Guest guest Posted June 7, 2002 Report Share Posted June 7, 2002 Col writes- >>Around the age of 6, the natural radiance & joy that children display begins to be dulled as they learn to start trying to become .. to become what others tell them to seek to be (without honouring what is already present). It is very sad. Children have so much they can teach the rest of us.<< Much of the same might be said of adult members of certain "pristine cultures," and to some extent, but to a lesser degree, to those living in what some call "folk cultures." Here one thinks of a difference between the innocence of the child, imbued with so much curiosity, in distinction from the innocence of fortunate aged persons, containing in some circumstances much wisdom and insight. The innocence regained by the aged person, when it happens, I am tempted to think is triggered in some circumstances by a realization of how mysterious existence really is — after having "outgrown" perhaps many of the learned spiritual categories of their younger days — followed by a relaxation of their mind into a more mellowed state (so to speak). So if a person's state in the afterlife is for the most part determined by how developed their "sattvic" state is, as some think (not including of course those who have achieved moksha), then one thinks much of that achievement may regained in a general way in this life -- although not in particulars, as now and then found where "innocence is regained." For instance, among the Nahau and Maya of Mesoamerica, the descent of the soul at birth to this world is believed to be from the 13th heaven, symbolic perhaps of what on this List might pass for their highest sattvic state, levels which are actually relative to each person. This is further evidenced by the 13th level, or plane, being represented by them by the solar zenith (e.g. June 21st), and in the larger sense by locating it and centering it among the cosmos. Here one recalls the Hindu Hiranya-garbha (the Golden Womb) concept, which some see as a kind of "cosmic umbilicus" taken metaphorically, and at times is thought to severed, as when our ties to our higher Self seems lost or broken. Sorry for getting so off track the main points of the "Deep Sleep State" discussion! -Capanelli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2002 Report Share Posted June 7, 2002 advaitin, "capanellius" <capanellius> Hi .. wrote: > Col writes- > >>Around the age of 6, the natural radiance & joy that children > display > begins to be dulled as they learn to start trying to become .. to > become what others tell them to seek to be (without honouring what is > already present). It is very sad. Children have so much they can > teach the rest of us.<< > > Much of the same might be said of adult members of certain "pristine > cultures," and to some extent, but to a lesser degree, to those > living in what some call "folk cultures." Oh, what an interesting line of thinking you are opening > > Here one thinks of a difference between the innocence of the child, > imbued with so much curiosity, in distinction from the innocence of > fortunate aged persons, containing in some circumstances much wisdom > and insight. The innocence regained by the aged person, when it > happens, I am tempted to think is triggered in some circumstances by > a realization of how mysterious existence really is — after > having "outgrown" perhaps many of the learned spiritual categories > of their younger days — followed by a relaxation of their mind into a > more mellowed state (so to speak). This makes me think of happy grandaddies & grandmummies, who maybe, see their own youthful innocence reflected in their young grandchildren. When you mention 'pristine cultures' I am not sure what you mean. When you mention folk cultures I think of people more in touch with their instinctual & earth based energies; & who perhaps rely on myths & dream study to help transformation & growth of consciousness. > Sorry for getting so off track the main points of the "Deep Sleep > State" discussion! > > -Capanelli Perhaps we can think of the loss of innocence, as a sleep in the waking state. Col Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2002 Report Share Posted June 7, 2002 This is not that far off track at all! There is a famous verse in the Bhagavadgita - 2:69 "What is night to all beings, therein the self-controlled one is awake. Where all beings are awake, that is the night of the sage who sees." Jnaneshvara calls such 'one of steady wisdom' [sthira-buddhi or sthita-praj~na]. Regards, Sunder advaitin, "oceanwavejoy" <colette@b...> wrote: > advaitin, "capanellius" <capanellius> > > > > Sorry for getting so off track the main points of the "Deep Sleep > > State" discussion! > > > > -Capanelli > > Perhaps we can think of the loss of innocence, as a sleep in the > waking state. > > Col Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2002 Report Share Posted June 11, 2002 Sunder wrote: >>There is a famous verse in the Bhagavadgita - 2:69 "What is night to all beings, therein the self-controlled one is awake. Where all beings are awake, that is the night of the sage who sees."<< Thanks for the above quote, just now beginning to collect references to the Hiranya-garbha. Colette wrote: >>Perhaps we can think of the loss of innocence, as a sleep in the waking state.<< Just what I had in mind in this connection with "Hiranya-garbha." Thanks. Just come across a footnote of a commentator to Sankara's salutation to the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, who says that the word "Brahman" in that context refers to the Hiranya-garbha, or the Absolute manifested as the Cosmic mind, and further says this "Golden womb" is the origin [home] of the luminous ones, or devas. Suppose I got alot more to learn along this line. -Capanelli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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