Mystical experiences and Self-Realization

[Guest guest]

Thank you for making this important point as it highlights the difference in

orientation between the Advaita path and Yoga, at least in its initial

stages. Although great sages such as Sri Ramana have said many times that

all mental and psychic experiences and phenomena fall short of

Self-Realization, people are attracted to such things due to inherent and

normal human tendencies (vasanas). The desire to have mental and higher

spiritual experiences and siddhis is fundamentally no different than desire

for wealth, sensuality, power, etc. All such things have the ego as their

base, which in essence is the root desire to hold on to identity (or body in

subtle or gross form). That is not a bad thing. Desire is not a bad thing in

itself. It is what it is. All people who take up the spiritual path

experience a variety of things.

 

Sri Ramana used to say that in sages who have realized pure consciousness as

their nature, even the most intense spiritual and psychic experiences and

phenomena do not make a ripple. Whereas a rock dropped in the ocean has

hardly any effect, the same rock when it falls into a small pond makes huge

waves.

 

This should not be taken as criticism of those who pursue siddhis, take

delight in such experiences, and all such things. Why should they not follow

their own nature? People eat the food they wish, pursue happiness in some

form, and fulfill the desires they have because that is the nature of

things.

 

In the beginning (see Ganapati Muni's statement), it is much easier to visit

all the celestial planes and have visionary experiences then to simply abide

in the Heart as Self. At the end, one does not wish to go anywhere at all. I

recall that Ramana Maharshi said one time that he was curious about siddhis

and other planes and such things, but something in him always said, not

there but "Here", meaning the Heart, where the consciousness abides in its

own nature.

 

Certain things did happen and siddhis manifested even with Sri Ramana. But

these were spontaneous events.

 

Love to all

Harsha

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anand Natarajan [harihara.geo]

Thursday, April 04, 2002 9:03 AM

advaitin

Re: Burning Triangle - An Experiment

 

 

In the book, "In days of Great Peace" written by a

western devotee of Sri Ramana Maharshi, there are

accounts of mystical experiences the author went

through in places such as you mentioned. However, the

author clearly says that none of these ever gave him

any lasting peace nor realization. He eventually was

drawn towards Sri Ramana Ashram where he spent 9

months during the last mortal days of Sri Ramana

Maharshi where he realized the Advatic experience

fully.

 

Regards,

Anand

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Harsha" wrote:

. . . The desire to have mental and higher

> spiritual experiences and siddhis is fundamentally no different than desire

> for wealth, sensuality, power, etc. All such things have the ego as their

> base, which in essence is the root desire to hold on to identity (or body

in

> subtle or gross form). That is not a bad thing. Desire is not a bad thing

in

> itself. It is what it is. All people who take up the spiritual path

> experience a variety of things. . . .

 

The one who has no desire to witness 'mental and higher spiritual experiences

and siddhis', indeed, must be either half dead relative to the natural

tendencies of lively sakti flows or is simply skirting around to avoid some

more fundamental issues. If there is no ego on this issue, then one is no

longer in this lively world of duality, whether that may mean that one has

achieved release and liberation or whether it means that one is still stuck

in the gross inertia of darkness, without a 'clue' so to speak.

 

To say, or even think, that spontaneous siddhi activity implies some sort of

'hindrance' to one's overall growth responses is simply not correct, quite

the contrary. Many continue to insinuate (certainly not the above reference)

that siddhi type things are 'bad' in some way or other, but this probably

best reflects being hurt because of the lack of experiences themselves, by

those who may so insinuate.

 

In addition, having spontaneous siddhi activity is usually just that,

something very spontaneous while in a state of relative joy and bliss,

looking for the more subtle laws of the universe, one way or the other.

Something like the motivations of a deeply committed scientist, looking deep

into unknown territories, and something that is available to all. The

'desire', if we are allowed to still use this word as the ego is really not

much involved, is rather more of a spontaneous self-propelling empathetic

urge and irresistible movement (sponsored by Self rather than self). It is a

true being in the moment while heavier doses of sakti may be flowing. It

doesn't happen by an ego's willful planning; it happens while one is floating

somewhere between the realms of transcendent and duality. It's not an ego

that 'masterminds' such an experience; it is the ego which is dropped-off and

given over to the spontaneous irresistible flowings of joy that allow for the

possibility of such a siddhi event.

 

So, those who pooh, pooh such siddhi events are simply swimming in their own

circular steadfast fixations in duality. Such experiential events are

beautiful. They give new insight into the vastness and diversity of the

universe, and they give rise to a better understanding of how its subtle laws

(as per physics) may be operating. The lord, and/or god, and/or our creator,

and/or subtle intelligence, call it what you will, can be seen with more

subtlety. So on the one hand, we may have a great philosophy like advaita,

yet with the other hand we still want to intercede to limit the allowance of

personal experience to further delineate the philosophy itself, and indeed,

to jump out of the philosophy to the very essence of the words themselves.

 

jai guru dev,

 

Edmond Chouinard

edmeasure