Free Will and determinism in advaita and science

[Guest guest]

HI friend:About the free will and determinism I find this quote from

Benjamin Libet:"Freely voluntary acts are preceded by a specific

electrical change in

the brain (the 'readiness potential', RP) that begins 550 ms before

the act. Human subjects became aware of intention to act 350-400 ms

after RP starts, but 200 ms. before the motor act. The volitional

process is therefore initiated unconsciously. The conscious function

could't control the outcome; it can't veto the act. Free will is

therefore excluded. These findings put constraints on our views of

the

free will versus determinism dilema. The findings also affect views

of guilt and

responsibility. But the deeper question still remains: Who's will.The

advaita answer "God" will".The "science" answer "genes and

conditioning by society".There's a semantic problem here,why no

simple action happening through "apparent body/minds organisms" with

no entities involved?Only "apparent acts" like in a dream?.Who have

the free will in a dream drama?Who is the one determined by who'm?

That the true question,and there is "nobody"to answer it.The seeking

[of the true answer]is going all the time but there is no

seeker.The "who" is merely an imagined concept that is happenig.There

is no who and there is no what to be sought.Do "you" still want to

solve the dilema of free will versus determinism?"Relax" no way for

a "you".Regards, atagrasin

[Guest guest]

Shree atagrasin - as a scientist I question the

conclusions from the observations. The studies does

not establish the sufficiency condition. For that if

one initiates 550 ms RP potential and one is led to

act on that basis of the potential differnece then it

establishes the sufficiency condition and the

conclusions are correct. Otherwise it is by products

of the action only and not basis to make valid

conclusions.

 

Of course from Vedanata point free will exist or not

depends on the reference state - From the point of

Brahman - or state zero- there is no free will - since

Brahma is beyond all that. From state 1, or reference

state of vyavahaara - the free will is with in the

realm of cause and effect. There is purushaartha and

there is prarabda. all valid with in that reference.

The RP potentials are within the realm of vyavahaara.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

--- atagrasin <k1c2 wrote:

> HI friend:About the free will and determinism I find

> this quote from

> Benjamin Libet Relax" no way for

> a "you".Regards, atagrasin

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

advaitin, kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada>

wrote:

>

> Shree atagrasin - as a scientist I question the

> conclusions from the observations. The studies does

> not establish the sufficiency condition. For that if

> one initiates 550 ms RP potential and one is led to

> act on that basis of the potential differnece then it

> establishes the sufficiency condition and the

> conclusions are correct. Otherwise it is by products

> of the action only and not basis to make valid

> conclusions.

>

> Of course from Vedanata point free will exist or not

> depends on the reference state - From the point of

> Brahman - or state zero- there is no free will - since

> Brahma is beyond all that. From state 1, or reference

> state of vyavahaara - the free will is with in the

> realm of cause and effect. There is purushaartha and

> there is prarabda. all valid with in that reference.

> The RP potentials are within the realm of vyavahaara.

HI MR Sadananda:Free will in any reference state is only an

illusion."You" think you have choice but how much choice you have?The

whole point is ,you say you chose path A or path B.What do you really

do when you chose A or B?What happen when you say,"I'm going to go

along path B?IT is really a thought which comes to you,isn't it?The

whole process is a thought come ,get vocalized,and then actualized in

action.But YOU CAN NOT WILL A THOUGHT>.If you can't will a thought

how can you pretend to have free will?IT seem you don't understand Mr

libet experiments:He has show that before an action occurs,there is a

spike in the electrocardiogram record a signal.This signal indicates

when a decision was made.According to Libet findings the signal

occurs about HALF-SECOND before the become concious of that

decision,but the person think that it was his or her decision while

in facts it was already made before he or she became aware of the

decision.So LIBET finding s underscore what True advaita is saying

all along:WE ARE NOT THE DOERS OF OUR DEEDS OR THINKER OF OUR

THOUGHT.You wrote you question this findings but the understanding of

this is not in your hands,the understanding happen or not happen.You

wrote "the free will is with in the realm of cause and effect"This is

a contradiction, do you know the Bell's theorem?There is not local

causes.Advaita means NON-DUAL.Cause and effect is only a concept of

the mind to try to explain the inexplainable.There is a good

book "The ashtavakra Gita" that can help to dispell the "free will"

and the "cause and effect" myth. Regards atagrasin