Deep sleep state

[Guest guest]

praNAm Nair prabhuji

Hare krishna,

 

Could you pls. tell me the origin of this stotram. Normally we pray in the

morning *karAgre vasate lakshmi........ prabhate kara darshanam* or

*pratah smarami sri lalita vadanAravindam* etc. etc. the stotram which you

have quoted, sofar I have not come across in my collections, hence this

query. Is it from daksSinamUrty stotram pls. clarify, if possible a rough

traslation in english would be preferred. Thanks in advance.

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

 

 

 

(Embedded K Kathirasan NCS <kkathir

image moved 06/06/2002 07:20 AM

to file:

pic31928.pcx)

 

 

 

 

 

Please respond to advaitin

 

advaitin

cc:

RE: Re: Deep Sleep State

 

Security Level:? Internal

 

 

Namaste

 

In the Tattva Bodha too, it appears as 'avasthaatraya saakshi'. So Turiya

is

indeed the witness of the 3 experiential states permeating the three.

Regards.

>

> madathilnair [sMTP:madathilnair]

> Thursday, June 06, 2002 2:15 PM

> advaitin

> Re: Deep Sleep State

>

> Namaste,

>

> My opinion is based on the term "avasthaathrayam" repeated frequently

> in vedanta and by Sankara, and reinforced by the following daily

> prayer that most of us chant in the morning:

>

> Praathasmaraami hridi samsphurathaathma thathwam

> Sachchithsukham Pramahamsagathim Thureeeyam

> Yathswapnajaagarasushupthamavaithi nithyam

> Thath brahmanishkalamaham na cha boothasanghah

>

> Pranams.

>

> Madathil Nair

> _______________________

>

> advaitin, "sunderh" <sunderh> wrote:

> > Namaste,

> >

> > Perhaps there is a better translation for the

> > word 'turyAvasthA' which is used in several upanishads.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Sunder

> >

>

>

>

>

> Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of

> Atman and Brahman.

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>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

 

Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of

Atman and Brahman.

Advaitin List Archives available at:

http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/

To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

 

 

 

Your use of is subject to

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

Edmondji, thanks for your prolific comments.

 

However, I am afraid this discussion is going a little out of hand.

My immediate objective was a re-look at prathyabhigna and if advaitic

understanding can sustain without it. While I am personally convinced

repeat personally convinced that one can continue to be an advaitin

without acknowledging prathyabhigna, I have also realized, helped by

the feedback received through this List, that my conviction cannot be

established beyond doubt, because the requisite experimental

conditions are too hard to be simulated.

 

I like to read about the NASA studies, unexplained phenomena, UFOs,

Moulder, Skulley (sp) et al. Aren't they all part of the great

Leela? If UFOs become "reality" tomorrow, as an advaitin I would not

be surprised. I would simply "know" that I have projected them. Is

there a borderline between the known and unknown for an advaitin?

 

Pranams.

 

Madathil Nair

______________________________

 

 

 

advaitin, edmeasure@a... wrote:

> > Regarding the ongoing discussion about the astronaut's (non-)

experience of

> > deep sleep in space:

> >

> > I understand what you are getting at, Madathilji, but is it not

possible to

> > establish what actually happens in a situation such as this? What

you

> > describe is a state of sensory deprivation and there have been

many

> > experiments conducted on this.

>

> Harvard did a big study on such things quite a while back. Folks

were

> isolated in a chamber completely devoid of outside influences, no

windows,

> noises, radio, TV, etc. Environmental temperatures were kept warm

and

> constant. Their sleep cycles were quickly disrupted from the normal

24-hour

> cycle and eventually they became quite disoriented.

>

> NASA does have lots of info on such things, though, but they remain

ever so

> tight lipped about it all. Long ago, perhaps the moon visit or

thereabouts,

> one astronaut said spontaneously on public TV that he experienced

lots of

> every so tiny flashing lights about him during portions of the

trip. I tried

> to follow up on this but got cutoff along every step of the way.

>

> Long ago, Jose Silva, living in Texas near some major NASA

facilities, tried

> to dig in more, concerning other similar such things, which sounded

so very

> close to the experiences had by many folks with his 'Mind Control'

> techniques. He, of course, was quickly escorted out of NASA. Jose

Silva

> took a couple of basic Rosicrucian principles and developed some

amazing

> simple techniques, far exceeding what Rosicrucians had been doing,

which

> were/are absolutely phenomenal in the realm of yoga sutra type

activities,

> all with a turn of the century 6th grade school education in rural

Mexico.

> There are things long happening in the domains of subtle states of

> consciousness that are absolutely phenomenal and repeatable,

meeting all of

> the preliminary demands of any science, yet the worlds of

government, power,

> and academia continue to cringe and conspire in forceful revolt and

cover-up.

> Not too much different from the X-Files TV series. The power of

avidya.

[Guest guest]

Pranams friend,

 

Here it goes:

 

PRAATHAH SMARANAM

 

(Sree Sankara Bhagavadpaadaachaarya Kritham)

 

Praathah smaraami hridi samsphurathaathma thathwam

Sachchithsukham pramahamsagathim thureeeyam

Yathswapnajaagarasushupthamavaithi nithyam

Thath brahmanishkalamaham na cha boothasanghaha

 

Pratharbhajaami cha manovachasaamagamyam

Vaacho bibhanthi nikhila yadanugrahena

Yam nethi nethi vachanaih nigamaa avochan

Tham devadevamajamachyuthamaahuragryam

 

Praatharnamaami thamasah paramarkavarnam

Poornam sanaathanapadam purushothamaakhyam

Yasminnidam jagadaseshamaseshabhootham

Rajwaam bhujangama iva prathibhaasitham vai

 

(Shlokathrayamidam punyam lokathrayabibhooshanam

Praathahkaale patedyasthu sa gachcheth paramam padam)

 

I am not competent at translation. However, a rough translation, as

you say, would be:

 

1. At dawn, I recall the Self that lights up in the heart, the sat-

chit-aananda, the ultimate goal, thureeya, that which is timeless,

and which pervades the dream, waking, deep sleep states, which is

the unblemished Me, and which is not the other hosts of beings (that

I objectify).

 

2. At dawn, I worship (contemplate on) that which is inaccessible to

mind and words, by the grace of which all words shine, and which I

keep as the goal of "Nethi, Nethi" enquiry - that deva of all devas,

that unborn, that imperishable, who is at the end of everything.

 

3. At dawn, I prostrate before the One who is like the Sun at the

end of all darkness, who is full, everlasting and called the ultimate

being - by whom all this universe and all beings become manifest like

the delusion "of a snake on a rope".

 

(Kindly forgive me if there are errors.)

 

If a person can appreciate the truth of the above, he is already an

advaitin.

 

The other slokas you recite are extremely beautiful. Particularly,

Lalithaa Pancharathna which I also chant daily.

 

Pranaams again.

 

Madathil Nair

_______

 

 

 

advaitin, bhaskar.yr@i... wrote:

>

> Could you pls. tell me the origin of this stotram. Normally we

pray in the

> morning *karAgre vasate lakshmi........ prabhate kara darshanam* or

> *pratah smarami sri lalita vadanAravindam* etc. etc. the stotram

which you

> have quoted, sofar I have not come across in my collections, hence

this

> query. Is it from daksSinamUrty stotram pls. clarify, if possible

a rough

> traslation in english would be preferred. Thanks in advance.

[Guest guest]

praNAm Nair Prabhuji,

Hare Krishna

 

Thanks for your kind & immediate reply. I have 2 audio CDs containing

Shankara bhagavadpAda virachita stotrams recited by Swamy brahmananda of

Chinmaya mission, B.lore, surprisingly, this sloka is not appearing in

both of them. Anyway, pls. accept my humble praNAms once again for your

sincere efforts.

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/6/2002 7:01:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

kuntimaddisada writes:

 

> --- edmeasure wrote:

> On the

> > one hand, it is so easy to discern seven distinct

> > states of consciousness:

> > sleep, dream, waking, thuriya, cosmic, god, and

> > unity;

>

> According to Mandukya - there are only three distinct

> states - waking, dream and deep sleep states each

> idenfied very clearly. Turiiyaa in contrast to the

> three states is the true state that pervades the these

> three states. The states have been discussed

> exhaustively with the idea to provide a sadhak to

> indentify oneself with that state that pervades all

> the three states as the witnessing consciousenss of

> the three states.

>

> Yes. The rest ofcourse is the confusion in the waking

> state!

>

> Hari OM!

> Sadananda

> From Stockholm state!

> Hari

>

 

Yes, of course, you are quite right that Mandukya talks only about three

states of consciousness outside of turiya. As Vedanta provides more

analytical detail by adding a number of subtler striated sheaths to more

clearly discern different flavors of mixtures of the ever varying and

floating levels of conscious content, so too, others bring up notions like

cosmic, god, and unity consciousness, distinct states of discernment, after

the separate notions and delineated experiences of turiya are well

established. For instance:

 

Cosmic Consciousness -- the occasional beginning of the simultaneous

occurrence of the witness, turiya, while in full activity in waking state.

Turiya is suddenly very much more alive than usual, there witnessing the

activity being performed by the body. The notion of lila is experienced

mightily; ah, simply an actor acting on a stage. The experience can be a

little disconcerting in the beginning days, just because it is so new. The

lost innocence is starting to get reestablished.

 

God Consciousness -- here, the experiences of cosmic consciousness become

more settled and more usual, more of the time. Now something new begins to

emerge. Quite literally, the self, the witness, turiya, and the flower being

observed, are becoming one and the same, indeed a strange new experience,

again, something that happens sporadically in the beginning days. Such an

experience is not a cold, dead, intellectual postulate, as for instance, the

reading of Mandukya 7. It is a new reality with living dynamics that one

might hesitate to tell to a psychiatrist (i.e., to one who is not deeply

steeped and experienced with such advaita phenomena). This is why scripture,

sruti, is so very important -- to verify our new experiences. Literally,

from time to time, the seer, the process of seeing, and the seen become (are)

a single lively plasma-like interconnected subtle globule mass entity, so to

speak. Though we could/can easily settle on the initial four states;

sleeping, dreaming, waking, and turiya when we identify each separately, yet,

as turiya mixes with the substratum elements of the first three states,

proportionately in different flavors of permutations and combinations, viola,

the notions of cosmic and god consciousness spontaneously arise. So these

new (higher) states come about to be named only to specify certain types of

experiences that spontaneously arise. Again, some more jeweled viveka

activity.

 

These states are very significant, and if we cannot talk about them, we will

surely put them aside, repress and suppress them, out-of-sight, out-of-mind,

if and when they do pop up, just because they are so unique and unusual upon

first emerging. And I'll bet that some of this holy Sanskrit sruti

literature does really talk about these things also, but no translation is

available to bring it forward. I would ask the many experts on fundamental

advaita things to perhaps point out what scriptures might come close to

talking about such mixtures with turiya. I would love to dig in more deeply

on these points but moving about the original Sanskrit text is a

painstakingly slow and exhausting process for me. Therefore proper screening

and selectivity is necessary before starting. The question really becomes,

how can we translate to something which has no supporting experience in the

mind of the beholder? Literally, if the knowledge gets lost, how do we

recapture it? It takes a leap of blind faith, for again, it just does not

seem to work that we can pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps. Something

else is needed also, some deep subtle association with appropriate holy

traditions of assemblies of seen and unseen masters. Those who are connected

can initiate a new more subtle connection for us.

 

Unity Consciousness -- as the name implies, all of these sporadic phenomena

coming along in god consciousness become permanent, all the time. Not as a

prototype idea, but as a living reality, things are always meshed together

and seen as one. For instance, that empathy which one can easily have

about/upon the condition of another becomes permanent, and literally, part of

self. Jose Silva has some exquisite simple but most profound routines to

experience such phenomena. As another suffers, self suffers, because there

is no distinction once attention moves in the direction of the other. Yet

the suffering is not real in the sense of dreaded pain, but rather as another

flow of sakti, of soma, of grace. I can only speculate that Jesus was in

such a state of consciousness much or most of the time. It is now that

advaita truly becomes a living reality, all the while as we still walk around

in the real world, incognito, seemingly performing activities in duality.

 

jai guru dev,

 

Edmond

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

--- edmeasure wrote:

On the

> one hand, it is so easy to discern seven distinct

> states of consciousness:

> sleep, dream, waking, thuriya, cosmic, god, and

> unity;

 

According to Mandukya - there are only three distinct

states - waking, dream and deep sleep states each

idenfied very clearly. Turiiyaa in contrast to the

three states is the true state that pervades the these

three states. The states have been discussed

exhaustively with the idea to provide a sadhak to

indentify oneself with that state that pervades all

the three states as the witnessing consciousenss of

the three states.

 

Yes. The rest ofcourse is the confusion in the waking

state!

 

Hari OM!

Sadananda

>From Stockholm state!

Hari

 

 

 

- Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup

http://fifaworldcup.

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

Here is a Sandinavian study of Yoga Nidra:

 

http://www.scand-yoga.org/english/bindu/bindu11/pictures.html

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

 

advaitin, "Dennis Waite" <dwaite@d...> wrote:

> Subjective Experiences under Sensory Deprivations' Kazuki Iwata,

Mitsuaki

> Yamamoto, Mitsuyuki Nakao and Masayuki Kimura) made the following

statement:

> "In this case, the subject reported that she had deeply slept, and

had not

> perceived visual images. On the polysomnograph, delta waves were

> predominantly observed(Fig.2-b)."

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

These descriptions are scattered over the 'Yoga Upanishads',

(and not translated in full yet); also in a more concentrated form

in Yoga Vasishta . Some excerpts from the latter are at:

 

http://www.ramana-maharshi.org/vasishta.htm

 

http://sivaloka.tripod.com/YogaVasishtha.htm

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

 

>

>

> > --- edmeasure@a... wrote:

> > On the

> > > one hand, it is so easy to discern seven distinct

> > > states of consciousness:

> > > sleep, dream, waking, thuriya, cosmic, god, and

> > > unity;

>

[Guest guest]

advaitin, edmeasure@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 6/6/2002 7:01:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> kuntimaddisada writes:

>

>

> > --- edmeasure@a... wrote:

> > On the

> > > one hand, it is so easy to discern seven distinct

> > > states of consciousness:

> > > sleep, dream, waking, thuriya, cosmic, god, and

> > > unity;

> >

> > According to Mandukya - there are only three distinct

> > states - waking, dream and deep sleep states each

> > idenfied very clearly. Turiiyaa in contrast to the

> > three states is the true state that pervades the these

> > three states. The states have been discussed

> > exhaustively with the idea to provide a sadhak to

> > indentify oneself with that state that pervades all

> > the three states as the witnessing consciousenss of

> > the three states.

> >

 

Namaste All,

 

I will present my understanding of Mandukya upanishad here.

Comments are welcome.

 

Consider the tattvas as explained in the Shaiva darshana and

their relation with terms from Vedanta:

 

Paramashiva: The absolute truth.

This is the sat-chit-ananda state of Being.

 

For unknown reasons, the Being is the sat-chit-ananda state

slips into a state where it becomes aware of ananda as if

separate from itself. At this stage the pramashiva tattva

splits into two: sat-cit-ananda splits into sat-chit and ananda

 

sat-cit, which is the witness, sakshi of vedanta, is termed

Shiva tattva in Shaiva darshana.

 

ananda, is termed Shakti tattva in Shaiva darshana.

 

Now shakti is not homogenous but has subtle shades in it.

It is the curiosity of the Being to discern between these

subtle shades in shakti (ananda) that causes an amplification

of these shades within shakti and finally the universe

mainifests.

 

Mandukya upanishad is talking basically about stages of

manifestation.

 

Prajna is the state when manifestation has yet to

take place.

 

Taijasa is when the manifestion is apparently within.

 

Vaishvanara (vishwa + nara ?) is when the manifestation

is apparently outside.

 

Fourth state referred to is that of Shiva, the witness

which necessarily prevades the other three states.

(Prapancha refers to manifestion which is in form of

7 groups of five tattvas each, hence the name pra-pancha

the original five).

 

sat-chit-ananda state is not addressed by this upanishad.

(if it is, then I have missed it).

 

Best regards

Shrinivas Gadkari

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

Gaudapada and Shankara must have foreseen the difficulties in

figuring out the sat-chit-aananda in this upanishad to have written

the karikas and bhashya!

 

Mandukya upanishad :

 

mantra 1: = sat

OM iti etat aksharam idam sarvam

(AUM, the word is all this.)

----------

 

mantras 3, 4, 5 : = chit

 

mantras 3 :

jaagaritasthaanaH bahishhpraj~naH

 

mantra 4 :

svapnasthaanaH antaHpraj~naH

 

mantra 5:

sushhuptasthaana ekiibhuutaH praj~naanaghana eva

------------------

mantra 5: = aananda

aanandamayaH hi aanandabhuk

 

mantra 7 : = aananda

prapa~ncha upashamam shaantam shivam

--------------------

Karika III:47:

 

svasthaM shaantaM sanirvaaNaM sukham uttamam.h .

ajamajena j~neyena sarvaj~naM parichakshata ..

 

"This highest bliss is based upon the realisation of the Self, it is

peace, identical with liberation, indescribable and unborn. It is

further described as the omniscient Brahman, because it is one with

the unborn Self which is the object sought by Knowledge."

[sw. Nikhilananda]

 

 

 

 

 

advaitin, "sgadkari2001" <sgadkari2001> wrote:

>>

> sat-chit-ananda state is not addressed by this upanishad.

> (if it is, then I have missed it).

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

Aum is sat-chit-ananda. Then, how can that be missed as Maandukya is

an elaboration on pranava?

 

Aum ithi edath aksharam idam - represents the three states and,

therefore, necessarily, the substratum for the three - i.e. thuriya,

which is sat-chit-ananda. [idam is poornam and atha is also poornam

(Isavasyopanishad). As there can only be one poornam, idam (this- all

that is manifest)is atha (That - the unmanifest Truth)]. Hence, aum

is sat-chit-ananda in full. Aum is not "sat" alone, as I have read in

a subsequent comment, although 'sat' is chit and chit is ananda.

Maandukya is very simple if looked at from this point of view. Why

complicate matters? Why bring in the shaiva darshana (about which I

know nothing, to confess) particularly when you, Shriniwasji, has

reconciled advaita so beautifully with Thripurarahasya!? And please

don't call sat-chit-ananda a state even through oversight!

 

Pranams.

 

Madathil Nair

_______________________________

 

advaitin, "sgadkari2001" <sgadkari2001> wrote:

>

> sat-chit-ananda state is not addressed by this upanishad.

> (if it is, then I have missed it).

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "madathilnair" <madathilnair> wrote:

>Aum is not "sat" alone, as I have read in

> a subsequent comment, although 'sat' is chit and chit is ananda.

> Maandukya is very simple if looked at from this point of view. Why

> complicate matters? Why bring in the shaiva darshana (about which

I

> know nothing, to confess)

 

Namaste Shri MadathilnairJi,

 

I must differ on this point. Maandukya upanishad is not

a simple upanishad. It is packed with information. It

explores various aspects of Vedanta/Yoga. There have been

remarks on this list that Shri Ram told Shri Hanuman,

that this upanishad is the essence of other upanishads. This

fact by itself should single this upanishad out.

 

Would like to mention this quote of Einstein:

"Make things as simple as possible but no simpler".

 

Best regards

Shrinivas

[Guest guest]

Dear Profvk,

 

Someone seems to be missing the point here! You say "If Consciousness were

not present during sleep

how can you say now that I was 'conscious' of nothing?" This is precisely

the point I was making. I was not able to say 'I am conscious (of anything

or nothing)' whilst I was asleep. Only now, when I wake up, am I able to say

'I WAS conscious...' but this seems to be an inference. How am I able to

differentiate between situation A and B as follows?

 

A - I was conscious of a, b and c. Then I went to sleep and was conscious

but conscious of nothing. Then I woke up and was conscious of x, y and z.

 

B - I was conscious of a, b and c. Then I went to sleep and consciousness

ceased to exist. Then I woke up and was conscious of x, y and z. Of course,

I also remember a, b and c but this could simply be the 'new' consciousness

accessing the old memories.

 

Clearly the experience (for want of any other word, accepting that

experience really needs an object on order to be worthy of the name) of

samadhi in deep meditation is not the same as the experience of deep sleep.

To 'explain' this by saying that consciousness is 'covered over by

ignorance' is not really any explanation at all.

 

Dear Michael,

 

Congratulations again on an entertaining post!

 

First of all, I think your reference to the Gita quotation is a red herring.

My understanding of this is as follows:

 

"What is night to all beings, therein the self-controlled one is awake.

Where all beings are awake, that is the night of the Sage who sees." Here,

what is being said is that ordinary people live amongst the illusory world

of the senses, believing it all to be real - that is their 'day'. To them,

reality is 'night' and their vision is totally useless here. One who has

turned away from the senses and 'shaken off the sleep of avidya', as

Shankara puts it, is completely awake and the night-time of reality is like

day to him. Conversely, the world of transience and mere appearance is now

like night-time to him since it is a state of ignorance.

 

I agree that we cannot establish the nature of consciousness through mind or

intellect, using the artifices of the waking state. I can also agree with

your statement "Every state of consciousness is saturated with

self-awareness so no inference is required to establish the Self." except

that I could argue (as above) that, as far as I am aware now, there was no

consciousness whilst I slept. Also, the statement looks like it could be a

tautology - 'Every state of consciousness is saturated with consciousness'.

 

You say: "Because the statement 'I was asleep and slept soundly' can only

truthfully be uttered in the waking state does not mean that an inference is

being made any more than 'I am looking at this tree' is an inference from

some sort of inner sensation." But surely this is exactly what it is (a la

Berkeley) - the only indication that there are any external objects comes

from my entirely internal sense perceptions. (I known you said that you did

not want to talk about subjective idealism but you made the analogy.)

 

You go on to say: "If you believe in a substantive self and you apply the

rule of identity, that the same thing cannot have two beginnings in time,

then the Self did not cease to be and revive with my awakening." But

pragmatically I do not know that the self I am aware of now is the same one

that I seem to recall the last time that I was awake. Ignoring my belief in

Advaita for the moment, it could be the case that there is an endless supply

of new selves, each being born with waking-up and dying with deep sleep. The

sense of continuity is an illusion arising from access to a common database

of memories.

 

I liked your comparison of the wood chip-mirror metaphor with Brazilian

football tactics (though I haven't seen any of their games to really

appreciate it). The Nasrudin story was excellent though - I must remember

this! It seems to miss the point I am making above, however. Whichever set

of memories consciousness identifies with on waking, 'I' will believe myself

to be that 'person'. There would never be any reason to start looking around

for balloons, even if I really did wake up as 'someone else'.

 

Dear Sadananda,

 

Thanks for your corroborative statement: "Hence from the waker's mind point

any conclusions that can be arrived at can only be inferential... - whether

I was there in the deep sleep state or not is unresolvable and hence I

consider it is an indeterminate problem". I accept that the scriptures

provide an answer but (despite the fact that I agree about its being

irresolvable at the level of logic) I think this discussion is attempting to

do just that. Even given the premise that Consciousness has always existed

and cannot cease to exist or be reborn, a scenario could still be devised to

account for the observed phenomena couldn't it? Namely that (the single)

Consciousness exists in each one of us for nanoseconds at a time, flitting

from one to another with inconceivable rapidity - except for the time when a

particular individual is in deep sleep, when it can then ignore him for the

duration and concentrate on the rest of humanity who are still awake or

dreaming. This is not, please note, a serious suggestion - just playing

devil's advocate.

 

Regards to all,

 

Dennis

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

advaitin, "Dennis Waite" <dwaite@d...> wrote:

_______

> First of all, I think your reference to the Gita quotation is a red

herring.

> My understanding of this is as follows:

>

> "What is night to all beings, therein the self-controlled one is

awake.

> Where all beings are awake, that is the night of the Sage who

sees." Here,

> what is being said is that ordinary people live amongst the

illusory world

> of the senses, believing it all to be real - that is their 'day'.

To them,

> reality is 'night' and their vision is totally useless here. One

who has

> turned away from the senses and 'shaken off the sleep of avidya', as

> Shankara puts it, is completely awake and the night-time of reality

is like

> day to him. Conversely, the world of transience and mere appearance

is now

> like night-time to him since it is a state of ignorance.

_______

 

(I am very very happy you said this. This verse has recently been

misquoted several times to substantiate imagined meanings.)

_______

 

 

Even given the premise that Consciousness has always existed

> and cannot cease to exist or be reborn, a scenario could still be

devised to

> account for the observed phenomena couldn't it? Namely that (the

single)

> Consciousness exists in each one of us for nanoseconds at a time,

flitting

> from one to another with inconceivable rapidity - except for the

time when a

> particular individual is in deep sleep, when it can then ignore him

for the

> duration and concentrate on the rest of humanity who are still

awake or

> dreaming.

________

 

Since "I" am the one and only subject and the rest objects, any

advaitic explanation should necessarily be subjective. Your

collective scenario can, therefore, derail our quest.

________

 

Pranams.

 

Madathil Nair