Guest guest Posted May 7, 2002 Report Share Posted May 7, 2002 Psychology and Metaphysics 11 The Human Sciences as Hermeneutic Sciences We have noted that genuine psychology can be practiced only as Hermeneutic Science and whichis a science concerned with the SEEING. This is Human Science and has been the central feature of what transpires as the Yoga Sciences in India and has been there from the Sumerian times. It includes the positivistic or the MATHETICAL within one of the ways of seeing viz. the physicalistic and only with data that is made available through the senses. This is one of my possibilities for SEEING and when I get trapped within it , I become a NATURAL SCIENTIST where my self is made to be the Purely Observer Self and hence simulataneously BLIND to my other essences. The advantage is that all those who assume the posture of this Observer Self, by virtue of that become OBJECTIVE in the sense that they allow only the FACTS determine their propositions and hence allow the possibility of being cross checked by others. They allow by virtue of this intersubjective confirmation of refutation and hence thereby science that avoids the intrusions of the various prejudices of the self. However when I range upon all my possibilities -- that I can be prejudiced, very racial and irrational, megalomaniac, seeking to convert others to my way and thus enslave others, indulge in ego-inflation exercises in which I propose Aryanism and twist and turn every historical fact to show the Aryan superiority , become intoxicated with a certain scripture and assert that it contains the TRUTH and hence all should SUBMIT to it or made to submit to it with threat of death and so forth, we begin to see that the SELF can be more that the Pure Observer Self. When we ponder at all these possibilities the self is capable of then it dawns that the TRUE SELF is in fact something different from all these manifest selves and that is what I want to be, am in fact. And with this begins another kind of existence for me : my SEEING has become Hermeneutic where the different ways of my Being in the world becomes the TEXT that I read to understand it. This self as a TEXT is the founding notion of the study of myself in a scientific way in which I am OBJECTIVE in a different sense and in which I discover my essential ethicality. TEXT Duality of Structure and Ethics My self as TEXT has a duality of structure -- the Phenomenal Self that assumes the various ways of Being-in-the -World and which constitutes the EXISTENCE, and Deeper Self that remains my essence and which is quite often in conflict with the phenomenal presentations. My self as a TEXT has the Surface Structure that is the manifest self and Deep Structure that's the Umanifest and perhaps the IDEAL Self. Really I don't want to be a fanatic, a racialist, the ideologically intoxicated and mad, one who indulges forever in self adulations, pretend to be a messiah, cheat the world as the god-man by adorning with Saffron robes and other paraphernalia and so on and on. Thus I notice that there is an INNER CONFLICT between my so many manifest selves and my TRUE SELF and all these as naturally occurring within an inner dynamics that prevails within myself. I am in inner conflict not because of some Sadguru or Messiah or Scripture and so forth but because that is how I am configured to be in the world. In other words I notice that I am ETHICAL, there is a MORAL dimension to my EXISTENCE. In every praxis of my daily life in which I realize one of my possibilities for Being-in-the-World I am assailed as if from nowhere by this ethical sense. After effecting an action - setting to fire a row of Islamic shops or Hindu temples or Protestant churches, bombing the Shiah mosque and killing many including children , or invading another country in defence of my religion, or ideology -- I sit back and reflect on what I have done. When I am able to see them as BEASTLY, as Supremely Criminal, totally in inhuman etc. I become another Asoka -- I give up those ways of Being and with great remorse REPENT and REPENT spending the rest my life to undo all the EVILS I have done. This is an interesting phase of my development, a conversion of a kind. For I notice that I am essentially ETHICAL -- there is an INNER SELF that wants to do only the PuNNiyam, the essentially ethical and avoid the Paavam, the evil and ignoble. This Evil Prone Self is polluted, dirty, despicable, ignorant , impure, lowly etc. etc. and that my ESSENCE is NOT these at all. My essence is PURITY, the Suddham and NOT the Asuddham, Nimalam and NOT Malam. But how is that I am ethical? Certainly not because someone taught me or I belong to a religious group, follow the ways of the Almighty Sankaracarya, the Jagadguru, or execute my praxis as the Karma Yogi in accordance with Gita or have memorized the aphorisms of the immortal VaLLuvar and what not. All these become relevant only because I am ALREADY ethical, and in that tend to AVOID the evil and execute only the Good. This is what I AM already, this essence of myself belongs to my PRESENCE in the world My Hermeneutic way of seeing has unfolded a puzzle about me. I am essentially ethical and that because nobody in the world has taught me to be so. It is a competence I have just like the linguistic competence, a potentiality, to discriminate the RIGHT from the WRONG , avoid the wrong and persist only in the right and the good. Of course there are hundreds and thousands of nonaverage individuals who would seize upon this competence I have and TRAP me into what they see as the Good , the evil etc. They have their OWN INTERPRETATIONS and they pretending to be walking gods want to enslave me into their ethical value systems and follow them unquestioningly. These value systems are God given they say, and so do not transgress they admonish. Sometimes such as advise is meant well especially for the intellectually weak. At the absence of the mental ability to look at self as a TEXT and SEE the DEEP SELF within that is PURE etc., perhaps such an advise is the best but only as heuristics. But when this whole attitude is extended to ALL and through that SUFFOCATE free inquiry then it becomes UNETHICAL in itself and hence something that gets opposed or something that OUGHT to be opposed at whatever cost. I find myself to be such a rebellious individual , one who cannot be imprisoned into a set of value systems promulgated as God given as in the Vedas, Bible Alkoran and so forth. I am ethical NOT because of these books but because that's my essence. But why this essence? In my presence in the world why am I DUAL, Suddham and Asuddham? We shall take it up next. ( to continue) 11 ======================================================= Dear friends! You are most welcome to visit the following websites I maintain: For World Saivism : http://ulagan.tripod.com/index.htm For Dravidian Philosophy: http://loga.tripod.com/tindex.htm For Agamic Psychology : http://ulagank.tripod.com/agapsyindex.htm For ArutkuRaL studies: http://arutkuraL.tripod.com/index.html For studies of Tamil Sacred scriptures in English: http://arutkuraL.tripod.com/tmcampus/tmc-open.html For SumeroTamil and related studies: http://arutkuraL.tripod.com/sumstudies/sumcampus.html ======================================================= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2002 Report Share Posted May 7, 2002 Vanakkam Dr Loga Thanks for the interesting presentation. I agree with you that we don't need scriptures to determine Ethics. Just wanted to tell you that I am reading all your posts and looking forward to your next post. I hope to see more Advaita or Vedanta related information in it. Thank you sir. Kathi > > Dr.K.Loganathan [sMTP:subas] > Wednesday, May 08, 2002 10:45 AM > akandabaratam > Cc: IndianCivilization ; WaveS-Vedic ; > agamicpsychology ; advaitin > Psychology and Metaphysics-11 > > Psychology and Metaphysics 11 > > > The Human Sciences as Hermeneutic Sciences > > We have noted that genuine psychology can be practiced only as Hermeneutic > Science and whichis a science concerned with the SEEING. This is Human > Science and has been the central feature of what transpires as the Yoga > Sciences in India and has been there from the Sumerian times. It includes > the positivistic or the MATHETICAL within one of the ways of seeing viz. > the physicalistic and only with data that is made available through the > senses. This is one of my possibilities for SEEING and when I get trapped > within it , I become a NATURAL SCIENTIST where my self is made to be the > Purely Observer Self and hence simulataneously BLIND to my other > essences. The advantage is that all those who assume the posture of this > Observer Self, by virtue of that become OBJECTIVE in the sense that they > allow only the FACTS determine their propositions and hence allow the > possibility of being cross checked by others. They allow by virtue of this > intersubjective confirmation of refutation and hence thereby science that > avoids the intrusions of the various prejudices of the self. > > However when I range upon all my possibilities -- that I can be > prejudiced, very racial and irrational, megalomaniac, seeking to convert > others to my way and thus enslave others, indulge in ego-inflation > exercises in which I propose Aryanism and twist and turn every historical > fact to show the Aryan superiority , become intoxicated with a certain > scripture and assert that it contains the TRUTH and hence all should > SUBMIT to it or made to submit to it with threat of death and so forth, we > begin to see that the SELF can be more that the Pure Observer Self. When > we ponder at all these possibilities the self is capable of then it dawns > that the > TRUE SELF is in fact something different from all these manifest selves > and that is what I want to be, am in fact. And with this begins another > kind of existence for me : my SEEING has become Hermeneutic where the > different ways of my Being in the world becomes the TEXT that I read to > understand it. This self as a TEXT is the founding notion of the study of > myself in a scientific way in which I am OBJECTIVE in a different sense > and in which I discover my essential ethicality. > > TEXT Duality of Structure and Ethics > > My self as TEXT has a duality of structure -- the Phenomenal Self that > assumes the various ways of Being-in-the -World and which constitutes the > EXISTENCE, and Deeper Self that remains my essence and which is quite > often in conflict with the phenomenal presentations. My self as a TEXT has > the Surface Structure that is the manifest self and Deep Structure that's > the Umanifest and perhaps the IDEAL Self. Really I don't want to be a > fanatic, a racialist, the ideologically intoxicated and mad, one who > indulges forever in self adulations, pretend to be a messiah, cheat the > world as the god-man by adorning with Saffron robes and other > paraphernalia and so on and on. Thus I notice that there is an INNER > CONFLICT between my so many manifest selves and my TRUE SELF and all these > as naturally occurring within an inner dynamics that prevails within > myself. I am in inner conflict not because of some Sadguru or Messiah or > Scripture and so forth but because that is how I am configure! > d to be in the world. > > In other words I notice that I am ETHICAL, there is a MORAL dimension to > my EXISTENCE. In every praxis of my daily life in which I realize one of > my possibilities for Being-in-the-World I am assailed as if from nowhere > by this ethical sense. After effecting an action - setting to fire a row > of Islamic shops or Hindu temples or Protestant churches, bombing the > Shiah mosque and killing many including children , or invading another > country in defence of my religion, or ideology -- I sit back and reflect > on what I have done. When I am able to see them as BEASTLY, as Supremely > Criminal, totally in inhuman etc. I become another Asoka -- > I give up those ways of Being and with great remorse REPENT and REPENT > spending the rest my life to undo all the EVILS I have done. > > This is an interesting phase of my development, a conversion of a kind. > For I notice that I am essentially ETHICAL -- there is an INNER SELF that > wants to do only the PuNNiyam, the essentially ethical and avoid the > Paavam, the evil and ignoble. This Evil Prone Self is polluted, dirty, > despicable, ignorant , impure, lowly etc. etc. and that my ESSENCE is NOT > these at all. My essence is PURITY, the Suddham and NOT the Asuddham, > Nimalam and NOT Malam. > > But how is that I am ethical? > > Certainly not because someone taught me or I belong to a religious group, > follow the ways of the Almighty Sankaracarya, the Jagadguru, or execute my > praxis as the Karma Yogi in accordance with Gita or have memorized the > aphorisms of the immortal VaLLuvar and what not. All these become relevant > only because I am ALREADY ethical, and in that tend to AVOID the evil and > execute only the Good. This is what I AM already, this essence of myself > belongs to my PRESENCE in the world > > My Hermeneutic way of seeing has unfolded a puzzle about me. I am > essentially ethical and that because nobody in the world has taught me to > be so. It is a competence I have just like the linguistic competence, a > potentiality, to discriminate the RIGHT from the WRONG , avoid the wrong > and persist only in the right and the good. Of course there are hundreds > and thousands of nonaverage individuals who would seize upon this > competence I have and TRAP me into what they see as the Good , the evil > etc. They have their OWN INTERPRETATIONS and they pretending to be walking > gods want to enslave me into their ethical value systems and follow them > unquestioningly. These value systems are God given they say, and so do not > > transgress they admonish. > > Sometimes such as advise is meant well especially for the intellectually > weak. At the absence of the mental ability to look at self as a TEXT and > SEE the DEEP SELF within that is PURE etc., perhaps such an advise is the > best but only as heuristics. But when this whole attitude is extended to > ALL and through that SUFFOCATE free inquiry then it becomes UNETHICAL in > itself and hence something that gets opposed or something that OUGHT to be > opposed at whatever cost. > > I find myself to be such a rebellious individual , one who cannot be > imprisoned into a set of value systems promulgated as God given as in the > Vedas, Bible Alkoran and so forth. I am ethical NOT because of these books > but because that's my essence. > > But why this essence? In my presence in the world why am I DUAL, Suddham > and Asuddham? > > We shall take it up next. > > ( to continue) 11 ======================================================= > Dear friends! You are most welcome to visit the following websites I > maintain: > > For World Saivism : > http://ulagan.tripod.com/index.htm > For Dravidian Philosophy: > http://loga.tripod.com/tindex.htm > For Agamic Psychology : > http://ulagank.tripod.com/agapsyindex.htm > For ArutkuRaL studies: > http://arutkuraL.tripod.com/index.html > For studies of Tamil Sacred scriptures in > English: > http://arutkuraL.tripod.com/tmcampus/tmc-open.html > For SumeroTamil and related studies: > http://arutkuraL.tripod.com/sumstudies/sumcampus.html > > ======================================================= > > > > > > Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of > Atman and Brahman. > Advaitin List Archives available at: > http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > To Post a message send an email to : advaitin > Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages > > > > Your use of is subject to > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2002 Report Share Posted May 8, 2002 Dear Kathiresan. Glad to hear you find my postings interesting and in a way stimulating. But you should know by now that I am NOT trying to expound Adavaita Vedanta or anything like that. I am exploring as an autonomous individual into TRUTH. Of course if it happens to stimulate you into thinking more about Adavaita Vedanta and so forth,. I am doubly happy. The Indian phuilosophical thinking has become a dead wood , fossilized into the various schools of thought and repetitive. I hope such writings as these will bring the spirit of adventure and free inquiry that philosophy needs. Loga K Kathirasan NCS wrote: > Vanakkam Dr Loga > > Thanks for the interesting presentation. I agree with you that we don't need > scriptures to determine Ethics. > > Just wanted to tell you that I am reading all your posts and looking forward > to your next post. I hope to see more Advaita or Vedanta related information > in it. Thank you sir. > > Kathi > > > > > Dr.K.Loganathan [sMTP:subas] > > Wednesday, May 08, 2002 10:45 AM > > To: akandabaratam > > Cc: IndianCivilization ; WaveS-Vedic ; > > agamicpsychology ; advaitin > > Subject: Psychology and Metaphysics-11 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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