Brahman Or Atman (Conciousness) is not an effect..But...

[Guest guest]

Sashtanga pranaams to All,

 

We all know that Conciousness is not an effect and it does not depend

on anything at All and it is swayam siddham.

But in real life we see instances where people lose their memories or

their awareness if they have some head injuries affecting the brain

and there are also cases wherein those people have regained back

their awareness back after taking prolonged medication or

treatment.So in this case conciousness seems to depend on the

material.With the loss of brain cells or an injury it is lost and

with medication it is regained!!

 

Continuing the same topic I want to know when exatcly conciousness

materialises in the womb and why should it go when the body is

fatally injured? Does it mean that it needs a trouble free body to

manifest?

I request scholars to kindly forgive my pertinance and bless me with

some Vedantic explaination on this.

 

Om Tat Sat

Suresh

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

Let me give a quick answer and some learned members will provide you

with more detailed explanations.

 

First, you started your posting beautifully and defined Consciousness

as 'swayam siddham.' Your next statement began with the doubt - how to

relate and understand Consciousness with respect to 'real life.' When

this doubt arises, we should focus our attention on 'What is real?.'

Who is that asking these questions? Who is observing and what is being

observed? Why does that which appear, later disappear?

 

When we have the conviction, that Consciousness is not an effect, it

has to be responsible which include - the observer, the observations

including appearance and disappearance of objects such as brain, brain

cells, injuries, causes of those injuries and the consequences of

those injuries, etc., etc. With this understanding, your beautiful

summarization of Consciousness as being 'swayam siddham' holds strong

and clear!

 

Consciousness has neither beginning, nor it has an ending, because it

is eternal! Everything else that we observe and hypothesize are based

on our illusory creations which will eventually disappear when

get the Vedantic Wisdom of the 'swayam siddham!'

 

Our problem is that we have clear understanding of the

'reality at the paramarthika (absolute) level' but we tend quickly

move to the reality 'vyavahara (relative) level' and entertain

confusions. Our doubts are our own creation and when we master the art

of no creation, we can jump from the vyavahara level to the

paramarthika level.

 

warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

 

advaitin, "sureshsmr" <sureshsmr@h...> wrote:

> Sashtanga pranaams to All,

>

> We all know that Conciousness is not an effect and it does not

depend

> on anything at All and it is swayam siddham.

> But in real life we see instances where people lose their memories

or

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

First of all, I am not a scholar. Scriptures, teachers and

contemplation have been helpful when I have had doubts like yours.

If my thoughts below (which may have flaws) are of any use to you, I

will be more than happy.

 

Let us suppose you have a pain on your knee. You know the pain or are

conscious of the pain. Try to know the pain "as it is", as just pain

alone, an experience. You find that this requires effort, because

the knee comes into the picture without invitation. Then the pain

becomes "knee pain". You are not even looking at the knee. Still,

with the pain the "knee image" remains merged or embedded.

 

Now think of another part of your body, say, the right foot. The

picture of the right foot lights up on the mind's screen. At that

fraction of a moment, the "pain with the knee image" is not there.

There is only the "right foot thought". When the pain returns to the

forefront, the "right foot thought" disappears.

 

Now, who has the keen pain? Answer: I…. Oh, no, my body.

The "body" comes into the picture. The "body thought" flashes on the

mind's screen. It is just a thought. Even this image on the mind's

screen is not of the "actual body" of that moment, which actually is

attired in white, whereas the "body thought" is robed in blue – a

memory of some previous image of the body! Have you ever known your

body in full? Answer: No. I have only had a general awareness of

it! Whenever, I have seen it, I have seen it only in parts! When I

saw the right thumb, I was not aware of the rest of the body. When I

saw my left knee, I was aware only of my left knee – that too a

particular spot of concern on that knee. My "whole body awareness"

has always been a thought. A thought? Yes. A thought! Who was

thinking? The thought was lighted up where? Who lighted up? Asking

such questions is Vedanta.

 

Please ask, Sureshji. Your doubts will be answered.

 

Let us keep asking. During the hours you are awake in a day of 24

hours, for how long do you have this "general body awareness?

Difficult to answer? Without any appearance inadequacy, you will have

to admit, you never have the "body thought" for more than a very very

small fraction of your waking hours. Even if you have an appearance

inadequacy, you are only aware of that inadeqacy. Not the body. So,

most of the time, you have been existing without a body? Yes. That

appears to be the truth. You have only been shining. Shining in all

your thoughts, in all that you experienced, in the sun, the moon, the

milky way!

 

So, why do you ask the question: "When exactly consciousness

materializes in the womb?"? It should be the other way round. When

did this body materialize in consciousness? Then, consciousness

preceded the body? Yes. That is the obvious answer. It preceded

everything – nay – nothing can be there without Consciousness.

Consciousness IS. Womb, brain, body, birth, death, anaesthetist,

anaesthesia (local as well as general), loss of memory, medications,

diseases, cures, brain cells, brain injury, states of

unconsciousness and deep sleep, Shri Suresh, his raising this

question in Advaitin, etc. etc. are all thoughts just reflected

there. Take your "eyes" of them. You remain. And that is

Consciousness – You with a capital "Y".

 

Imagine a nuclear explosion. Life on earth is completely wiped out.

Will the barren earth, the solar system, the stars, galaxies – the

universe – remain? If your answer is "yes", (I am sure you cannot

answer differently!), then some "intelligence" should remain to

witness it. That "intelligence", please know, has always been

there, will always be there and IS there! THAT IS THE ONLY THING

THERE! SOHAM!

 

Thanks for this opportunity.

 

Pranams.

 

Madathil Nair

 

_____

 

advaitin, "sureshsmr" <sureshsmr@h...> wrote:

> Sashtanga pranaams to All,

>

> We all know that Conciousness is not an effect and it does not

depend

> on anything at All and it is swayam siddham.

> But in real life we see instances where people lose their memories

or

> their awareness if they have some head injuries affecting the brain

> and there are also cases wherein those people have regained back

> their awareness back after taking prolonged medication or

> treatment.So in this case conciousness seems to depend on the

> material.With the loss of brain cells or an injury it is lost and

> with medication it is regained!!

>

> Continuing the same topic I want to know when exatcly conciousness

> materialises in the womb and why should it go when the body is

> fatally injured? Does it mean that it needs a trouble free body to

> manifest?

> I request scholars to kindly forgive my pertinance and bless me

with

> some Vedantic explaination on this.

>

> Om Tat Sat

> Suresh

[Guest guest]

greetings,

 

there are different levels of understanding the source of who

we are, when consciousness is identified with being a INDIVIDUAL body, the

term for such a identified consciousness is jiva. when it starts to

understand itself as the subtle body it can be called as atman, when this

atman recognizes itself as the witness and this witness is non personal and

is the same in all then consciousness is termed Brahman, pure knowledge, but

even this is a covering on the absolute truth, when finally we cease to put

any names or forms on SELF we arrive at our true source PARABRAHMAN[beyond

Brahman].

 

you can ask yourself what happens to consciousness[awareness] in deep sleep,

there being nothing to be aware of the witness dissolves back into reality

SELF, which in its absolute nature has no awareness of ITSELF because there

is ONLY SELF, no dualality to be aware of anything else,beyond the concept

of oneness. this SELF IS ALWAYS OUR TRUE SELF EVEN NOW, WE HAVE JUST BECOME

LOST IN NAMES AND FORMS THIS IS THE IGNORANCE OF TAKING THE ROPE TO BE A

SNAKE. REMOVE THE IGNORANCE WITH CORRECT KNOWLEDGE AND FINALLY DISREGARD THE

KNOWLEDGE AND YOU AS THE TRUE SUN SELF WILL BLAZE CLEARLY AND REALIZE YOU

HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THE SUN SELF.

 

YOURS TRULY JAYA

 

 

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.344 / Virus Database: 191 - Release 2/04/2002