guest]

Dear Edmond,

You make some very good points.

>>

Nonattachment is

not something we do or practice.

>>

You you cannot practice non-attachment but you are asked to practice

attachment to Ishwara as in

 

yatkaroshhi yadashnaasi yaj{}juhoshhi dadaasi yat.h .

yattapasyasi kaunteya tatkurushhva madarpaNam.h .. Gita 9.27..

 

O Son of Kunti, whatever you do, whatever you eat, whatever

sacrifices you perform, whatever you give, and whatever austerities

you undertake - make them an offering to Me.

 

This verse keeps coming back, doesn't it?

> Rather, nonattachment is something that

> begins to appear, naturally and spontaneously as we spend a bit of

time in

> transcendental consciousness and slowly start dragging the field of

> transcendental consciousness out into the field of waking state.

 

very good point. I made the same point in my reply although the

wordings are different. Whatever path of meditation one practices,

results are similar.

 

regards

Sundar Rajan

[Guest guest]

> how to practise non-attachment to our

> work.

>

 

Namaste,

Others have written well on this topic and offered

slokas that are essential to our understanding.

May I add a little.

Firstly, know that you are 'unattached to your work'

but you, as with all us, have practised attachment and

become very good at it.

At the end of each inner and each outer breath there

ia a moment of rest. Similarly, at the end and

beginning of each action there is a moment of rest.

It is at that moment that the action may be dedicated

by remembering a sloka or or single word or in

whichever way is appropriate for you.

To begin with this may be the end and beginning of

each day. Then upon leaving and upon entering your

surgery. Gradually memory will assist in the practice

and you can allow this natural rhythm to prevail.

 

So, again, non-attachment is our natural state and we

just have to unlearn the bad habits picked up over the

years.

 

Good fortune be with your service in healing,

 

Ken Knight

 

 

 

Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover

http://greetings./

[Guest guest]

Dear Edmond,

To your message below:

> Rather, nonattachment is something that

> begins to appear, naturally and spontaneously as we spend a bit

> of

> time in

> transcendental consciousness and slowly start dragging the

> field of

> transcendental consciousness out into the field of waking

> state.

>

 

I Had said:

> very good point. I made the same point in my reply although the

> wordings are different. Whatever path of meditation one practices,

> results are similar.

 

I am not sure whether my message above conveyed what I really wanted

to convey. While I appreciate you bringing out the good, positive

benefits of the practice of TM in your message above, such results

are not the monopoly of TM or for that matter any specific technique

or school of meditation. Rather, they are the results of Good

Meditation.

 

Positive benefits such as the ones you posted

have also been observed by aspirants (needless to say, taught by a

competent Guru) practicing other types of meditation.

 

Here is an excerpt from my message posted to this forum last year

(29, Apr, 2001)

http://www.escribe.com/culture/advaitin/m9124.html

>>

AND even in the beginning stages the effects of meditation

(pleasantness,joy, inner tranquility) spill over well into the daily

activities long after meditation.

>>

 

regards

Sundar Rajan

[Guest guest]

Dear Edmond,

> 'tat kurusva mad arpanam - DO THAT as an offering to me', typical

> translation

>

> 'tat kurusva mad arpanam - THAT IS an offering to me', translation

> here being advanced

>

I have very little Sanskrit knowledge. Your translation does make

sense and this is indeed a new way of looking at the Sloka.

 

Interestingly, Sri Madhusudana Saraswati in His commentary gives

this meaning:

madarpanam - an offering to Me; you do them in such a way that they

become offered to Me.

 

Nevertheless getting back to my original post, the question I was

trying to address was why "non-attachment" and how to practice it.

 

Lord Krishna says in 3.5

na hi kashchitkshaNamapi jaatu tishhThatyakarmakR^it.h .

kaaryate hyavashaH karma sarvaH prakR^itijairguNaiH .. 3\.5..

 

Because no one can remain actionless even for a moment. Everyone

is driven to action, helplessly indeed, by the Gunas of nature.

(3.05)

 

Since all actions produce bondage (because they produce good or bad

results and one needs to have a 'body' to receive the karma phalam),

for a spiritual aspirant, to escape from bondage, Gita says:

 

yaGYaarthaatkarmaNo.anyatra loko.aya.n karmabandhanaH .

tadartha.n karma kaunteya muk{}tasaN^gaH samaachara .. 3\.9..

 

Human beings are bound by action other than that action which is

meant for the supreme Lord. Without being attached, O son of Kunti,

you perform action for Him. (3.09)

 

Sri Madhusudana Saraswati comments that actions do not bind when the

actions are done as a worship of God. This answers both the why and

the how.

 

Taken in this context, the sloka 9.27 elaborates on this kind of

yagna or worship.

yatkaroshhi yadashnaasi yaj{}juhoshhi dadaasi yat.h .

yattapasyasi kaunteya tatkurushhva madarpaNam.h .. Gita 9.27..

 

O Son of Kunti, whatever you do, whatever you eat, whatever

sacrifices you perform, whatever you give, and whatever austerities

you undertake - make them an offering to Me.

 

Sri Madhusudana Saraswati says in His commentary :

The very offering of the results of the inevitable actions to Me,

who am the supreme Guru, is My worship. Not that one has to

undertake some other act for this. This is the idea.

 

regards

Sundar Rajan

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

On 4/1 Edmond reiterated:

G9.27

Whatever thou doest, whatever thou eatest, whatever

thou offerest, whatever

thou givest away, whatever auterities thou dost

practise -- do that, O Son of

Kuntî (Arjuna), as an offering to Me.

 

As from the above, the final quarter of G9.27 usually

reads something like:

 

'tat kurusva mad arpanam - DO THAT as an offering

to me'

 

The DO THAT aspect may be OK but we look closer

for fine structure by

considering the following more literal translation:

 

tat (those activities) kurusva (of one's own field of

endeavor, i.e., of the

field or domain of oneself) mad (are to me) arpanam

(consigned)

 

Rather than the effort demanding task of forcing an

'offering' to some

external phenomena, the field of experience is

merely re-consigned or

transformed.  Any and all activities thus (eventually)

posit themselves into

the consciousness of Krishna.  In other words,

consider the above Sanskrit

phrase as:

 

'tat kurusva mad arpanam - ARE an offering to me'

 

As Sanskrit is understood here, 'kurusva' is the

second singular imperative of the root kri, that is,

make! or do! So, second half of Gita verse 9, 27

can be taken to mean roughly:

Whatever austerities you perform, make that as an

offering to me.

Your point is well-taken that one has to walk a very

fine line in following non-attachment, in making an

offering to the Lord, to avoid the pitfalls of DOING.

It involves a subtle inner effort to dedicate one's

efforts back to the source of all.

At the same time, one must respect the integrity of

the Sanskrita pada. Be wary of using your

magnificent manas/ discursive mind to make the

Sanskrita fit what you think the text is saying. it is

far better to reflect on the verse BG 9,27--abandoning

all ideas and preconceptions of what it means,

going back again and again to the Sanskrita, so that

the deeper spiritual significance may be allowed to

emerge. Otherwise, the snare of "doing" may well

be encountered even in reading the Scriptures.

 

Kenneth

 

---------------

Get the award winning ISP, AT&T WorldNet Service

http://download.att.net/webtag

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

On 4/1 Edmond reiterated:

G9.27

Whatever thou doest, whatever thou eatest, whatever

thou offerest, whatever

thou givest away, whatever auterities thou dost

practise -- do that, O Son of

Kuntî (Arjuna), as an offering to Me.

 

As from the above, the final quarter of G9.27 usually

reads something like:

 

'tat kurusva mad arpanam - DO THAT as an offering

to me'

 

The DO THAT aspect may be OK but we look closer

for fine structure by

considering the following more literal translation:

 

tat (those activities) kurusva (of one's own field of

endeavor, i.e., of the

field or domain of oneself) mad (are to me) arpanam

(consigned)

 

Rather than the effort demanding task of forcing an

'offering' to some

external phenomena, the field of experience is

merely re-consigned or

transformed.  Any and all activities thus (eventually)

posit themselves into

the consciousness of Krishna.  In other words,

consider the above Sanskrit

phrase as:

 

'tat kurusva mad arpanam - ARE an offering to me'

 

As Sanskrit is understood here, 'kurusva' is the

second singular imperative of the root kri, that is,

make! or do! So, second half of Gita verse 9, 27

can be taken to mean roughly:

Whatever austerities you perform, make that as an

offering to me.

Your point is well-taken that one has to walk a very

fine line in following non-attachment, in making an

offering to the Lord, to avoid the pitfalls of DOING.

It involves a subtle inner effort to dedicate one's

efforts back to the source of all.

At the same time, one must respect the integrity of

the Sanskrita pada. Be wary of using your

magnificent manas/ discursive mind to make the

Sanskrita fit what you think the text is saying. it is

far better to reflect on the verse BG 9,27--abandoning

all ideas and preconceptions of what it means,

going back again and again to the Sanskrita, so that

the deeper spiritual significance may be allowed to

emerge. Otherwise, the snare of "doing" may well

be encountered even in reading the Scriptures.

Claims and 'doing" may creep into our discussion of

practicing non-attachment.

Shanti,

Kenneth

 

 

---------------

Get the award winning ISP, AT&T WorldNet Service

http://download.att.net/webtag

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

 

How about heroic self sacrifice in war in the name of God (Allah)

or "Jihad" in Islam, is it attachment or non-attachment work?

Sincerelly i need your comments so i will have more understanding.

 

Thanks

 

Love

 

Herry Ermawan

 

advaitin, kvlarsen@w... wrote:

> Namaste,

> 'tat kurusva mad arpanam - DO THAT as an offering

> to me'

> Kenneth