Guest guest Posted June 21, 2002 Report Share Posted June 21, 2002 Namaste Dennis. Have a nice vacation. No problem with the first part of your post. About the latter half: When there is enjoyment, there is an enjoyer. What I meant is that both are in the "now". Enjoyment here does not mean "the act of sleeping" as you seem to imply. It is the sense of well-being experienced and attributed to 'sleep'. I said before that there is no past and, therefore, an actual act of sleeping. I didn't know Don Juan was discredited. Grateful if you can provide some more info on that. His thoughts, as presented by Castaneda, are nevertheless fascinating. I quoted him just to point out the brittleness of our normality. Have a nice time. Pranams. Madathil Nair _________ advaitin, "Dennis Waite" <dwaite@d...> wrote: > I really am going to have to call a halt to my involvement this time, at > least for the present - I'm off on holiday for the next week so will not be > able to read any further comments until Sun 30th. (Just when it was getting > interesting again!) > > Just like to reiterate - there is only now (the future futureless and the > past all deception as old T.S. said). Our memory presents us with present > thoughts which we interpret as representing a past - this process is what I > referred to as 'inference'. It applies just as much to the dream as to the > blank of deep sleep. It just seems more obvious to us that there was > something in the past in the case of the positive dream experience. > > Can't agree with your statement, Madathil, that "You are just experiencing > the sleep enjoyment in the 'now'". Enjoyment is a function of the ego which > was absent during the actual deep sleep experience. Although it is present > now, I am not asleep. And I don't accept any verification from Don Juan - I > understood this person had been thoroughly discredited. As I mentioned > before, though, I share your low opinion of science when it comes to matters > spiritual! > > Happy with Anand Natarajan's interjection: "Possibly, I am intruding, but I > cant help but exclaim, are we not categorizing "now" or the present in a > dream?" Our so-called waking state is certainly effectively another dream. > But I haven't yet discovered how to go consciously back to the state of > dreamlessness. > > Regards, > > Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2002 Report Share Posted June 22, 2002 Madathilnair wrote: -------------------------------- We are always samaadhi (I am deliberately avoding the preposition "in" or "at"). This is the "screen" in my earlier analogy. Awareness or Consciousness or Thuriya is just the same. One who discerns knows that it is always samaadhi, uninterruptedly so - whether one is dreaming or awake. In other words, samaadhi IS inspite of all waking and dream projections. The problem is that we have a tendency to take samaadhi as something that we enter and exit - something like a retiring room - and that samaadhi ceases when projections begin. That, in my humble opinion, is the root of all confusion. -- Kudos to you, madathilnairji, for these excellent words! I am reminded of the following profound sloka from Maitreyi Upanishad: saMSAnta-sarva-sankalpA yA SilAvad-avasthitiH / jAgran-nidrA-vinirmuktA sA svarUpa-sthitiH parA// Meaning, All mental projections and intentions eradicated, rid of both the states of sleeping and waking, that state of being like a statue, is the Natural State. praNAms to all advaitins Yours, profvk ===== Prof. V. Krishnamurthy My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/ You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site. - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2002 Report Share Posted June 22, 2002 Humble pranams. You make me feel like that old chemistry student of the sixties who used to await approbation from his professor. It may be the matter of ego. Let me have it, please. Thank you, indeed, very much, Professor, for your kind words. I am calling out from the wilderness like Earl Bertrand Russel in his autobiograby. It is a chastening feeling that at least somebody out there is listening. In normal circumstances, I would not have written this acknowledgement for fear of fattening our precious archives. However, now I am simply overwhelmed (truly 'stoned' (silavad) as in the shloka you quoted) and can't help writing this. Best of best regards. Madathil Nair ________________________ advaitin, "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk> wrote: > Madathilnair wrote: > > -------------------------------- > We are always samaadhi (I am deliberately avoding the > preposition "in" or "at"). This is the "screen" in my earlier > analogy. Awareness or Consciousness or Thuriya is just the same. One > who discerns knows that it is always samaadhi, uninterruptedly so - > whether one is dreaming or awake. In other words, samaadhi IS > inspite of all waking and dream projections. The problem is that we > have a tendency to take samaadhi as something that we enter and exit > - > something like a retiring room - and that samaadhi ceases when > projections begin. That, in my humble opinion, is the root of all > confusion. > -- > Kudos to you, madathilnairji, for these excellent words! I am > reminded of the following profound sloka from Maitreyi Upanishad: > saMSAnta-sarva-sankalpA yA SilAvad-avasthitiH / > jAgran-nidrA-vinirmuktA sA svarUpa-sthitiH parA// > > Meaning, All mental projections and intentions eradicated, rid of > both the states of sleeping and waking, that state of being like a > statue, is the Natural State. > > praNAms to all advaitins > Yours, profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2002 Report Share Posted June 22, 2002 Thanks Vioricaji, That was indeed a timely quote. Bhagwan said the truth so succinctly in his inimitable style. Let us now watch the "cinema" and not carried away with the pathos! Pranams. Madathil Nair _______________ advaitin, "viorica_weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote: > Question: > For one who has realised his Self, it is said that he will not have > the three states of wakefulness, dream and deep sleep. > Is that a fact? > > Sri Ramana Maharshi: > What makes you say that they do not have the three states? > In saying "I had a dream; I was in deep sleep; I am awake", > you must admit that you were there in all the three states. > That makes it clear that you were there all the time. If you > remain as you are now, you are in the wakeful state; this becomes > hidden in the dream state; and the dream state disappears when you > are in deep sleep. You were there then, you are there now, and you > are there all the times. The three states come and go, but you are > always there. It is like a cinema. The screen is always there but > several types of pictures appear on the screen and then disappear. > Nothing sticks to the screen. Similarly, you remain your own Self > in all the three states. If you know that, the three states will > not trouble you, just as the pictures that appear on the screen do > not stick to it. On the screen, you sometimes see a huge ocean > with endless waves; that disappears. Another time, you see fire > spreading all around; that too disappears. The screen is there on > both occasions. Did the screen get wet with the water or did it > get burned by the fire? Nothing affected the screen. In the same > way, the things that happen during the wakeful, dream and sleep > states do not affect you at all; you remain your own Self. > > Question: > Does that mean that, although people have all three states of > consciousness – wakefulness, dream and deep sleep – these do not > affect them? > > > Maharshi: Yes, that is it. All these states come and go. > The Self is not bothered; it has only one state. > > from Be As You Are , David Godman > > -------------------------------- > > We are always samaadhi (I am deliberately avoding the > > preposition "in" or "at"). This is the "screen" in my earlier > > analogy. Awareness or Consciousness or Thuriya is just the same. > One > > who discerns knows that it is always samaadhi, uninterruptedly so - > > > whether one is dreaming or awake. In other words, samaadhi IS > > inspite of all waking and dream projections. The problem is that > we > > have a tendency to take samaadhi as something that we enter and > exit > > - > > something like a retiring room - and that samaadhi ceases when > > projections begin. That, in my humble opinion, is the root of > all > > confusion. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2002 Report Share Posted June 24, 2002 --\ ------------ The problem is that we > have a tendency to take samaadhi as something that we enter and exit > - > something like a retiring room - and that samaadhi ceases when > projections begin. That, in my humble opinion, is the root of all > confusion. > ------------------------------ This is precisely when we should pause and think about "TIME". What really ends and what really begins and when do these activities occur? According to Shankara (In his Aparoksha anubhyti)-Time IS Brahman.It is in Time that the Jagrud ,Swapna and Sushupti Awasthas exist. So, what difference does it make to you if you are awake and kicking or dreaming to glory or are unknown to yourself ,(in Bliss) in Deep Sleep -- in this Vayavaharika samsara ? Let us strive to be always in our natural state of "Kalaaateeta". Hari Om! Swaminarayan Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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